Change in manjaro team composition
forum.manjaro.org
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Fellow manjaro users, As you may have heard, our long time contributor and friend Jonathon is no longer part of the Manjaro team. He has been a great asset to the team and over the seven years has done much for packaging, communication with the Arch team and especially for this community. He will be missed. The inciting incident for the conflict eventually leading to this was a hardware purchase for one of the team members, but the disagreement was not caused because the purchase was inappropr…

@ajz
111Y

When there is two disagreeing parties it can be hard to figure whom to believe. The way this was handled in the forum, and this late team statement doesn’t make a good impression on me. I will refrain from using Manjaro myself, and focus on using plain Arch and Artix Linux (both with focus on non-profit) when it comes to Arch.

@cronjob
310M

Just finished moving over to NixOS from Manjaro myself, purely because I enjoy the concept of a declarative system. I have no idea how the company/community operates however, so I should probably do some digging before I get too comfortable…

@ajz
210M

nice. btw, feel free to think about taking over mod here : https://lemmy.ml/c/nixos

@abbenm
31Y

Agreed. It’s possible that as a matter of substance it’s all fine - I don’t see why a committed developer can’t get a laptop or whatever other hardware they want. Whatever keeps them working, happy, and engaged with the project.

You should still have a good process, you should follow the processes you set up, and you should bend over backwards to address any concerns that get raised instead of dismiss them, and generally have an ethos of accountability and transparency. Instead they hid the thread, stripped his mod powers, still haven’t really explained anything, and are trying to make it about him.

The whole thing about trust is that you follow a process, and you show you value and commit to that process, so that if something comes up, people can trust that it will be handled in an accountable away. I don’t know how anyone reading this can feel like there are good processes in place.

@TheMainOne
5
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5M

deleted by creator

Ephera
101Y

There’s a huge discrepancy between this post and the post of jonathan. The conflict is clearly not yet resolved. And no, the opposing side being removed (even if it actually voluntarily stepped down) does not resolve the conflict. Because such a conflict is a problem of the organization. Conflicts always happen, but it requires a functioning organization for them to be resolved.

This conflict remaining unresolved up to the point where someone left the organization is the absolutely worst possible outcome and needs to be taken as a point for reflection. You cannot just cover it up and move on. Conflicts will happen again and with members knowing that bringing up a conflict might lead to them losing their job, they’re not going to talk about them. Which does not make those conflicts go away, they’ll rather become worse. Without talking, more people will “voluntarily step down”.

@abbenm
31Y

Exactly.

I think it almost would be better if (hypothetically) there were an ethical breach, but they corrected it, spoke openly and were accountable. That would be much less alarming than a case where there was no breach, but they didn’t follow the process and were dismissive about concerns raised - that tells you what they will do when there really is a problem.

Ephera
21Y

Yep, and what’s even worse here, is that the person raising concerns is now gone from the project. They not only showed that they’re atrocious at dealing with these things, they’re also going to be worse at it in the future.

Arden
81Y

Drama in the Distro!

@muesli
41Y

I feel like the caption of this post is rather sensational. It doesn’t actually say Jonathon (correct spelling here) was fired at all:

This disagreement culminated in Jonathon announcing that he was stepping down as the administration of donations.

@abbenm
61Y

Okay, but the very next sentence says:

The initiative for this came from him, but the way it was enacted left him feeling kicked out, which led him to publicly announce his side of the story while the events were still unfolding.

And then later:

Because of his methods of highlighting his views, his position within the team became untenable.

He felt that a process was not handled appropriately, and the team decided that he was no longer one of them.

I am grateful that Jonathan went to the community to allow these events to get public scrutiny they deserved. That clearly was not going to happen if it was up to the Manjaro team, which hid the thread, stripped his mod privileges, and even now are saying that he shouldn’t have said anything.

What’s the other side of the story?

Ephera
4
edit-2
1Y

This is the post that Jonathan, the former treasurer, made: https://forum.manjaro.org/t/change-of-treasurer-for-manjaro-community-funds/154888

@motorto
5
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4M

deleted by creator

@Kamui
71Y

I’m at a loss as well. Was Jonathon overreacting with his post, or was he attempting to blow the whistle? Why did Phil attempt to unlist the thread (eroding transparency)? Apparently Jonathon was also removed from being a forum mod… ugh, I really like Manjaro too. =/

@ajz
111Y

Project leader gets criticized by treasurer, fires treasurer, and becomes treasurer himself. Only that fact makes me frown.

@Kamui
310M

Say it ain’t so Boss!! Ugh, I guess I just don’t want to see them as bad guys ;~~~~;

@Cloak
21Y

Lol. Gonna write that down.

IMO most of the functionality of Manjaro can be replaced by Arch + a graphical installer.

@pavot
0
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7d

deleted by creator

@jwinnie
creator
91Y

Nothing? Do you consider misuse of OpenCollective funds and silencing and removing core project members for doing their jobs “nothing”?

@muesli
21Y

Where do you get the idea there was a misuse of funds? I quote from the post you linked to yourself:

The inciting incident for the conflict eventually leading to this was a hardware purchase for one of the team members, but the disagreement was not caused because the purchase was inappropriate. Everyone involved was mostly on the same page about how the money should be spent. The actual disagreements were about the process of allocating the funds.

We want to be clear, there has not been any financial misuse of the donation funds. We are committed to ensuring that this will remain so.

@ajz
21Y

Where do you get the idea there was a misuse of funds?

That info comes from Jonathan, the former treasurer. https://forum.manjaro.org/t/change-of-treasurer-for-manjaro-community-funds/154888

@muesli
31Y

Jonathon (everyone seems to get his name wrong) also doesn’t mention the misuse of funds, tho. He’s arguing that this payout wasn’t following their written reimbursement policy. Which is absolutely a fair argument to be had, don’t get me wrong. But it’s not misuse of funds.

@ajz
21Y

Thanks for correcting my name typo, and my hasty reading ! :+1:

@abbenm
2
edit-2
1Y

You are quoting from one side of the story.

The problem even with this version is that they are doing a bit of a two-step, saying the funds were not technically misused, but they don’t appear to be disputing that the request was handled in a way that didn’t comply with their own procedures. By way of illustration, it’s like if money goes mysteriously missing, but then shows back up in the right place. No technical harm done, but an alarming breakdown in procedure just the same. Maintaining an integrity of procedure and handling concerns in a way that shows you take them serious is critical to raising yourself above suspicion. If they don’t want to follow their own procedures, they should thank their treasurer for raising the issue, work with them to discuss a way to change the procedure, and then change the procedure to one that they won’t ignore.

@pavot
3
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7d

deleted by creator

@jwinnie
creator
31Y

What is your interpretation of the situation?

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Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word “Linux” in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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