My wife’s sister’s husband has spent a few years as a corporate lawyer for various companies, most recently for some insurance company working to screw other companies out of their coverage. So he tells me “you know, I just don’t like my job, I’m making a ton of money, but I’m not happy, I want to do something meaningful, I want to help people” etc. I’m thinking “oh, okay, right on.” But then my BIL loses me completely when he tells me “so I applied to become and FBI agent and I have already made it pretty far in the process. So an agent might contact you when they do my background check.”
(First of all, I’m not speaking to a fucking FBI pig for nothing. Fuck that. And I told my BIL so: “I will not be speaking to the FBI. If an agent contacts me, that is exactly the entirety of what I will say to them before I hang up the phone or shut the door.” But I bit my tongue when it came to why I felt that way)
The topic didn’t come up again, but I’ll probably see him again in a couple of weeks. And I feel like I need to say something to him, but what? He claims being an FBI agent has been his dream since he was 15. He apparently thinks joining the FBI is a way to help people. He’s tired of looking after rich people’s money and rich corporations’ money (bro what do you think you’ll be doing with the FBI???) I also feel like a big reason he is doing this is to seem cool and masculine and interesting, not out of a genuine desire to help.
What do you guys think? How should I approach it? What specifically should I bring up to demonstrate that the FBI is not the best way to help people? Should I go all out that the FBI is demonstrably evil? Or should I take the approach that it is lame as hell? What alternative path would you suggest to someone with a law degree who says they want to help people?
I’m not trying to attack him or anything. It is lame and has made me lose respect for him, but I’m not trying to lead with that.
Two things to watch out for if you go down the route of listing the FBI’s bad history:
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- ‘These are past actions. The FBI is not like that any more.’
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- ‘I won’t do bad things. In fact, I’ll keep the FBI clean and on the right track.’
There’s s playbook of defences for the worst aspects of capitalism and capitalist institutions. If the idea of the good cop has come from media (where else can it have come from? reality certainly didn’t paint the police or secret services in a good light) the idea may also be coupled with the idea that the negatives are rogue actions. It may be hard to argue that the problems are institutional.
Given this, as others have said, it may be better to keep chill relations and talk to your BIL over a drink. No accusations, no antagonism. Just a friendly talk.
One thing that might work is looking at what happens to FBI whistleblowers. This would give you something to say if he thinks he could do something about any bad things if he sees them happen.
Ultimately, you may not be able to persuade him. If that happens and you go in too hard, you might cause a rift in any of the relationships between you and your BIL.
As he is a corporate lawyer, you may want to recommend Grietje Baars, The Corporation, Law, and Capitalism: A Radical Perspective on the Role of Law in the Global Political Economy. There is a PDF floating around the internet. Baars is a commercial lawyer turned Marxist legal academic. This book could be the way in to radicalising your BIL.
Edit: formatting
I have a relative who’s an intellectual property lawyer. His JD thesis was about how Google couldn’t possibly be anything other than evil. When he was in college he said his goal was to help inventors. Now he has a successful firm defending silicon valley patents. I just don’t get some people. I mean he makes loads of money but he’s never been a greedy person.
Thank you. The idea that the FBI has changed from the Bad Old Days is something I have been thinking about. But Hoover’s name is still on the building. And since 9/11, everything that was done to rein in Hoover’s FBI has been rolled back. So many abuses in the name of anti-terrorism
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The entrapment stuff is so fucked up. They aren’t stopping actual terrorist plots, so they are basically faking them and then patting themselves on the back.
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Yeah, if you want to actually help people you can become a social worker. Volunteer with at-risk teens. Become a teacher or nurse. Becoming a cop or FBI is a male power fantasy that you delude yourself into thinking you will help people, but you just want to be the tough guy that gets respect. And get a cushy, nice-paying job cause you sure as shit are not gonna be making bank teaching kids.
Edit: i don’t know if he thinks that he will be catching serial killers or signing the warrants that in a high IQ play finally put the spring on the guy they’ve been chasing for years, but realistically as an ex-lawyer he’ll be in a cubicle all day long staring at a PC running windows XP and once in a while proofreading legal papers for approval before the whole corruption case gets tossed down the drain because they tracked the money to some federal senator lmao
FBI agents actually don’t make a ton of money. Which makes it even more baffling as to why anyone would want to be one.
They easily make twice what teachers make. It’s not “a lot of money” but it’s far more comfortable than the people who actually contribute to society.
Idealism and naivete, unfortunately. There’s a certain mystique attached to being an agent – you’re supposedly on the front line against crime, you defend ordinary people against criminals, etc. Everybody knows the CIA’s hands are not clean. But most USians still persist in the belief, bolstered by propaganda, that the FBI is basically good and incorruptible.
It’s similar to how many kids in the USSR – Vladimir Putin says he was one of them – dreamed of working for the KGB: you got to be a hero, and put your life on the line for something you believe in. Except that, you know, the KGB actually helped and defended people, unlike the FBI. But a lot of USians simply don’t know that.
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Studies show that careers seen as heroic in society often coincide with pay cuts–you’re already being paid in glory, why do you need cash too?
Dick Wolf
it isn’t much but it’s not a bad living. I was reading an article about an FBI whistleblower that got completely fucked when he was found out and 16 years into the job he was making $150k
(Also part of the plan is him making his wife go into finance and making a bunch of money there, something she is not interested in doing. He’s a bit of a jackass tbh)
Try telling him about who FBI actually serve. If he doesn’t listen, sabotage his background check if you are contacted for it.
Tbf you might not even have to actively sabotage it, having someone like an ML in your extended family will at best limit how far they let you ascend the ladder, if they even hire you at all.
Open the call with “new communist party, philadelphia branch, how can I help you today?” and done, you don’t need to say anything more after that, it won’t even enter one ear.
Lmao
Tell him to become an eviction lawyer if he wants to help people. Obviously on the side of renters. You might have to explain that to him if he was signing up for the FBI.
I would 100% have to explain this to him or he would 100% be working for the landlords and telling me they are people, too.
The list of shit the fbi has done is enormous, they are basically the american gestapo. Ask on the sub for an list of shit both the FBI and CIA have done, and he will probably change his mind when he sees what hes signing for.
Bro i also would have no idea what to do. Maybe try talking to him about the awful shit FBI has done? Or maybe convince him that firefighters are more of a help, this might be a good idea since it still makes him look like cool and masculine
What’s crazy is he has done that kind of stuff. In the last place he lived, he went through all the training and volunteered as wilderness search and rescue. Yeah, he was doing it to be cool and interesting, but it was legitimately helping people and something I definitely respected. I guess it didn’t give him enough authority or some shit idk
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What’s the dynamic here? Is he older than you? Does he respect your opinion?
These things matter because if he respects your opinion then maybe a beer and a more chill chat will help you articulate to him your viewpoint. Just wading in with FBI are dogs isn’t going to articulate to someone who thinks they help people that they don’t if you get me.
If he’s older than you? is he inherently ageist? Will your view just come off as naive to him if you are younger or if you are older will he just think you are lecturing him?
You’ll know him better than any of us so you need to tailor how you approach the conversation with that in mind. Yes in an ideal world power dynamics and such like this wouldn’t be the issue but I feel for Anglosphere males you’re fighting an immediate up hill battle as they are conditioned to think they are right nearly all the time. From what it sounds like the FBI are his power fantasy dream and if you attack that in the wrong way he’s going to shut down and disregard your argument.
As others have mentioned maybe articulate to him how he can use the skills he has developed in a very powerful way to help protect tenants and the less privileged of society. How he can make real change to people’s lives by using those skills to actually make a difference.
Focus on the positive vs the negatives maybe?
Sorry I can’t be more help 😔
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I meant more play to their ego and lead them that way. Is that not what you meant? Sorry if im not following 😭
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Oh! Onto onto and I agree. A big step myself in moving left was shedding that arrogance and subsequent chauvinism. Its such a trap.
The one I find myself in now is that I’m so full o’ communism I can’t handle conversations with western leftists or radical centrists because its like holding up a mirror to your past self and that’s both uncomfortable and also infuriating because they talk so much shite.
He’s maybe 2 years older than me. As far as respecting my opinion…ehhh idk. I think he judges people off income level way too much, so my HS teacher salary doesn’t exactly impress him. He thinks he is hot-shit, or at least acts like it. I feel like he is pretty insecure deep down.
I think you have been a fantastic help. Any input is helpful in me thinking through this. I definitely don’t want to attack or antagonize. Especially when he doesn’t even have the job or a guarantee of it, yet.
I know the type 😔
I’m glad I was able to help even if a smidge.
Yea, I don’t know this guy personally, but as someone who also grew up as an indoctrinated boy in the US, you’re spot-on. It sounds like “helping” in the FBI is most likely just fulfilling an adolescent-age masculinity fantasy. It’s not necessarily his fault, the major narrative surrounding the FBI is that everyone in the organization is a badass spy that busts bad guys with top-notch equipment. The Movies and TV never mention the class incentives that guide FBI policies. If I was pressed I would honestly say that I wouldn’t wanna talk to them because they’re scary or something. Basically nothing overtly political, but gets across the point that when they are more heavily armed than the cops and that Government Agents are a bit of a turnoff/red flag
Epstein him.
Mama mia
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Which I get. Catching serial killers or whatever is you know kind of cool or whatnot. But it doesn’t balance out the scales. If they want to catch killers, start by looking inward. I like your suggestions.
Plus, how many serial killers has the fbi ever caught? Is it even 10?
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