I didn’t say Linux isn’t better, I just said it’s definitely not easy enough for the average person.
But either way, it being a better daily driver is specific to your workflow. What about gaming? Audio production work? Livestreaming? Office work with the standard applications? Nah, Windows is better for those at least because of the software availability. Be nuanced.
AFAIK an average person uses MS Word and MS Excel at work. So GNU/Linux desktop may need to wait until people switch to Google Docs, which can be worse lock-in, but at least, it works on a GNU/Linux desktop.
What about gaming? Audio production work? Livestreaming? Office work with the standard applications?
I’m a bit suprised, because those are all things that work incredibly good. What really sucks from my experience is video editing, mechanical CAD and VR games.
Those too, but also can’t play some AAA games, use standard apps like Microsoft Excel, use a DAW besides bitwig, ardour, audacity. livestreaming, GoXLR and Elgato aren’t supported yet
How is that a “standard app”? There are hundreds of office suits, hundreds of databases and thousands of general purpose numerical computation programs used by professionals. This is just parroting Microsoft propaganda.
use a DAW besides bitwig, ardour, audacity.
Except Zrythm, LMMS, Reaper, Tracktion, ReNoise, Radium, Waveform, Mixbus (which is Ardour I guess) and a ton of interactive music programming systems.
GoXLR and Elgato aren’t supported yet
Both aren’t alone in their field. GoXLR is even only unsupported because of the incompetence of the manufacturer, had they used standard protocols not only would they work on Linux but also MacOS, Android and iOS. Older Elgato cards worked, but newer don’t seem to, but there is enough competition that does.
I agree with @poVoq@lemmy.ml
What a Linux desktop needs is a user, who’s able to think and who not assumes that it has to work the way he is used to from Windows. Many are simply unwilling to learn and therefore reject Linux.
I don’t think this is the problem. GNU/Linux desktop are more than capable to provide a Windows-like UX with KDE + AppImage.
The problem in my personal opinion is that there’s bugs everywhere. All desktops are written in memory-unsafe languages and keep on reinventing the same wheels over and over again, reintroducing subtle bugs.
oh boy … this “memory-unsafe”-argument again 🤦
Even with a Windows looking desktop UI and usage of AppImages, it’s still no Windows! There are no .exe-Files for drivers and games. There is no Microsoft account you need to login to. There is no “installer” who ask for the path you want to install your program.
What’s wrong with the argument that playing compiler in your head is both a waste of energy and a sure way to write bugs? Aren’t you tired of unexpected resource usage, stuff that should work that reaches hard-to-reproduce edge-cases, and kids bypassing your screensaver.
There are no .exe-Files for drivers and games.
Really? Then what is Wine/NDISWrapper for? I’ve used Windows games and drivers in the past on my GNU/Linux system, and some of them sure used .exe extension.
There is no Microsoft account you need to login to.
Isn’t that a good thing? Also many people still use older windows where cloud login doesn’t exist. Does that mean it’s not Windows?
There is no “installer” who ask for the path you want to install your program.
Yet GNU defined the standard –prefix to choose where to install your software (make --prefix/Program\ Files/foobar).
I mean sure there’s no equivalent of the registry, Aero/Metro UI toolkit, Cortana, or centralized Windows store (except on Ubuntu with snap). But who said we had to have the bad bits? ;)
appimage is easy for me now, but it took me forever 2 years ago to figure out that --no-sandbox addition needed and i still am annoyed that I often have a problem getting the icon on a menu or panel.
i think we should be open to criticism so that we can improve Linux and thereby starve the BigTech beast. If you have weeds in your garden, don’t make excuses for them, yank them out or allow them to grow in more appropriate places.
I’ve used AppImages a bunch but i’ve never heard about “–no-sandbox” so far. Do you know of apps that won’t run without it?
i still am annoyed that I often have a problem getting the icon on a menu or panel.
I’ve personally had good luck with AppImageLauncher in the past, but lately i just run apps from terminal. There’s also a bunch of other solutions. Let me know what worked for you :)
i think we should be open to criticism so that we can improve Linux and thereby starve the BigTech beast.
100% agree.
If you have weeds in your garden, don’t make excuses for them
Some weeds are really good for your garden’s ecosystem in fact, but that’s off-topic :)
Since electron was apgraded or fixed, that appendage is no longer needed. I read that all of those appimages were made using electron.
I did have AppImageLauncher and used it a first, but forgot about it. No longer have it.
The Linux Desktop (once installed) is ready for “normal” users and has been so for years
As someone who supports many novice GNU/Linux users, i think this is true, but there’s many papercuts along the way. Every desktop environment is broken in subtle ways: the closest to a stable/consistent whole i GNOME but even it sometimes has services eating up resources unexpectedly, and is hard for users to tweak (too much reliance on extensions for what should be basic settings which are much easier to discover for users).
I’m not saying Windows is better: on Windows the “basic” experience works well but as soon as you start installing software, stuff will break in random ways until you have to reinstall from scratch.
Since you say you support new linux users, presumably in learning how to use it, do you have any links or books you could point me to on how to begin? Even where to begin? I don’t even know what the hell a sudo is or why I would bash it, know what I mean lol? Point is I am tired of windows and want something secure and private that can run handbrake, torrent shit, use gimp, onionshare, and some other odds and ends, all of which I am preeeeeeety sure whonix can do, but I don’t know enough about linux to feel comfortable making the jump just yet. I want to install say, mint or something, on a FD with persistence like tails so I can dip my feet, but I am told it doesn’t work, so I am at a standstill currently and would appreciate any input, advice, or resources you could point me to, thank you in advance!
I personally recommend to get started with a distro like Debian/Ubuntu which has a big user base and solid foundations (and is newcomer friendly, not like Archlinux). I’ve also heard good things about Pop!OS lately but haven’t tried it. The Debian admin handbook (although not updated for the latest version) is very complete documentation although not exactly beginner-friendly. For beginner material unfortunately there’s so many things to untangle i wouldn’t know a good resource: just like for Windows/Mac the common pattern is to be introduced to the UX by someone more knowledgeable who can answer your question and guide you around.
All in all it’s very easy to get started but some specific things may be confusing or require more research. In particular, knowing what terms to search for can be the hard part. Don’t hesitate to ask around on here or other forums, people are usually very helpful :)
Oh also, Tails is a wonderful distro and for reading/writing stuff is perfect, but it’s not intended to be customized with any and all apps. Yes making a persistent storage is easy, but having everything setup for persistence (eg. apps) is much harder, and the fact that there are routing rules to prevent UDP trafic and route all TCP through tor doesn’t help, just like that “custom” apps have to be reinstalled on every login (usually automatically, but only for the happy case).
I’ve loaded two OSs onto them (for a Pi). If that is the same as mounting, then I had no problem. Didn’t try to run them, though. Perhaps people are confusing certain distros with all of Linux.
Works wonderfully well for me. Must be an issue either with the distro you’re using or with the reader itself, which isn’t compatible or doesn’t use standards somehow.
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Me too. I think Linux still has way too many usability issues for it to be mainstream right now, as well.
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I didn’t say Linux isn’t better, I just said it’s definitely not easy enough for the average person.
But either way, it being a better daily driver is specific to your workflow. What about gaming? Audio production work? Livestreaming? Office work with the standard applications? Nah, Windows is better for those at least because of the software availability. Be nuanced.
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AFAIK an average person uses MS Word and MS Excel at work. So GNU/Linux desktop may need to wait until people switch to Google Docs, which can be worse lock-in, but at least, it works on a GNU/Linux desktop.
I’m a bit suprised, because those are all things that work incredibly good. What really sucks from my experience is video editing, mechanical CAD and VR games.
Those too, but also can’t play some AAA games, use standard apps like Microsoft Excel, use a DAW besides bitwig, ardour, audacity. livestreaming, GoXLR and Elgato aren’t supported yet
some
How is that a “standard app”? There are hundreds of office suits, hundreds of databases and thousands of general purpose numerical computation programs used by professionals. This is just parroting Microsoft propaganda.
Except Zrythm, LMMS, Reaper, Tracktion, ReNoise, Radium, Waveform, Mixbus (which is Ardour I guess) and a ton of interactive music programming systems.
Both aren’t alone in their field. GoXLR is even only unsupported because of the incompetence of the manufacturer, had they used standard protocols not only would they work on Linux but also MacOS, Android and iOS. Older Elgato cards worked, but newer don’t seem to, but there is enough competition that does.
I think id rather eat a brick than continue this discussion goodbye
I agree with @poVoq@lemmy.ml
What a Linux desktop needs is a user, who’s able to think and who not assumes that it has to work the way he is used to from Windows. Many are simply unwilling to learn and therefore reject Linux.
I don’t think this is the problem. GNU/Linux desktop are more than capable to provide a Windows-like UX with KDE + AppImage.
The problem in my personal opinion is that there’s bugs everywhere. All desktops are written in memory-unsafe languages and keep on reinventing the same wheels over and over again, reintroducing subtle bugs.
oh boy … this “memory-unsafe”-argument again 🤦
Even with a Windows looking desktop UI and usage of AppImages, it’s still no Windows! There are no .exe-Files for drivers and games. There is no Microsoft account you need to login to. There is no “installer” who ask for the path you want to install your program.
What’s wrong with the argument that playing compiler in your head is both a waste of energy and a sure way to write bugs? Aren’t you tired of unexpected resource usage, stuff that should work that reaches hard-to-reproduce edge-cases, and kids bypassing your screensaver.
Really? Then what is Wine/NDISWrapper for? I’ve used Windows games and drivers in the past on my GNU/Linux system, and some of them sure used .exe extension.
Isn’t that a good thing? Also many people still use older windows where cloud login doesn’t exist. Does that mean it’s not Windows?
Yet GNU defined the standard –prefix to choose where to install your software (
make --prefix /Program\ Files/foobar).I mean sure there’s no equivalent of the registry, Aero/Metro UI toolkit, Cortana, or centralized Windows store (except on Ubuntu with snap). But who said we had to have the bad bits? ;)
appimage is easy for me now, but it took me forever 2 years ago to figure out that --no-sandbox addition needed and i still am annoyed that I often have a problem getting the icon on a menu or panel.
i think we should be open to criticism so that we can improve Linux and thereby starve the BigTech beast. If you have weeds in your garden, don’t make excuses for them, yank them out or allow them to grow in more appropriate places.
I’ve used AppImages a bunch but i’ve never heard about “–no-sandbox” so far. Do you know of apps that won’t run without it?
I’ve personally had good luck with AppImageLauncher in the past, but lately i just run apps from terminal. There’s also a bunch of other solutions. Let me know what worked for you :)
100% agree.
Some weeds are really good for your garden’s ecosystem in fact, but that’s off-topic :)
Since electron was apgraded or fixed, that appendage is no longer needed. I read that all of those appimages were made using electron. I did have AppImageLauncher and used it a first, but forgot about it. No longer have it.
As someone who supports many novice GNU/Linux users, i think this is true, but there’s many papercuts along the way. Every desktop environment is broken in subtle ways: the closest to a stable/consistent whole i GNOME but even it sometimes has services eating up resources unexpectedly, and is hard for users to tweak (too much reliance on extensions for what should be basic settings which are much easier to discover for users).
I’m not saying Windows is better: on Windows the “basic” experience works well but as soon as you start installing software, stuff will break in random ways until you have to reinstall from scratch.
Since you say you support new linux users, presumably in learning how to use it, do you have any links or books you could point me to on how to begin? Even where to begin? I don’t even know what the hell a sudo is or why I would bash it, know what I mean lol? Point is I am tired of windows and want something secure and private that can run handbrake, torrent shit, use gimp, onionshare, and some other odds and ends, all of which I am preeeeeeety sure whonix can do, but I don’t know enough about linux to feel comfortable making the jump just yet. I want to install say, mint or something, on a FD with persistence like tails so I can dip my feet, but I am told it doesn’t work, so I am at a standstill currently and would appreciate any input, advice, or resources you could point me to, thank you in advance!
I personally recommend to get started with a distro like Debian/Ubuntu which has a big user base and solid foundations (and is newcomer friendly, not like Archlinux). I’ve also heard good things about Pop!OS lately but haven’t tried it. The Debian admin handbook (although not updated for the latest version) is very complete documentation although not exactly beginner-friendly. For beginner material unfortunately there’s so many things to untangle i wouldn’t know a good resource: just like for Windows/Mac the common pattern is to be introduced to the UX by someone more knowledgeable who can answer your question and guide you around.
All in all it’s very easy to get started but some specific things may be confusing or require more research. In particular, knowing what terms to search for can be the hard part. Don’t hesitate to ask around on here or other forums, people are usually very helpful :)
Oh also, Tails is a wonderful distro and for reading/writing stuff is perfect, but it’s not intended to be customized with any and all apps. Yes making a persistent storage is easy, but having everything setup for persistence (eg. apps) is much harder, and the fact that there are routing rules to prevent UDP trafic and route all TCP through tor doesn’t help, just like that “custom” apps have to be reinstalled on every login (usually automatically, but only for the happy case).
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I’ve loaded two OSs onto them (for a Pi). If that is the same as mounting, then I had no problem. Didn’t try to run them, though. Perhaps people are confusing certain distros with all of Linux.
Works wonderfully well for me. Must be an issue either with the distro you’re using or with the reader itself, which isn’t compatible or doesn’t use standards somehow.
my comp cant mount sd card with its internal hardware either. maybe some specific drivers are missing.