Well yes, that is how propaganda works. But I regret the kind of childish take of rejecting the same thing at each other : “you are brainwashed by propaganda !” “No it’s you !” “No it’s you !” “No you more than me !”…
I am a “communist”, but I did not become one by the power of my huge brain and rationality, facts and logic. I met communists that explained to me their point of view. I had access to communist content, that could clearly be seen as propaganda by “brainwashed 'muricans”. People around me explained me what fascism is and why we have to fight it. In short, I lived in an environment that allowed me to build a communist ideology.
And by that I do not me I was in a homogeneous communist community. Far from it. I was born and raised in a very anticommunist family. And I have been convinced by than to at some point !
The point I’m trying to make is that we are all product of the environment we live in. We can build around it by adhesion or in opposition. We can move and develop complex personal takes. But pointing at at someone and laughing at them for being stupid victim of propaganda does not distinguish them from anyone else, including us communists.
Thinking that individuals are independent, self-made, build independently by the power of their own will at should be laughed at for being influenced is a liberal and pretty masculinist take, I think. So let us take a step back, be better than them and not simply use their rethoric just to say “No, you are the brainwashed one”.
I do not think communism is better because capitalists are brainwashed. I think it is better because if was explained to me by someone nice and that was not judging me for being very much pro-capitalism. He did not considered I was stupid, but we tried to understand each other. He convinced me after years. Ridiculing the others makes you feel good, but is counterproductive is you goal is to help them. I will laugh at capitalists monarch all day because I do not consider them to be victims. I do not want to help them. I want to fight them. But I do not want to fight proletarians that grew up thinking communism is bad. I want to understand them, and them to understand me.
Sorry for the long post, but I feel really bad seeing this kind of post where people that should fight capitalism together just laugh at each other for being brainwashed.
what point are you even trying to make here?
that people generally don’t think about their political positions? that you’re on the political fringe? that consent is often manufactured?
why say this? what’s the point?
The point the comic makes is that most people base their political positions on the propaganda they consume. If you want to understand what the point of propaganda is, you can read the two books I linked in the other thread.
that consent is often manufactured?
I already brought that up. people synthesize their opinions from the information around them, big whup.
I was trying to get at why you think that this would change anyone’s mind or give any sort of more useful way of thinking to people? because it’s obviously not meant to be funny
Actually is was meant to be funny, but if that doesn’t appeal to your sense of humor then feel free to move on.
Insane take but okay
entire books have been written on the subject, but ok
And there are about a million books plainly explaining why communism wouldn’t work in a realistic context, but sure, have fun with the “everyone who doubts me is brainwashed” strawman argument mate
Just keep your weird takes outside the meme community…
That’s fascinating given that communism has worked literally every time it’s been tried. The quality of life, food security, education, employment in communist countries all improved drastically after revolutions. Let’s take a look at USSR as an example.
Russia went from a backwards agrarian society where people travelled by horse and carriage to being the first in space in the span of 40 years. Russia showed incredible growth after the revolution that surpassed the rest of the world:
- https://wid.world/document/soviets-oligarchs-inequality-property-russia-1905-2016/
- https://wid.world/document/appendix-soviets-oligarchs-inequality-property-russia-1905-2016-wid-world-working-paper-201710/
USSR provided free education to all citizens resulting in literacy rising from 33% to 99.9%:
- http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/archive/PubEdUSSR.htm
- http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/archive/anglosov.htm
- http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0000/000013/001300eo.pdf
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likbez
USSR doubled life expectancy in just 20 years. A newborn child in 1926-27 had a life expectancy of 44.4 years, up from 32.3 years thirty years before. In 1958-59 the life expectancy for newborns went up to 68.6 years. the Semashko system of the USSR increased lifespan by 50% in 20 years. By the 1960’s, lifespans in the USSR were comparable to those in the USA:
Quality of nutrition improved after the Soviet revolution, and the last time USSR had a famine was in 1940s. CIA data suggests they ate just as much as Americans after WW2 period while having better nutrition:
USSR moved from 58.5-hour work weeks to 41.6 hour work weeks (-0.36 h/yr) between 1913 and 1960:
USSR averaged 22 days of paid leave in 1986 while USA averaged 7.6 in 1996:
- https://www.ilo.org/public/libdoc/ilo/1994/94B09_66_englp2.pdf
- https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ebs.t05.htm
In 1987, people in the USSR could retire with pension at 55 (female) and 60 (male) while receiving 50% of their wages at a at minimum. Meanwhile, in USA the average retirement age was 62-67 and the average (not median) retiree household in the USA could expect $48k/yr which comes out to 65% of the 74k average (not median) household income in 2016:
- https://www.ilo.org/public/libdoc/ilo/1994/94B09_66_englp2.pdf
- https://www.cbsnews.com/news/could-you-get-by-on-the-average-americans-retirement-income/
GDP took off after socialism was established and then collapsed with the reintroduction of capitalism:
The Soviet Union had the highest physician/patient ratio in the world. USSR had 42 doctors per 10,000 population compared to 24 in Denmark and Sweden, and 19 in US:
-
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0735675784900482 (sci-hub for access)
-
USSR defeated a smallpox epidemic in a matter of 19 days https://www.rbth.com/history/331857-how-ussr-defeated-black-smallpox
-
The Social Consequences of Soviet Immunization Policies https://www.ucis.pitt.edu/nceeer/1997-812-03g-Hoch.pdf
Professor of Economic History, Robert C. Allen, concludes in his study without the 1917 revolution is directly responsible for rapid growth that made the achievements listed above possilbe:
Study demonstrating the steady increase in quality of life during the Soviet period (including under Stalin). Includes the fact that Soviet life expectancy grew faster than any other nation recorded at the time:
A large study using world bank data analyzing the quality of life in Capitalist vs Socialist countries and finds overwhelmingly at similar levels of development with socialism bringing better quality of life:
This study compared capitalist and socialist countries in measures of the physical quality of life (PQL), taking into account the level of economic development.
Finally, let’s take a look at how people who lived under communism feel now that they got a taste of capitalism?
The Free market paradise goes East chapters in Blackshirts and Reds details some more results of the transition to capitalism.
Very detailed post. Thanks for sharing. I’m saving it for now, but will give it a read later. You could also make it a post on its own.
good idea :)
Godamn you annihlated that guy, I’m not sure if he even has ashes left
😂
yogthos just did what we call a pro gamer move.
deleted by creator
Well done here @yogthos
thanks
It also doesn’t really matter what you think about communism in particular, and personally, I do think that communism is a good example for the difference in opinion people have, depending on where they grow up.
For example, I do see many US-Americans having weirdly strong opinions on something they could barely be further away from experiencing.
Like, I’ve been called a “commie” as some sort of pseudo-insult, because I’m from Europe where we have socialism, a.k.a. capitalism with the state coming in at a handful of places.Socialism is also very clearly working in several developed nations right as we speak. The USA is rather the odd-one-out here. I shouldn’t be the one being queried about how our system could possibly be working…
At the same time, I can tell for myself that I have weird reservations against communism that aren’t based in any actual knowledge.
I am much more left-leaning than most people here in Europe. I do have reservations against capitalism, which are based in personal experiences (mostly US-based IT companies fucking me over). And yet it takes a lot of self-awareness to keep an open mind when people here start raving about communism…
ratio
They are just brainwashed by propaganda
