They don’t even want you to use the website I don’t think. They’ve even done experiments where they blocked people from using the mobile website. The more they want me to use their app, the more I want to avoid Reddit all together.
Control and money. They can serve more ads and harvest your data more easily if they control the platform
To them, loss of 3rd party users is insignificant because they’re users they weren’t able to monetize to begin with
If that insignificant number is disproportionately active users and moderators, then they will significantly feel it.
At least until they just have bots commenting, posting, and moderating.
Everyone says that the loss of these 3rd party app users will destroy them, but I disagree. I don’t think that the quality of experience is as closely linked to profitability as most people think. Ad-Clicking viewers of cat gifs are blissfully unaware of the current fiasco.
Yes they can get most of their content from tiktok and instagram. They’re likely not going to be a discussion heavy site anymore.
Bang on. Can’t serve you ads if they can’t control what’s on your screen.
I’m pretty sure they could serve ads from the API if they wanted. However, telemetry data would be incomplete at best. Given that they’ve outright stated that they want to create “actionable conversations” out of people talking about products they like on Reddit that data could be incredibly valuable to marketing companies and astroturfers.
Them serving you ads could’ve been solved by adding that in the TOS for using the API as a third party client. They can still track you by the API calls your account makes.
That’s what makes this stupid in my opinion. They could’ve easily monitized the API in several ways, while still having control. One reason I can think of they’d do this is to harvest non-reddit data from you using the app, which is shitty as hell, but not too far fetched.
Ads.
Not only ads, but their app is the only one that supported their NFT system. And their Twitter Spaces clone. And their upcoming shorts feature. And so on. They desperately want to be every other social network, and that means copying features that are mobile-centric.
I really don’t get why all these social platforms try so hard to just be copies of each other. I like having diverse and different platforms for different things. Once they all started homogenizing, I really stopped using most social media.
And when LinkedIn added their ripoff of Instagram Stories I was like…aaaaand that’s it for me. Why does a professional site need a stories feature?
Because companies don’t want money. They don’t want a lot of money. They want ALL the money. If another company has a feature that people like and use, then this company wants that money as well. So they either buy that other company or copy and push the feature in the hopes of converting users.
This is why YouTube has these asinine shorts shoved into your layout. They know YT users don’t want them. This is why you can’t disable them. They know that another company makes money with shorts and they want it - so YOU are gonna use them goddammit.
A third party YouTube app doesn’t have to show these shorts so YT wouldn’t be able to pressure their users into consuming that format.
I happen to like the shorts. I only wish your shirts subscriptions were separate from your regular subscriptions. Otherwise I don’t have any issues with it.
However, I do know a lot of people do take issue with it, and that’s okay!
I heard they are planning on adding pants soon, cant wait to see the drama around it
YouTube Pants™ coming soon to a mobile app near you!
That’s precisely what they don’t want. The modern fight isn’t directly for your money, but for your time.
If you’re binge watching Netflix… You’re not playing a Nintendo game. If you’re playing a Nintendo game… You’re not listening to Spotify. Or going to the movie theater. And so on.
For social media platforms it’s the same. People like short videos now? Well, if Facebook doesn’t add them to their app you’ll close it and go browse TikTok. In the next board meeting, executives are going to ask the team why the hell are they not working on adding short videos.
It’s a vicious battle for your time, and then figuring out later how to monetize that attention. Usually ads.
It’s a good point, albeit a highly unfortunate one. No faster way to get me to spend less time in your app than to make it the same as all the others, you know?
LinkedIn is the most stupid thing because it is a fucking job board that wants to play to be Facebook and is the most unnecesary thing in the world. Before the Instagram Stories clone they were already too far by adding like 20 other social network features that a page like LinkedIn doesn’t need.
Yeah they really took it downhill dramatically didn’t they?
You see this in other industries as well. I think every business just wants to be Walmart and an airline at the same time.
Then they would be selling literally everything, no one would shop anywhere else and their prices would adjust automagiclly based on the size of your wallet.
A platform’s development is entirely in the hands of its userbase. If the users stay on the platform longer due to a change, they’ll make that change and keep it. It just so happens that humans like what humans like, so all social media tries to cater to the same things that humans like, which leads them to implementing the same features because it drives engagement. It’s a trend towards mediocrity.
I understand the logical concept here but struggle to really get it. As platforms do this homogenization, I lose interest in all of them. I’d far rather have several platforma that do one or two things really, really well instead of a bunch of platforms that do everything, but poorly.
I like your comment about a trend toward mediocrity!
Oh sure, they push away some subset of users, but there are large swaths of the population that it appeals to. Significantly more than it annoys.
This kind of feature creep was also common in the web2.0 days. Lots of forum plugins were basically “you can have a facebook profile and feed page and a twitter feed, but they’re all
wish.comequivalents because they’re locally hosted and can only be seen by the other people on this forum”. These features were generally quite popular too, heck I installed a few on my own forum. Besides money and things, I think it’s enticing to want to make your site into a “one stop” site. Throw in the fact that these are all capitalist hegemons trying to become the next ring to rule them all, and I think you’ve got your answer.For sure. Unfortunately that last bit there, I know is the answer. It just sucks!
Oh dear god, not Shorts… Everyone’s trying to copy the TikTok model with Shorts…
I hate, hate HATE shorts, especially on YouTube.
For my work I sometimes produce 30-60 econd video clips and trying to show them to a client when YT insists on having them in the Shorts format is frustrating. I realise I can change the URL manually to override it, but it’s just so stupid. And it also means I can set a custom thumbnail, as Shorts desnt allow that.
It all boils down to the way we consume media, but I feel that some platforms (like Reddit) isn’t meant at all for this.
Definitely - or at least not by default.
Tiktok and shorts are doing a number on people’s attention spans and dopamine reward system. I remember there was some brain activity MRI study about this before. I bet it’s even worse now. Especially on kids and teens with neuroplasticity (if I remember correctly neuroplasticity ends around age 25). Their brains will form differently.
Not just shorts, but microtransactions and micro-rewards. Small bursts of dopamine, non-stop.
And they do it in the most abhorrent manner ever: No timeline, no way to rewind, and hold-to-pause. And people keep making minute long shorts.
I like YouTube shorts. I hate youtube short’s format. For that reason, I removed the shorts and won’t get them back until revanced adds the playback controls YouTube doesn’t.
Reddit will be worse. Their engineers can’t make a video player that doesn’t download all video qualities at the same time, on a wasteful format. Their shorts feature will follow suit, it’ll be uber garbage.
I wonder if we’ll have the same discussion about Lemmy Shorts in ten years from now ;)
I have to say, there’s something peak hilarious to imagining someone at redsit huffing and puffing that "THEY’RE NOT USING OUR NFT’s!
They’ve gotta reclaim all that lost valuation for their IPO somehow!
More precisely, money.
If they streamline how users get access to Reddit, then they get to determine what they see. Now the third-party apps will get killed, the access through mobile browsers will be limited with the idea to force users into the app, old-reddit will be gone at some point as well. And then Reddit can spam users with ads and also force users into buying premium services to see no/less ads. Since all alternative ways of using the website will be gone, people have to swallow that pill no matter how big it is.
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To quote ljdawson, the dev of Sync for reddit: “Apart from crashes I don’t track shit.”
He was asked how many API calls Sync’s users have on average. He simply couldn’t answer. That’s why we loved 3rd party apps.
The third-party API doesn’t let them see how people interact with the app, only what the user is accessing.
It’s just to further monetize the user’s interactions and sell the data, because the executive team are greedy little pigboi.
Correct. Mobile apps get privileged access on your device which they use to track you. They don’t want third-party apps having all that data.
They don’t make money off of our regular interactions on the site. They make money by selling tracking packages of users to advertisers.
In an app made by them, they can track so so much of what you do. Much much harder to get data from someone using a third-party app.
Ads and tracking.
So $$$.
They can force-feed ads to you and track your every click and sell that gobs of data to companies using it to make more $$ and to further develop their tracking to make yet more $$$
So, as always, the answer to such questions is: Money.
Just from using reddit, I can only really see a few ways for them to make money.
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Subscriptions/awards. Not many people do this, certainly not enough to keep the doors open.
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Advertisements
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Selling user data
Let’s start with 2. The reason they re-designed the UI in both the app and the desktop version is because they need to create as much space as possible for them to put ads into- and still have it not be so annoying for the user that they stop using the site. Now, on the website they can still put adds on old.reddit, just not as many- so they haven’t come for that yet, because it isn’t draining nearly as much income as the mobile market. Their new mobile app does the same as the frontend redesign- it maximizes ad space, and also allows them to collect other user data such as location to sell to marketing agencies.
ALL of the alternative Reddit clients (or at least, all I have used) have adblocker built into them. For some of them, you pay the app for that- a payment which is often less than Reddit Gold is, and is usually a one-time payment. And these apps hold the user data that can actually be sold, like location. So third-party apps disrupt all three of Reddit’s possible revenue streams by having people not pay for premium to hide ads, by blocking advertisements anyway and denying Reddit the ad revenue for them, and by keeping the user’s data away from Reddit.
That’s why I think they made the API price so ridiculously high- it isn’t just meant to scare them away, it’s meant to be a reflection of what they feel they are losing in revenue from users using third party apps. If it was just about any one of the 3 points above, the rate would be much more reasonable- but it’s all 3.
Couldn’t they have integrated ads as posts, then it’d show on any third part app. And I saw other ideas floating around about making third party app access a feature behind Reddit Premium. So many alternatives and they choose the most idiotic one
or buy the apps and incorporate their functionality
Yes but the problem is tracking who sees and who clicks. The advertisers pay more for things like conversion rates and targeted advertisement. For that you need to be in control of who sees the ad, and a way to know if the user engaged with the content. All that I don’t think is possible with 3pps, unless they start playing ball and report all that data to Reddit.
Thanks for the thorough and understandable response! You wouldn’t believe how many responses aren’t even a full sentence much less an explanation.
Can’t people request to block tracking with apps on iOS? I don’t have an iPhone myself but my impression is that the do not track applies to apps.
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A native app offers the most control. Ad blockers are harder to obtain and use.
I’d say at least a good chunk of third party app users would eventually figure out about Revanced
Revanced manager already has patched for reddit
Don’t know if it’s been posted yet… money
Eyes on ads
Click through data
Ad impressions
This is why the often run “experiments”.
Reddit wants to show ads and to collect user data.
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People actually used the reddit chat?
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Money. Not only can they better monetize it, it makes their numbers look better for the potential IPO.
The IPO is everything, I’m sure. So much of any valuation is entirely speculative, but the higher that speculation is the more money the stakeholders will be able to get out when they sell.
Presumably spez is a major stakeholder, and if so, a short-term inflation of particular usage metrics would directly mean more dollars in his pocket when they sell. It doesn’t matter if it then all falls over in a heap, if the monetisation isn’t actually viable; he (and others) have already cashed out, and the folks who bought into the valuation are left holding the bag.
Yeah. Twitter was already a financial disaster before the Musk buyout. There’s a reason the board pushed the sale on him when he tried to back out. We’re in a tech-bust era where it’s not enough to dangle the new shiny in front of investors, profit be damned. Who’s to say that reddit will do any better?
C.R.E.A.M.
Because they want control over their platform. They want full access to the user data so they can use it and sell it. And they want to be able show targeted adds because they are a business and the main purpose why they do what they do is because they need to make money.
