• 1.63K Posts
  • 2.17K Comments
Joined 3Y ago
cake
Cake day: Aug 16, 2019

help-circle
rss

We’re kinda overdue for a patsoc purge IMO. I just got a comment from saddamhussein24 defending Israeli “workers” colonizing Palestine.


All MLs are patriotic, proletarian patriots.

Source? Most MLs adhere to proletarian internationalism, and the right of nations to self-determination, not “patriotism”.

Even CPUSA akcnowledges it, only maoist ultraleftists deny this.

I’m not in CPUSA, but iirc a few months back, luckily they dismissed a few patsocs. Its good to see them extricate themselves of opportunist notions of patriotism.

but isnt Sakai maoist

Not sure, I never got that inkling reading the book. He also wrote it a bit before MLM was synthesized, so I don’t think that applies. I remember reading an interview with him where he admires Mao, as we all do.

wouldnt make my gospel a guy who is so “materialist” he thinks China is capitalist and imperialist.

So did Parenti, western leftists having dogshit takes on China is nothing new, and is also no reason to dismiss their views on non-china topics.


“Israeli workers dont want to “keep the palestinian land”.”

This is nonsense. Land is land, of course they want to continue living there. Ask any Israeli settler if they’re willing to give up their land for free to a Palestinian.

LMFAO you just said that its false that “all workers have the same interests long term, socialism”.

Baby-level understanding of class, where there are only two groups, worker and capitalist, and no gradations or levels in between. I tried to illustrate that there are, with my house vs field slave example, which you could only ignore. But here, lets listen to what Lenin says on this:

For Lenin, superprofits derived from imperialism allow the globally predominant bourgeoisie to pay inflated wages to sections of the (international) proletariat, who thus derive a material stake in preserving the capitalist system:

In all the civilised, advanced countries the bourgeoisie rob—either by colonial oppression or by financially extracting “gain” from formally independent weak countries—they rob a population many times larger than that of “their own” country. This is the economic factor that enables the imperialist bourgeoisie to obtain super-profits, part of which is used to bribe the top section of the proletariat and convert it into a reformist, opportunist petty bourgeoisie that fears revolution.

If US white workers will always benefit from imperialism, why have living standards consistently gone down for them since Richard Nixon?

OECD workers make on average 11x more PPP-adjusted than non-OECD workers according to the ILO. US living standards, while having gone down from their peak post-WW2, is still incredibly better than almost every other country. We are at a level of global inequality that is absolutely indefensible, and to deny this imperialist arrangement, or even worse, suggest that US workers get more of the pie than they already consume, shows where your allegiances lie.

This is third worldism, this is maoist bs, this is not marxism wtf dude.

These are convoluted and overlapping terms, but no, it is not “mlm / maoist”, to deny the current imperialist arrangement of the world into rich exploiter countries, and poor surplus-value producing ones.

Thus, decolonization involves abolishing private property, taking the means of production (an actual marxist term, much better than this abstract classless notion of “land”) from the colonizer bourgeoisie, and redistributing them to the workers, both colonized and “settler”, while taking into account the damages caused by colonialism on the colonized, which the colonizer bourgeoisie will repay, not the workers.

This is the very definition of class collaborationism. Why on earth should the settler troops of Israel or the US continue to be rewarded with cheap land. When we say decolonization, we mean that truly, and not in an anarchisty “abolish property rights!” way: we mean stewardship and ownership of the land need to be returned to those it was stolen from, without demanding they institute any given economic system. Its theirs to do what they want.

Consider this a warning also: we allow some discourse around patriotism, but both you and @PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml are risking bans if you continue to say shit like: “Israeli settlers should be given land”.



Its the best US history book, no wonder you haven’t read it, and are a patsoc.



Let the ridicule of anti-indigenous settlerism commence.
fedilink

Society can have a little cow rape, as a treat.


USSR was not an imperial core country, it was mostly feudal. GDR is an interesting case, because its the only case in history of a capitalist -> socialist transition. But it only went through that because of its proximity to the USSR, and because the USSR forced through de-nazification.


Keep in mind that when saying “descendents of settlers”, you are essentially invoking the “finders keepers” rule. You can do anything, even genocide hundreds of tribes, then wait long enough, and it becomes okay.


Most indigenous eviction happened less than 200 years ago. And those people are still fighting the US government for return of land.

they are just trying to survive amid the low wages

So were poor proles from europe, that is not an excuse to genocide a people and steal their land.

When white workers go on strike, what do you do as bourgeois?

You hire them as overseers of slave plantations, or into the management layers, in a position above black, indigenous and latino workers. This strategy worked and is the cornerstone of US history. Social bribery and absorption of white workers into an oppressing labor aristocracy is thesis of both Sakai and Zinn, both of whom wrote the most popular left books on US history.

Long term, all workers have same interest, socialist revolution.

Also false, production has long been exported to low-wage countries, forming a global division of labor where imperial core “workers” are mostly in the service and transportation sectors, while global south proletarians are the ones actually engaged in productive labor, creating consumer products. That difference in the huge amounts of surplus value extracted from global south workers is the reason goods and so cheap in the US. US workers are entirely dependent on this arrangement, and imperialism is 100% in their interests.

Things are not as simple as “wage work = proletarian”. US workers are more akin to the house slaves on a plantation, not producing exchange values, but only use values, living off the surplus value created by a much larger population of field slaves. The goal of the house slaves is to preserve the system, and their priviledged position; the goal of the field slaves is to burn down the plantation.

Israeli and palestinian workers all have the same interests long term.

Entirely false: Israeli “workers” ( we should really say civilians to be more precise ), want to keep the land their government stole from Palestine. Palestinians want the return of that land. This is a zero sum game, and those lands should be returned to their rightful owners; Israeli’s have no right to that land.

Your response is essentially the finders keepers rule of land theft, where the existing survivors are told “tough shit”, when demanding that their land be returned to them. Interestingly I had to go through Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s crap recently, and in one of her rulings she 100% agrees with you: too much time has passed for land to be returned to its rightful owners, and the white settlers get to keep it.


Do you love the poor proles from europe who came to the US to evict the indigenous inhabitants so they could get some cheap land? What about Israeli settlers doing the same?



Lol I remember that. It was just a mild criticism of her too.


Blair Cottrel sounding like some of the patsocs on twitter.



Settler states even, like Israel or the US? Those built by having a settler garrison of poor proles wiping out and clearing the land of indigenous peoples? What’s there to be proud of about that?



I like tea better, much more variety, but if you love coffee, learn how to cold brew at home(its really cheap), and get one of those monthly subscriptions to coffees from around the world. You’ll have some of the best coffees you’ve ever had for really cheap.


I remember a US poll a few years back, showing that “undecided voters” were even worse than those that identified as republicans on social issues.


Her using that sign for two years and updating her age is a nice touch.


There’s an aziz ansari bit where he talks about how when he was in India, he just wasn’t as horny because sexualized advertising was less prevalent than in the US. In the US it could be a commercial about paper towels and they’ll try to find a way to make it sexual. The commodification of sex and especially women’s bodies for profit is a really harmful thing ( to women more than anyone of course ).


Mom its my turn to use the toothpick. FIDEL ATE ALL THE FRITTERS AGAIN













Help seeding some audiobook torrents?
Hey comrades, a bunch of really good audiobooks, including Capital Volume 2 + 3 just got uploaded to the linked channel. They're also [!literature@lemmygrad.ml](https://lemmygrad.ml/c/literature). If ppl could help me seed a lot of those that'd be much appreciated.
fedilink