The description missed: desperate attempt of OP to paint Wikipedia (the open source successful project which democratized public knowledge) same colours as Facebook and Twitter.
I wonder if there’s some kinda agenda behind it
Might want to look into WIkipedia’s very well documented history of political bias, racism, sexism, etc.
Well, thanks. But is there any good alternative or at least some approach fundamentally different but not susceptible to the same problems?
LOL really betting that people can’t see libertarian Jimmy Wales begging for money while manicuring every narrative the DoD spits out. Just because sometimes they are willing to accept that napalm’s ability to stick to flesh and burn underwater isn’t “irrelevant pov” we can take them at face value as a bastion of democracy. Are you on the Atlantic Council or do you simply have a sandblaster pointed at your brain?
check out their comment history for an extra laugh :)
Wanna suggest an apolical better alternative or you’re one of those who says “there’s nothing we can do, only criticize”?
You are the most whimpering human being alive.
You hurt my feelings! Argh, it hurts so much, I cannot take this any more, my life is over, why do you do this to me?!
You are on an open source pinko imageboard defending Wikipedia for “democratizing” information. If you had ever lifted a finger to participate in the psychotic liberal forum it really is, you’d shut your mouth. But here you are humiliating yourself. Go try to democratize some information, it would teach you something. You can’t even try because you don’t know anything you aren’t spoonfed. It would be lulzy for you to learn how their truths are made.
Sir, you totally engaged with my point, provided a solution and meanwhile have been very respectful to me. I wish to talk more with you, can we maybe meet up for a cup of coffee some time?
In classic redditor fashion you forget the subject of the thread you started?! Sandblasted brain.
Whenever I see these coy political memes I’m grateful that I’m not on the side where our extremists are the mainstream. The political theory is great, guys. In theory. Don’t make it your personality.
fRrEdOm oF sPeEcH dOeSnT mEaN yOu gEt tO sPeAk wHaTeVeR yOu wAnT oN pRiVaTe pLaTfOrMs sO tHeReS nO cEnSoRsHiP!!!1!!
Well, based on that logic, fire safety rules no longer apply to private buildings! Only government buildings are required to install smoke detectors and keep fire escapes clear. How about that?
You don’t get to claim something as a human right on the same level as access to food and water (and claim yourself as superior to countries that supposedly don’t have it) and then give yourself exceptions that nullify it in almost every situation. There are no public government run platforms of speech in the US.
Full rant here: https://lemmy.ml/post/255762/comment/174695
As someone who spent a year fighting the narrative on Wikipedia, the only thing I came to realize is they’re right 95% of the time (and the remainder is a matter of one way or the other can’t be proven, so they went with the common opinion)
Fwiw my account even has the extended protected rank, I spent a lot of time on it
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A tiny fraction of overall online audience use these platform.
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Sure, turns out most people are perfectly fine with controlled mainstream media. And this is what makes the whole system so effective. Even when alternative media is available, most people just ignore it.
I’m just guessing, but maybe just maybe people like you have something to do with it?
says the stalker
Honestly the real problem though… is the double edged problem. Sadly the majority of people that are censored… are ones that no one wants to listen to, self admitted white supremacists, Flat earthers, anti vax, school shooting deniers etc…
The problem is in the ideal world, those types aren’t censored, but are burried on the simple ground of being outnumbered. But sadly they are a larger fringe than people that just care about free speach… and thus when a platform opens without censorship, instead of representing the actual reality, it disproportionately gets overtaken by the hateful extremists.
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How is wikipedia part of it?
Wikipedia is incredibly biased when it comes to political topics and it’s regularly curated by US government and corporations https://www.vice.com/en/article/nnk97k/the-internet-is-flooded-with-wikipedia-edits-made-by-government-and-big-oil
That (near decade-old) article really only describes conservative interests affecting the bias of the Wikipedia articles. Many editing incidents have happened since then, and they’re almost entirely attributable to conservatives bias, as well.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_editing_incidents_on_Wikipedia
Of course, it’s the same with all of these other websites, but conservatives are the ones insisting that the entire internet is pitted against them by the powers that be when that couldn’t be further from the truth.
Lol
No free speech - no freedom
My freedom - say bullshit, your freedom - mute me for you
Censorship in the West: we don’t want that on our platform, person goes and finds a different platform.
Censorship under authoritarian governments: Criticize government? Straight to jail. Uncover wrongdoing by party official? Jail. Political opposition becoming more than controlled opposition? Believe it or not, jail.
Censorship in the West for minor criticisms isn’t overtly blocking in the information. Instead it is drowned out with the government’s narrative on all major platforms of discourse
Censorship under authoritarian governments:
Just a small cross section
Censorship in the West: we don’t want that on our platform, person goes and finds a different platform.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
Political opposition becoming more than controlled opposition? Believe it or not, jail.
You mean like Assange and Manning?
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Please point where people are claiming that Russia or Belarus are beacons of democracy. The discussion is about the hypocrisy of western countries that claim to have more freedoms while doing same things as the states they decry as being authoritarian.
western countries that claim to have more freedoms while doing same things as the states they decry as being authoritarian
Sorry, but people in the states and Canada just aren’t being jailed for their political opinions. There’s nothing even remotely like https://youtu.be/TbzV1it1YPY or https://twitter.com/nikorepi/status/1503096676575236098 happening in North America…
They literally are. Go look at what RCMP does to the Indigenous people protecting their land in Canada as an example. When Canada wants to run a pipeline through indigenous land, that hasn’t been ceded I might add, they’ll brutalize and arrest as many people as they want. The fact that you believe there is nothing like this happening in North America is pathetic.
Abuse of Indigenous people is political violence on top of the genocide Canadian settlers committed.
- https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/class-action-rcmp-abuse-indigenous-people-certified-1.6076962 *https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/3/24/the-indigenous-people-killed-by-canadas-police
- https://thenarwhal.ca/rcmp-arrests-wetsuweten-coastal-gaslink/
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raO_s9W09p0
Lots of white privilege on display here.
But this is not the same thing. This is people demonstrating by physically disrupting projects. We can agree or disagree about the validity of their movement, like I myself don’t want us to build more pipelines, but clearly there’s a difference. These people using more than just speech and persuasion to try and achieve their political ends, they are directly trying to intervene physically. Nobody in Canada is being arrested or even stopped from expressing their political outlook, talking to media, or trying to persuade people to join their cause. In fact, levels of government often actually help in these expressions by for instance allowing a protest/march to partially shut down streets for the duration of a demonstrations in major cities like Vancouver and Toronto. Major parties run and even win representation, running on anti-pipeline platforms.
But that freedom of speech and freedom of opinion and of the press does not extend to the point of taking matters into ones own hands. And if you tried to pull off something like this in Russia by physically blocking the construction of a natural gas pipeline I have a feeling that the police would be a lot less tolerant than the RCMP.
It’s just a plain true fact that in Canada we have orders of magnitude more political freedom than in Belarus and Russia.
But this is not the same thing. This is people demonstrating by physically disrupting projects.
Illegal projects on unceded land. However, as links I provided show, this is not limited to pipelines being rammed through Indigenous land.
It’s just a plain true fact that in Canada we have orders of magnitude more political freedom than in Belarus and Russia.
As long as you have blue eye and blond hair.
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I encourage you to read chapter 10 in this book that invalidates your narrative.
Hahah I knew it would be a parenti book :D
Parenti did some heroic work documenting the sins of the empire.
I did not realize this database existed, so a sincere thank you for providing a link.
Book time!
Ooh! Is this that Whataboutism thing that liberals keep accusing socialists of!
Actually no, this goes beyond just that when the US/UK/EU claim to be THE global bastions of free speech and the vanguards and protectors of free speech for the entire world. When they still pull this shit, you really have to start thinking if they have ulterior motives when they accuse China, Russia, or Belarus of human rights violations for not having free speech and whether this whole free speech thing is part of an agenda.
This isn’t just pot calling the kettle black, this is pot, who also claims to be the inventor and defenser of white, calling the kettle black.
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now you want to pretend to have nuance?
finally, one down
Overton window
There’s a difference between socially unacceptable and “straight to jail”.
You mean like Assange and Manning?
Manning not only released documents that were under her care as an intelligence officer, but also broke into other systems. Regardless of whether you support what she did, she did so knowing the consequences of breaking her oath. In doing so, she made public wrongdoing, but also exposed sources that the US had promised would be kept safe.
Assange… well, that feels more like a case of karma. The Obama/Biden administration declined to indict him in relation to the Manning leaks. He then screwed with the 2016 US elections, blatantly stoking conspiracy theories, laundering Russia’s hacks in service of Trump, and coordinating with the Trump campaign to time releases to blunt at least one scandal. In return, the Trump administration indicted him. I don’t fully understand the case, so I won’t comment on it.
Compare that to investigative journalism in general in the US. Journalists can publish pieces that are extremely critical of both the government and corporations. High up people regularly are dragged down from their perch by an enterprising reporter. Maybe newsrooms aren’t as well staffed as they used to be, but it’s not in the same league as countries like China, Russia, and Venezuela that lack anything resembling a free press.
There’s a difference between socially unacceptable and “straight to jail”.
So just a straw man then?
Compare that to investigative journalism in general in the US. Journalists can publish pieces that are extremely critical of both the government and corporations.
Journalists can’t question systemic problems in US. Entire books have been written on how journalism in US has been subverted. Read Inventing Reality and Manufacturing consent which both provide numerous case studies.
The fact that you genuinely believe that quality of journalism in China, Russia, or Venezuela is significantly worse than in the west is illustration of the effectiveness of propaganda in western media.
Assange did real journalism and he is being tortured for it right now. Instead of being outraged by the war crimes he exposed you choose to smear the man.
Also, I highly recommend that you read in this book detailing political repression in US. A few excerpts:
What do you think about https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_nihilism
(I did not read the whole context but it is impossible to ignore this)
Doesn’t that describe exactly what western countries do? For example https://theconversation.com/school-curriculum-continues-to-whitewash-britains-imperial-past-53577
That was not what I asked. What is your view on China/CCP on historical nihilism in specific?
We can all agree about the factual bad things west does.
My view is that I have no idea what CCP is, but CPC doesn’t seem to be doing anything exceptional with regards to historical revisionism. Perhaps you can try to articulate the point you’re trying to make in more concrete terms.
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What do you have against Venezuela?
I don’t have anything against Venezuela per se. Maduro is a shitty leader who maintains his grip on power by giving oil money to the armed forces. He’s nothing but a military-backed dictator that is so shitty that he and Hugo Chavez provoked a massive migration crisis with 15% of the country leaving. Part of the way he maintains his grip besides bribing the armed forces is extermination of any free press.
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I’m assuming you’re talking about China in this.
Yeah no. For anyone just randomly complaining about the government, in order of frequency of “enforcement” used, frequency decreases exponentially: 1. No one cares and their post stays up forever; 2. The individual post gets removed or prevented from being posted; 3. Their account on that platform gets banned. The platforms in China like WeChat, the Chinese version of TikTok, etc are still private platforms by private companies btw.
Oh look! Some actual legislation on the subject! https://lemmy.ml/post/69688/comment/60571
It’s only when you go beyond just criticizing the government and into advocating for violence, civil disorder, and coup when you actually get into law enforcement response and potential jail time. Which, by the way, is absolutely also true for Western countries, go ahead and point to a single Western “free speech” country that doesn’t outlaw those in their legislation, I’ll wait. By the way, despite popular Western belief, there are no “illegal speech” crimes that are punishable by death in China. They have these nifty things called “maximum punishments allowed by statute” just like the West, and death is only on the table for the most serious crimes like murder, rape, etc, just like the West.
death is only on the table for the most serious crimes like murder, rape, etc, just like the West.
Massive economic crimes is also in, unlike the west.
Massive economic crime is a serious crime.
In the west it just goes in the portfolio.
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You can call for the overthrow of the US government. People do it all the time without consequence. More specific threats against particular targets might get a visit from the Secret Service.
It’s easy to find counterexamples of China having a go at journalists. For example, a journalist was sentenced to four years in prison for “picking quarrels and provoking trouble”, the CPC’s blanket crime for those who displease it. She had been doing unflattering reporting on the CPC’s handling of COVID-19.
death is only on the table for the most serious crimes like murder, rape, etc, just like the West.
Most of the West has abolished the death penalty. The US is an outlier here, and even in the US it is only for murder and many states have abolished it completely.
In the US the death sentence is given out for such innocuous crimes as being Black while walking and living in Indigenous communities so I dunno what you mean.
Anyway, as far as “official death sentences” the US did it 11 times in 2021 and China did it 6, so you’re still wrong in thinking China does it more than the US.
The US has executed 365 juvenile offenders, and only raised the minimum age of execution to 18 in 2005
55% of Americans still support the death penalty.
And again, the extrajudicial executions carried out by US police is exceptionally astounding.
Edit: “Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein…Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both”
So nope, you can’t call for the overthrow of the US government.
In the US the death sentence is given out for such innocuous crimes as being Black while walking and living in Indigenous communities so I dunno what you mean.
Bullshit. Complete bullshit.
China did it 6
The number of people China subjects to the death penalty is considered a state secret. It includes not just murder but also drug trafficking. Estimates usually range in the thousands, with China estimated to execute more than every other state combined.
The US has executed 365 juvenile offenders, and only raised the minimum age of execution to 18 in 2005
So we’re doing better than China, which still executes juveniles? Cool.
And again, the extrajudicial executions carried out by US police is exceptionally astounding.
This is a valid complaint, but it’s a debate we are fully free to have. BLM has been a strong movement with support from a wide variety of racial groups.
So nope, you can’t call for the overthrow of the US government.
That law, the Smith Act, hasn’t been used in decades. Many of the convictions under it were overturned, with one prosecutor expressing regret for even bringing an indictment.
Bullshit? Are you fucking kidding me? You seriously so oblivious to the state of things in the US that you don’t see the countless cases of cops killing kids and Indigenous people being fucking genocided?
China does not execute juveniles, the minimum age is 18 there as well. Pretty cool that you don’t need any fucking sources, you can just say “it’s a state secret” while spouting entirely unfounded nonsense about juvenile executions.
Literal laws on America’s books don’t count because “they’re not applied” but when it comes to China their laws don’t matter because you have unfounded claims of juvenile executions?
What despicable American exceptionalism, you should be utterly ashamed of yourself.
Edit: nevermind, just blocked that person. Not wasting time engaging with someone that obtuse. Honestly, if I didn’t know how dogmatically brain-wormed USians are I would have to assume they were being paid to spout this much garbage.
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This person doesn’t appear to want to hear anything that challenges their view of China, but for anyone else here is one article: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/04/chinas-deadly-secrets/
There is plenty more coverage along the same veins.
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