I’ve been trying to find the information about how socialism has been tried, but its hard to find some solid information about the subject that does not have a strong capitalist bias. Apologies if I have failed in my search.
What do you mean by ‘succesfully’? Most actual socialist countries are under heavy sanctions/restrictions from capitalists, such as Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela. However, they do still provide affordable, and subsidised low-income housing apartments, schooling up to the University level without charge, and freely available healthcare. They also have a degree of planned economy, so unemoloyment isn’t all that high.
I guess I would consider what they have accomplished a success. But I guess I am looking more for any socialist countries that have not had heavy interference by means of sanctions or other restrictions from capitalist countries.
You can’t really call yourself a socialist, if you deny the successes of previously existing, or currently existing socialist countries, like the USSR, PRC, Cuba, Vietnam, and the DPRK. Every one of these countries was not allowed to develop unhindered, from their very inception they were under brutal attack by the capitalist west.
To focus on the USSR, I highly recommend these articles:
- Stephen Gowans - Do publicly owned, planned economies work
- A brilliant talk by Micheal Parenti, or read his article, Left anticommunism, the unkindest cut.
- Ian Goodrum - Socialism vs Capitalism and quality of life
- yogthos’s USSR achievements post
To summarize some of the USSRs achievements:
- USSR had a more nutritious diet than the US, according to the CIA. Calories consumed surpassed the US. source. Ended famines.
- Productive forces were not organized for capital gain and private enrichment; public ownership of the means of production supplanted private ownership. It was illegal to hire others and accumulate personal wealth from their labor.
- Had the 2nd fastest growing economy of the 20th century after Japan. The USSR started out at the same level of economic development and population as Brazil in 1920, which makes comparisons to the US, an already industrialized country by the 1920s, even more spectacular.
- Free Universal Health care, and most doctors per capita in the world. 42 doctors per 10k population, vs 24 in Denmark and Sweden, 19 in US.
- Had near zero unemployment, continuous economic growth for 70 straight years. The “continuous” part should make sense – the USSR was a planned, non-market economy, so market crashes á la capitalism were pretty much impossible.
- USSR moved from 58.5-hour workweeks to 41.6 hour workweeks (-0.36 h/yr) between 1913 and 1960
- USSR averaged 22 days of paid leave in 1986 while USA averaged 7.6 in 1996., 2
- In 1987, people in the USSR could retire with pension at 55 (female) and 60 (male) while receiving 50% of their wages at a at minimum. Meanwhile, in USA the average retirement age was 62-67.
- All education, including university level, free. 2
- 99% literacy.
- Saved the world from Fascism, Taking on the majority of Nazi divisions, and killing 90% of Nazi soldiers. Bore the enormous cost of blood and pain in WW2 (25M dead), with the bloodiest battles in the history of warfare.. An estimated 70% of Soviet housing was destroyed by Nazi invasion. Nazis were in retreat after the battle of Stalingrad in 1942, a full 2 years before the US landed troops in normandy.
- Doubled life expectancy. Eliminated poverty.
- Combatted sex inequality. Equal wages for men and women mandated by law, but sex inequality, although not as pronounced as under capitalism, was perpetuated in social roles. Very important lesson to learn.
- Combatted Racial inequality.
- Feudalism to space travel in 40 years. First satellite, rocket, space walk, woman, man, animal, space station, moon and mars probes.
- Soviet power production per capita in 1990 was more than the EU, Great Britain, or China’s in 2014.
- Housing was socialized by localized community organizations, and there was virtually no homelessness. Houses were often shared by two families throughout the 20s and 30s – so unlike capitalism, there were no empty houses, but the houses were very full. In the 40s there was the war, and in the 50s there were a number of orphans from the war. The mass housing projects began in the 60s, they were completed in the 70s, and by the 70s, there were homeless people, but they often had genuine issues with mental health.
- 66% of Russians polled in 2015 want the USSR back. The story is the same for all the former eastern-bloc countries: 72% of Hungarians say their country is worse off now than under communism, 57% of East Germans, 63% of Romanians, 77% of Czechs, 81% of Serbs (for Yugoslavia), 70% of Ukrainians, 60% of Bulgarians.
Thank you for the well sourced and informative comment. I think I would probably place myself somewhere in between democratic socialist and socialist, so I definitely have more learning to do. I will do more reading on the sources you recommended and look further into the history. This is a good starting point, thank you!
No problem :)
If you’d like any book recommendations, let me know. A lot of westerners start out as “democratic socialists”, but quickly move past that after reading a few short works.
I would love some book recommendations if you wouldn’t mind sharing!
Sure! Dessalines has a good study plan, and there’s also a stickied list of book recommendations on !communism@lemmygrad.ml . Here’s some great introductory essays:
- Lenin - The three sources and three component parts of Marxism
- Einstein - Why Socialism?
- Engels - Principles of Communism
- Red Phoenix - Pacifism - How to do the enemy’s job for them
if I were to suggest 3 theory books to start out, they’d be:
- Lenin - State and Revolution.
- Engels - Socialism, Utopian and Scientific.
- Luxemburg - Reform or Revolution.
For some good Marxist history, I’d recommend:
- Parenti - Blackshirts and Reds.
- Rodney - How Europe underdeveloped Africa.
- Sakai - Settlers
Many of these you can find either in audiobook form on youtube, or free on marxists.org, or libgen.
Awesome, thanks so much! I’ll definitely start out with some of those essays and move on to your book recommendations, much appreciated!
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it depends on what you categorize “success” as. There have been various Socialist states that have achieved successes, but no state on the face of the planet is free from failure - the failures of these states are what anti-communists will posit when arguing that socialism has “failed”, even if the failure of the state doesn’t constitute a failure of the socialist system. China and the Soviet Union achieved high employment rates, low homelessness rates, the same or higher caloric intake as the United States, technological leaps the west couldn’t achieve, and social strides that again the west couldn’t achieve. They achieved variations of Socialism, their own ways. But, anti-communists will tell you both abandoned socialism, and both failed at being socialist states.
Cuba is, perhaps, one of the better examples of home-built Socialism. Despite the sanctions, they’re a leader in human rights, a leader in medical studies and a major exporter of medicine and doctors to the third world, boast low unemployment and homelessness, and have wonderful social rights. This would be a successful implementation of Socialism - and arguably just as successful as the Soviet Union or China.
Cuba is probably the best example. The DPRK, though they removed mentions of “socialism” and “communism” from their constitution, I think are still considered socialist with no private ownership.
The DPRK didn’t remove mentions of socialism from their constitution. Article 1 of the DPRK constitution, for example, already says:
The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is an independent socialist State representing the interests of all the Korean people.
You can read an English translation of the DPRK constitution here: http://naenara.com.kp/main/index/en/politics?arg_val=constitution.
It’s true that they removed the mentions of communism from there, and for some years that word was very rarely used in DPRK media. However, since 2020 or 2021 they’re mentioning communism rather often again in political discourse.
I honestly don’t know why these changes happened. But that’s all just a lengthy discussion about words, it’s true that the DPRK is still socialist.
I stand corrected then.
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China, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos
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