What are some new or reddit features that you think will improve Lemmy, and what are the things that you don’t want to lay your eyes upon ever?

@Aiwendil
141M

I like reddit’s multi–whatever, sorry, no clue about the exact terminology: The ability to group several communities in one view. If this is possible right now I can’t figure out how. Would be really nice if I could have in addition to “Subscribed”, “All” and “local” some dropdown that lets me select my own grouped communities. So that I can create a “Development” group with that shows me posts from general programming, python, linux-dev, another group for some linux new related communities and maybe one for entertainment for programmer humor and Pepper&Carrot ;)

poVoq
151M

XMPP account linking in your profile, like already available for Matrix. I guess a more system independent solution would be best.

soronixa
creator
151M

My own thoughts:

I think default communities for each instance can really help to keep the culture of each instance unique. It can really help as we go forward and more people join Lemmy, for example the current atmosphere is centered around privacy, anti-capitalism, FOSS and other things and I think the longer it stays that way, the better.

Another reddit feature that I think will help Lemmy should be user flairs, both global and sub-specific. For example I think flairs like ‘Lemmy Developer’, as a global one and ‘former moderator’ as a community specific one would be good.

Other reddit features that I’d like to see in Lemmy are multi-reddits, and wikis.

Something I’m not sure about is awards. On one hand they can help the admins with cost of server maintanace, and on the other hand they seem a bit extra and unnecessary.

Something I don’t want to see is a karma-based economy. I think we cam have better ways of recognising those who have contributed to community, for example we can give someone who has helped people on some community like linuxquestions or other support communities a custom flair.

Another thing I don’t want to see ever is content that is just designed to attract attention and get people hooked, or content for the sake of upvotes or things like that.

What are your thoughts?

the last two things go hand-in-hand. i never want to see a karma-like system because that would incite people to post just for karma. the content on here is very high-quality, and i think that’s thanks to the lack of karma; your total upvotes are never displayed publicly, so what does it matter if your post doesn’t appeal to the lowest common denominator?

@jelbana
21M

I agree with wikis for each community. Those are very useful over on reddit.

aaaaaaaaaaaaa
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deleted by creator

I like that a lot of you agree in not seeing karma in Lemmy.

Azure
121M

Either a front-end that works under w3m/lynx/other non-IavaScript browsers OR a nice, keyboard oriented client, whether actually text mode or just with a similar feel.

Instead of the ability to link ones Matrix identity, Service, Identity pairs so you can link matrix, mastoromasskey, blog…

@Echedenyan
21M

I like your first parragraph.

The second has an issue. If I remember, the main identity server used in the Matrix network (the one for modular.im hosted servers and matrix.org server) is non-Libre.

Azure
1
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I think I must have misphrased. I was just hoping to be able to add XMPP, blog, IRC username on a network, etc. etc. etc. to the profile instead of JUST matrix.

@Echedenyan
11M

Oh sorry, I read the second parragraph partially and focused in addressing an issue with the Matrix identity instead of the rest.

you could even extend it further and allow any sort of key-value pair like Mastodon.

@AgreeableLandscape
admin
9
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1M

I think merging similar federated communities would be nice. I know the head devs don’t like this idea, but IMO I politely disagree and really think it would be helpful with organization of topics.

@nutomic
admin
81M

Its not that we dont like the idea, but simply that it doesnt make much sense from a technical perspective.

@gun
8
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1M

That I don’t want to see? Stories. Or TikTok style shorts. Can you imagine? Seems like every social media site is copying these lately.
Edit: I would like to see Lemmy remember my sorting preferences though.

@k_o_t
admin
91M

stories in vscode when? 🙃

@FCKDRM1111
224d

What a time to be alive lol

@nutomic
admin
7
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1M

But a cryptocurrency is definitely a good idea, right? right??

You can set your preferred sorting method in the user settings (or are you saying that this isnt working?)

@gun
61M

LemmyCoin 🤔

Oh I didn’t realize I could set the default sorting in the setting. I changed it now. I guess I just expected it to save whatever you last used like Reddit does.

@nutomic
admin
101M

We can store your sort preference in the blockchain!

@tracyspcy
31M

Hope it is joke :)

@k_o_t
admin
21M

the lines are unfortunately blurring :/

@tracyspcy
31M

the lines are unfortunately blurring :/

you definitely made it more clear

@k_o_t
admin
41M

always happy to help 🤗

@TheAnonymouseJoker
1
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uhh

Keep playing along duh

Hail crypto ヽ(・∀・)ノ ✅

@seahorse
21M

MarxCoin

jonuno
1
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1M

Id like to see a debate on this to weight the pros and cons. For instance the monetisation of attention (and in this case, quality contributions) is something that appeals to me but I’d like to contest my view points and see why do you think it’s inherently bad

@tronk
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Lemmy has amazing potential, but I worry two threats could hamper it: a small size and vague/nonexistent values.

A small community limits its potential for good ideas. I’ve described why here. In summary, we need a dense and malleable network for good ideas to flourish. Lemmy, by design is malleable, but it may not necessarily be dense.

As to values, vague values lead to individual rumination and communal discussions without direction. To avoid that, values need to be clear, explicit, and reinforced.

In a sec I’ll try to explain my thought process behind these worries, their potential solutions, and how that translates into features.

Wise Nudges that Reinforce the Sense of how Alive Lemmy Is

I like the fact that I can see updates in real time of other posts being made. This creates the impression (or, if you’re less of a phenomenologist and more of a positivist, “emphasizes the reality”) that this website is alive. I think features like this, that show how active this community is, can somehow make up for the fact that it isn’t nearly as massive as Reddit.

Yes, there are people who say the small numbers are a good thing, but a dead community isn’t. While in reality it is an alive community, we have to see it to believe it. I mean getting a gut sense that this place is alive.

That sense is conveyed through the already-existing real-time updates of posts, community statistics (under certain circumstances), and trending communities/posts.

I say community statistics only reinforce aliveness under certain circumstances because seeing 0 users per week is quite discouraging for a community. I wonder if there are non-deceptive ways of emphasizing that a community is growing. Maybe seeing users who recently posted or a couple of selected posts? Heck, this also makes me think of (take out your crucifixes) Stories: while they may be annoying because they show things that we don’t value, they do convey the sense of activity. I’m not married to them, but they serve a purpose. Also, I’m speaking without really knowing what would be the best ways of conveying life and inviting participation. Perhaps reading some Nudge could help. Or some Switch

But we’d Sell Out and/or Degrade Content!

I see this proposal being responded to with two objections: One is related to ‘selling out’ to methods of deception. Another one is regarding the quality of content.

As to selling out, it isn’t immediately clear to me that deliberately choosing which facets of oneself to show is problematic. This is certainly the case if you’re under oath at a trial. Even then, most of us would choose to be our ‘pensive’, ‘frank’ and ‘reverential’ selves. Choosing which selves we are is something we do all the time. But if done (1) with clarity regarding Lemmy’s values, (2) through wise nudges, and (3) for the purposes of making Lemmy a thriving community, the worries about (1) being duplicitous and (2) falling prey to the market’s discourse regarding what a ‘business’ has to do to keep afloat, largely subside.

As to the related objection, that the quality of content would decrease if we ‘get people hooked’, this is not necessarily true and also not necessarily a problem. It’s not true because, again, if users have clarity regarding the values and norms of this place, the vast majority of the content will abide by those values and norms. But also, I am a human, not a robot philosopher-programmer-privacyEnthusiast-politicalBeing. I like dank memes. I like silly jokes. I’d absolutely hate Lemmy if it was a place where I’d always have to pretend to be poised. Instead, I can sometimes laugh at silly memes or talk about my favorite TV shows —you know, be human! In community! With smart, principled, and funny people!

Clarity of Values that Orient us All towards Democracy and how to Convey them

But we shouldn’t only think in terms of not selling out or not degrading content. Avoiding things leads to overthinking if we don’t have things to look forward to. We need a vision as to what we want.

I suggest Lemmy is a place where democratic principles can be enacted through open source and federation. This implies that we want to create the conditions for such a democracy, which are: (1) access to Lemmy, (2a) explanations or resources to learn, which is part but separate to (2b) a sense of belonging, and (3) fair and consistent moderation. These guarantee that people can effectively participate, at (1) a technical level, (2) at a cognitive and affective level, and (3) at an institutional level.

I think Nutomic and Dessalines have been stellar at making Lemmy technically accessible. They’ve also been incredibly generous at letting us know what’s happening, or giving us cognitive resources. Through the norms that come with FLOSS communities, I’ve gathered a sense of belonging too! The public modlog is part of the sense of fair and consistent moderation. Those are all there.

That is the big picture, the goal: orienting us all towards reinforcing anti-intolerant-discourse and its flip-side, inclusion.

But I wonder if a stronger sense of the democratic values that we all hold is possible. Could it be done through a minimal manifesto? One that simply states “We recognize freedom depends on (1) resources, (2) education, and (3) institutional enforcement. Therefore, we are committed to making Lemmy (1) FLOSS, open-government, and efficient; (2) a place with a culture of thinking, teaching, and visible learning; (3) swift and fair moderation, with a strong anti-intolerant-discourse stance.”

Of course this is not a set-in stone proposal. But I think the emphasis on democratic principles is important, because it does not prescribe a particular political belief outside of those that are necessary to maintain democratic principles. So, for example, white supremacists would be clearly not welcome here. But again, this is not about distancing oneself from bad things. Rather, it’s about being explicit about the vision of the future of Lemmy.

My mini-manifesto is just a tool to make that vision shared among all of us. Another option is to take inspiration from Project Eunomia, which was researching how changing UIs could help reduce misinformation. Or, you know how on Reddit there’s this “Starting a post with ‘upvote if’ is against intergalactic law”? What would be the equivalent towards reinforcing the values of democracy? These are all ideas on how to reinforce democratic principles.

A Conclusion, I guess…

I tried to lay out why (1) having more people here, (2) having silly posts, (3) and making Lemmy explicitly about democracy will make it better. I presented it in a sort of philosophical-principle-y way. But I also suggested some ways of making those principles tangible. Those ways are not at all set in stone. My point is to be clear about our visions. Which tools we use and how should follow that.

If there is a single thing that I’d like to convey, it’s that:

TL;DR: The benefits of having us all see that this community values and reinforces democracy are immense. We should find ways of conveying that to everyone, so that awful people aren’t enticed to be here (since we are anti intolerant-discourse), so that Lemmy never falls prey to the closed-source switch of Reddit, so that we get a sense of belonging, and so that we (and newcomers) participate more, abiding by the democratic principles of Lemmy.

@tracyspcy
41M

Lemmy merch would be nice!

@nutomic
admin
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We are just programmers and dont know anything about that. But maybe you or someone else from the community could work on it.

@tracyspcy
41M

same here 😂

@TheAnonymouseJoker
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  • Being able to report users in DMs and publicly
  • The system devised for users to get voting and post creation rights, to prevent trolling, raiding, sockpuppets and and brigading of that sort agsin
@snackwifi
11M

orangered upvotes.

@techlord2488
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soronixa
creator
121M

That’s an interesting point. Maybe we should try to deliberately make it hard for people to get addicted to Lemmy? I think the lack of karma deals with that but maybe there’s more we can do. And since there are no ads, there shouldn’t be a problem with creepy algorithms trying to get people addicted.

@ajz
71M

Indeed. https://lemmy.ml/post/60819 - “Again, Twitter’s interface was very intentionally designed to maximize the amount of time per day a person spends online. The Fediverse really doesn’t need that, but it has it anyway…”

soronixa
creator
21M

Turning individuals into ad-watching and addicted consumers. How this is legal is beyond me. Thanks for the link!

@nutomic
admin
61M

We had a thread on this topic a while back, maybe you can find it via search.

soronixa
creator
51M

Refreshing to see developers concerned with the ethics of their product and how it affects users. thank you.

@soferman
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deleted by creator

Dessalines
admin
71M

There’s reporting mostly done in the back end ( that needs to be tweaked a little ) but we haven’t built a UI for it yet.

@soferman
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deleted by creator

@DixiE
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deleted by creator

@Nevar
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deleted by creator

@nutomic
admin
121M

I like the idea, but a big problem is that few users can easily create many sockpuppet accounts, and get more influence than they deserve.

@wiki_me
31M

the openstreetmap foundation , American Association for the Advancement of Science, and the python software foundation allow anyone to vote for the board of directors, they take membership fees which reduces some of the risk, IIRC someone tried to game the election for openstreetmap but they caught it, maybe we can learn some of there procedures to prevent this from happening.

@nutomic
admin
41M

That is a possible solution, but it has its own problems. Making it dependent on money means that mainly people from the middle class in Europe, North America and a few other countries will be able to participate democratically. But poor people from the same countries, and most people from the global south will be unable to pay these fees.

@wiki_me
31M

You could also open membership to people who actively contribute to lemmy, say moderators and testers, also could have country specific fees (say attached to the median salary of the country of the one trying to join).

Wikipedia also has elections and needs a certain number of edits to qualify for a vote (and to be on wikipedia at least three months i think), maybe a similar requirements could be made so a user has to submit a certain amount of content (only to active communities where if it is a bot someone will probably notice).

@nutomic
admin
41M

Its definitely a complicated topic, but also an important one. I think for now such a coop is not necessary, because it is still easy for a single person to follow all the discussions. That will change if Lemmy keeps growing, and then such a democratic process would be very important to have. So its good that you being this up now, because we can discuss it without being in a hurry.

In general I think there are many possible solutions all with their own pros and cons, and many questions to be answered first. So it would be useful if you create a separate thread concerning a democratic participation in Lemmy, where we could discuss it in more depth.

@wiki_me
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I opened a thread here, btw it’s a bit harder to follow long discussions on lemmy, you have to keep “hunting” for new comments (unless they were direct replies to what you said), nothing beats email and RSS when it comes to long discussions (clicking to mark message as read, and even the ability to mark as unread).

@Nevar
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