The alt social media are a good place to run away from algorithms and explicit mass manipulation from other big tech, be more free, independent, and spread ideas, but I also think that the fediverse is being filling with people with radical political ideologies, some kicked out of traditional social platforms for this same reason. I’m not saying that we can’t have discussions, but I think that many people are making their own echo Chambers in the fediverse.

@TheConquestOfBed
link
243M

Fedi attracts anarchists, socialists, and communists because the administrative style is one of community responsibility, personal safety, and a more active system where you get out what you put in. Fedi mods are often pretty responsive and most of them are chill knowledgable people with leftist tendencies, so like attracts like. But in order to feel comfortable in a fedi space you have to research your server, communicate regularly with local users, stay on top of blocks, and get to know the meta a bit.

Liberals like mainstream services like reddit/instagram/etc because they incentivise turning your brain off. After signing up, the system is designed to feed you content and only show you concerning ideas if they’re trying to bait you into ‘engagement’ as a kind of free advertising.

Fedi conflict is more similar to real life conflict where you see a lot of the same people all the time and sometimes have to figure out how to solve problems together. This is why things like mutual aid are common on mastodon. This is also why I think lemmy could have only been created by communists. You have to be commited to the slog for the good of your community.

Conservatives and fash, conversely, try to create social networks where no trust is involved. They make crypto-based apps, chan sites, and fedi forks where anonymity trumps all else, communication is only entertainment, and blocking is an annoyance because they would rather troll than feel the slightest bit of rejection.

@sharknadoes
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132M

Sure, as a radical, you can thrive in the fediverse, but what’s the alternative really? Censorship, catering to advertisers, closed systems… it’s your choice.

Kinetix
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122M

The fediverse isn’t really a special entity in this regard. By it’s very nature, the Internet itself can be used to build & operate silos of just about any sort, and people have been dreaming up ways to do so for quite some time.

Most of the fediverse platforms have ways of dealing with radicals, or dangerous people, misinformation spreaders, white supremacists, what have you, which are pretty effective, especially if administrators and moderators do their thing in bulk. There’s obviously some challenges where people put up their platform, allow everyone and their dog to use it, and then abandon managing it, leaving it to rot in the hands of spammers, criminals and low lifes.

On the whole, though, I don’t think “the fediverse” is necessarily making for a safe space for such nonsense - those types gets blocked, filtered, shunned, isolated, etc, just as moderation intended. If they’re criminal, they can be reported to their respective network, web and DNS service providers just like any other entity online.

@N0b3d
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123M

I don’t see being radical - thinking differently, behaving differently - as a bad thing per se. We don’t all want to plant bombs at the last night of the proms (sorry, Billy), or even hate people who don’t think/behave the way we do.

@SrEstegosaurio
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102M

Hmmm, I think that in the fediverse (as almost in any other place) radicals are a thing, but bc the community is in a smaller scale they make much more noise. And bc how the fediverse works they will be always able to create their own instance or whatever. It’s noot cool, but you can’t censor only “bad things”. Just make respect a rule for every interaction and all should be good.

@Miles
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92M

To be honest, I find alternative media platforms a little disappointing. Like it feels as if a platform doesn’t have a progressive code of conduct then it just becomes a hub for far-right politics, conspiracy theorists, and then some linux users who are like “it’s not just for neonazis! I’m here too!” when the majority of the content is the other things.

This isn’t necessarily a criticism of federated services, I mean Lemmy doesn’t have that specific issue and I haven’t used mastodon that much but as far as I’m aware it doesn’t really have this problem either, so maybe there’s something specifically about federation or the communities behind federated software that creates specific outcomes?

In general, I just wish the left would adopt more of these platform, it seems like most leftists have become very comfortable on mainstream platforms because most of our social views are in line with the tech companies behind these platforms (which isn’t a bad thing of course), and we don’t really have the influence/organization to threaten them where we disagree.

Also what’s meant by echo chamber? I don’t really like the term that much because it’s often pretty vague and reduces human experiences to just their interaction on a specific platform. For instance, a place that’s only for socialists isn’t necessarily an echo chamber. For one, there’s a lot of internal variety there and also when you live in a world that’s predominately capitalist you’re inevitably going to be exposed to and have to interact with capitalism supports and capitalist ideas.

@freely
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52M

An echo chamber is a “safe space” where, in general, no one disagrees with some core idea/ideology. Thus with no differing opinion, people build on each other and strengthen their opinion that they are right.

Example: a nazi forum. Only nazis are allowed, anyone else gets banned. This removes the mere thought they could be wrong, and makes its nazi members more emboldened.

The same thing happens for all crap online - communists, leftists, white suppremists, pedophiles, dog fighters, BSD evangelists, whatever. Whether you are “right” isn’t important, just removing any alternatives closes off your mind to the possibility of more.

TLDR: groupthink bubbles bad. Interacting with people of differing opinions is good. It’s how we grow as people.

@SrEstegosaurio
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32M

Compleatly agree! We need to be exposed to different opinions and ideas.

@Seb3thehacker
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93M

Anything that isn’t moderated can be and “is”. Its not our responsibility to make sure people aren’t breaking the law. Hopefully that won’t happen on Lemmy but at some point it probably will. Its a double edged sword. Lemmy is meant to be used for good but will inevitably be used for “evil”. There’s not much we can do to stop it

Kinetix
link
02M

I fully consider unsolicited commercial advertising illegal (it’s theft of resources, if nothing else), and it’s happening on Lemmy plenty.

Not sure where one comes to the conclusion that there’s not much we can do to stop it. There’s varying levels of responsibility around managing an online service, and there is much that one has to do to keep on top of it, lest their instance turns in to a cesspool and blocked out of existence.

@hendrik
link
72M

That’s the problem with freedom. But it’s the wrong thing to restrict freedom for everyone in order to accommodate for such people. In a democracy you also put up with right, extreme and or stupid people. and for a good reason. I believe the correct way to handle this is to moderate, write good tools to assist with moderation, block them / don’t federate with these instances. But it’s probably alarming that alternative platforms could be associated with those people.

@pinknoise
link
22M

In a democracy you also put up with right, extreme and or stupid people

Personal freedom stops where everybody elses freedom begins. Extremists don’t have a place in a (modern) democracy as soon as they try to hurt other peoples freedom that doesn’t infringe on theirs in any way. Same sex marriage opposition, racial segregation, anti-secularism, etc. are not to be “put up” with. They are not democratic in any way shape or form, even if they claim to be and even if they are in the majority.

But it’s probably alarming that alternative platforms could be associated with those people.

For some reason fediverse stuff (esp mastodon) has in-your-face branding that can only be replaced by editing templates. So instances are automatically associated with the project. Nobody would associate a specific forum software with an instance of it because they usually restrict the branding to the footer and let admins edit the theme from the control panel at least a little bit.

@aronkvh
link
72M

Sadly I kinda aggree. Many people don’t like censorship, but many don’t really care , they just got banned somewhere else and they move to a Free platform- and here they’ll be much more % of all ‘normal’ users, meaning for us who don’t share their often ‘extremist views’ it won’t be so nice content on Lemmy and they’ll abandon it sooner and even more % of all users will be ‘them’.

@X51
link
43M

It’s rando,m. It’s what the internet was in the late 90’s.

Evan
mod
link
23M

is rando,m an acronym or a misspelling of random?

@X51
link
42M

“,” is next to “m” on the keyboard. I’ll let you guess.

Evan
mod
link
12M

Fair point

@OsrsNeedsF2P
mod
link
33M

deliberat,e

@Slatlun
link
33M

I always thought it stood for “It’s rando, m’friend.”

@LemonWedge
link
32M

I quite hope not. Although I lean left and socio-liberal I come to social platforms such as Lemmy to take a break from the usual politics.

Sandro Linux
link
32M

Yes but it is because here is a safe space where you can share your ideas no matter what they are

Kinetix
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42M

No, no you can’t. That suggests there’s no policies dictating what’s acceptable or not on the platform, which there definitely are.

@SrEstegosaurio
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52M

One of the cool things about the fedi is that if you do not like the COC or the Privacy Policy of some instance, you can always try to find another or just host your own one. :)

Kinetix
link
32M

Were you downvoted? That seems odd, since you’re absolutely correct.

Support Trans People
banned
link
-112M

yes, “free/libre” software usually attracts nazis, especially gpl licenses. that’s why lemmy should start using an ethical open source license and get serious about getting rid of right-wingers

Kinetix
link
82M

facepalm There’s GPL code in just about every technology you use, and it has nothing to do with the type of person that uses it. Do you think most people understand or care what licenses are being used in the online platforms they use? It really has nothing to do with OPs question.

Support Trans People
banned
link
-72M

reddit is gpl licensed and is one of the most bigoted social media out there

@Echedenyan
link
52M

Reddit was*

Reddit freed it and then closed it again.

Kinetix
link
32M

reddit is not everything… what’s your point? Again, GPL is used in software all over the place. It has nothing to do with the sort of community that develops around an online service.

It’s like saying the brand of motor oil you choose makes you a good driver or not.

Support Trans People
banned
link
-62M

the license is what makes open source (ethical source included) what it is, using a license that doesn’t allow bad people to use your software is a basic human right

Kinetix
link
62M

You have typed out some words but haven’t organized them in a fashion that makes sense. You’re trying to make some point about code licenses in a discussion about communities and certain types of people.

Also, you seem to be completely misinformed on random tidbits you’re throwing out there. At what point was Reddit ever GPL? Prove it.

Support Trans People
banned
link
-72M

can’t find the proper repo but here is something: https://github.com/reddit-archive/reddit

reddit being open source but not ethical source lead to people making their own reddit to spread even more bigoted ideas, thankfully reddit is closed source nowadays

Kinetix
link
52M

Yes, I know where their code repos, including their archived ones, are. Not GPL.

It would be interesting to see if you can explain how you make a connection between software license and bigoted ideas of end users of products.

Support Trans People
banned
link
-82M

people using software made by fascists are fascists themselves, if you can’t see that, leave

Kinetix
link
72M

a) What makes the software developers fascists? b) Do you research the licenses in all of the products you use that have software? Do you know no fascists were involved in the making of those products & services? c) What authority do you have to tell people to leave? You’ve done nothing but blather a bunch of falsehoods and want people to agree or piss off? Not happening.

Support Trans People
banned
link
-72M

i don’t like to argue with nazis because that validates them but i’ll take the time to answer yours questions

What makes the software developers fascists?

they have bigoted beliefs (hating trans people, bipocs and such)

Do you research the licenses in all of the products you use that have software?

essentially yes, i do still use “free/libre” software but i try to use ethical source software whenever i can

Do you know no fascists were involved in the making of those products & services?

not necessarily, that’s why it’s important check. go though the devs/maintainers twitter is usually the best way to find if they are bigots or not (not having a twitter is obviously a big red flag)

What authority do you have to tell people to leave?

fascists are the lowest of the lowest, anyone has the authority to tell them to leave

Kinetix
link
42M

OK, you are unfortunately down some very dark roads and are now violating code of conduct by being so extremist. There’s no conversation to be had with you. I hope you get the mental health attention you so clearly require.

@vis4valentine
creator
link
52M

In fact, this user was one of the reasons why i made this post. They’re too far lost into the extreme left, invalidated my experience surviving human rights violation just because they say that there are not hr violations in my country according to they, and everything they don’t like is a Nazi. That is one example on the left, just imagine what happens on gab for example wich is an actual echo chamber for literal Nazis.

Kinetix
link
42M

Yeah, I’m sorry to hear about your experience with them, and I don’t think they have a safe space here.

Gab is a good example of the fediverse kicking the garbage out - they used to federate, but got pretty whiny when everyone defederated them.

@vis4valentine
creator
link
42M

Ive heard about that, mostly I’ve heard Tim pool whining about that (wich was very funny). Thanks. Feels bad to talk about when police kidnapped me for absolutely nothing, and some random person the internet tells you “No, didnt happen lol”

@Brattea
link
32M

While I understand this user was being inflammatory and gross, “I hope you get the mental health attention you so clearly require.” Is not the best way to tell someone they need help. Not saying you are wrong about the user though.

Support Trans People
banned
link
-42M

yikes

@SrEstegosaurio
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1
edit-2
2M

If the code is not licensed under an ethical license, which I do not like, I’m a supporter of the FOSS movement, and I’m not nothing near as a Nazi/fascist/extremist. So you are literally saying that all devs that work on FOSS project (or anything not licensed under you non-free license) are fascist/Nazis who hate trans people? Okey, and fun fact ethical licenses are not free as in freedom, they are just open source. And about the people behind X project/code/etc I strongly disagree with every extreme idea and I do not support any kind of discrimination based on anything, I believe that respect is the way but sometimes we need to be mature enough to be able to separate the pice from the author, for example if Hitler paintings were amazingly made (I didn’t see it, I just using his name as an extreme example) you can’t say that his art suck, he can be a Nazi and you can always choose to not support it because ideological/moral reasons, but if he did a good work, he did it (again, this is an example).

And as a closing: Did you know that human rights can’t be denied unedr ANY circumstances? Yeah, you talk a lot about you licenses and that stuff. But a fun fact about the human rights is that you can be a miserable person and you always will have your human rights untouched, even the worst of the worst. And I agree that such extremisms of yours is reportable.

Support Trans People
banned
link
-42M

ethical licenses are not free as in freedom

that’s the point, freedom isn’t a good thing

@SrEstegosaurio
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1
edit-2
2M

So, what’s your solution? Just removing freedom and hoping that it does not end like 1984?

Support Trans People
banned
link
-22M

only right-wingers fear 1984

@SrEstegosaurio
link
02M

Bruh, have you read it?

Halce
link
72M

Not really. GPL is a left wing license. It literally enforces cooperation, and collaboration, which’re communal values, rather than individualism.

Support Trans People
banned
link
-132M

the gpl was created by richard stallman, a well known nazi, because of that it tends to attract like-minded people

@SrEstegosaurio
link
82M

Stallman? A nazi? Whatever, but what does it have to do with the GPL license? All GPL code is nazi in your POV or what?

Support Trans People
banned
link
-72M

the gpl was created by stallman and he believes the “free/libre” software movement to be an ethical movement, they have everything to do with each other

@SrEstegosaurio
link
12M

I can see how libre code can be considered ethic in some pov. But I do not know why? I mean, have you read the GPL? Idk in it terms and conditions it does not say anything about being fascit in order to use it.

@nutomic
admin
link
72M

I dont know if you are trolling or not, but either way you need to stop calling everyone nazi. You have been warned.

Support Trans People
banned
link
-62M

bigotry needs to be called out, the fight against hate never stops

@nutomic
admin
link
92M

Your trolling wont do anything against bigotry.

Support Trans People
banned
link
-72M

wrong, my efforts to combat hate have lead to many hateful subreddits being banned, i’m still not on the level of r/AgainstHateSubreddits moderators but i done quite a lot of activism (compiling subreddits for AHS helps a lot, definitely do that if you want to fight hate)

@nutomic
admin
link
10
edit-2
2M

compiling subreddits for AHS helps a lot, definitely do that if you want to fight hate)

That sounds useful, but trolling Lemmy and calling everyone you dislike a nazi is completely useless. If you dont stop it, you will get banned.

@SrEstegosaurio
link
42M

You can not pretend to go against hate hating every one. That’s not how all of this works. Hate will derive in more hate, the same goes with violence. We need to be respectful and open minded in order to fight against hate

@TheAnonymouseJoker
link
72M

Stallman is a Nazi? U WOT M8

@Brattea
link
02M

A toe jam eating pedo, yes. A nazi I dont think so.

@TheAnonymouseJoker
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2
edit-2
2M

Pedo accusation is too far. He did nothing like the adults that groom kids on Discord, and what he discussed was Romeo Juliet laws. One cannot call him a pedo for that.

Toe jam eater, yes. What I do not like him for is his ignorant views on the Xinjiang situation.

@Brattea
link
12M

Okay I know people think it’s below the belt very frequently, and I understand the desire to give people reasonable doubt. No one wants these allegations levied on them. So we expect a lot of evidence before such an accusation. I have listened to recordings of Richard talking about pedophilia I will not be able to produce for you here. However if you go to stallman.org go to the search bar and type in pedophilia go and read his writings. Go and read the redacted reports from the MIT public mailing list.

Mind you I’m not saying he abused children but he certainly has tried in the past to normalize sexual advances to minors.

This was a bit out of pocket though I was trying to be edgy. Another thing I would like to say is that pedophiles are not morally bankrupt by virtue of being pedophiles. They are morally at fault when they normalize touching children, they are morally at fault when they assault children.

Sorry this got a lot darker than it had to.

@TheAnonymouseJoker
link
22M

Yeah that is fair. Someday I will dig deeper and read a lot about it, as I have only ever skimmed through a fair share before. I have not been highly interested in him and his history, honestly, and just care about the Free Libre movements for software. I care more about the ideals here.

@SrEstegosaurio
link
52M

Open source is FAR worse than FOS Software. The ethical licenses are just crap as they removes a part of the user freedom to what ever they want with the software. I’m not any kind of extremist, I believe in respect as a code of conduct, not in over-complicated 2000 pages long codes of conduct.

Support Trans People
banned
link
-62M

open source is the future, freedom inevitably leads to fascism and must be stopped at all cost

@SrEstegosaurio
link
32M

So… What’s your proposal? “Limited freedom”? Your point is that freedom leads to fascim so let’s create an opresive, restricted society to do not have fascim?

Support Trans People
banned
link
-52M

yikes, go read on the paradox of tolerance and then come back

@SrEstegosaurio
link
1
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2M

You’re saying that this (far far uncomplte) list is all full of fascists? https://wikiless.org/wiki/List_of_free_and_open-source_software_packages

@Brattea
link
02M

This is interesting I like it. Fuck the haters. Although I think FOSS has a nazi problem, I don’t think it inherent to foss, just admins and moderators want to be reasonable by tolerating the unreasonable to have a bigger platform/reach. I also dont think lemmy never took it serious. I like the content of what you are preaching.

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