I’ve been looking into all sorts of them recently: logseq, appflowy, vikunja, etc. What tools do you use? Why? What problems did you run into with the previous set of tools you used for this job?
Right now I’m primarily interested in finding a “zero-knowledge” (cloud provider doesn’t have access to my data) system for task management. Needs to be able to have recurring tasks and tasks organized in some interesting/useful ways (by projects/labels/something, maybe a kanban and table view). Deadlines and time tracking/planning interesting but not required.
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For me one of the most flexible and mature way to knowledge base, tasks and notes is an org-mode.
I have two main workflows. The first one is task management. I have a lot of recurring tasks with tags, deadlines, schedules, etc. All of them are living in org-files in my Nextcloud. On Android I’m using orgzly-reviwed for sync via WebDAV, on my work I’m using organice (via WebDAV) as a “web-version” and also I’m editing my notes in emacs on my laptop (but actually any text editor could be used).
The second one is a knowledge base. I’m using org-roam locally (and with a localhost web server, built in into emacs) and orgnote for Android/Web + synchronization. My knowledge base is Zettelkasten-based.
Orgzly-reviewed: https://github.com/orgzly-revived/orgzly-android-revived
Organice: https://github.com/200ok-ch/organice
Orgnote: https://github.com/Artawower/orgnote
Orgnote provide a way to encrypt all notes by your own key/password. With orgzly I’m relying on Nextcloud encryption.
The org.pdf documentation is 300 pages long O_O ! https://orgmode.org/org.pdf
Simple, spin up a Stirling PDF docker, split the org docs and create org notes either by section or by page, linking to the relevant PDF page
Now you’ve practiced using org mode by documenting org mode in org mode using your own words based off the org mode documentation
Yes… org-mode is more than 20 years old… It is a price of flexibility: I have a strong feeling that one can adjust org-mode to any workflow. But I do not use even a third of the org specification. There are a lot of cool blog posts like “org mode quick start” or “org mode basics”, I would recommend to start from such posts, not from a documentation.
I keep failing to make Zettelkasten and org-roam work for me. Do you use a single knowledge base for your whole life, with millions of tags and pages? Or should I be making separate directories for each project? Is the “daily journal” the best place to put everything, with well tagged entries?
You don’t have to answer all of those!
No, I have two different things:
- org-mode files with schedule, diary, tasks, etc.
- knowledge base, org-roam (orgnote). I have a single base but it contains graphs about topics and these graphs are not connected
I like that approach, because I use orgzly-reviwed on Android with a notifications. And because it is simpler to maintain knowledge base.
Got it, I see what you mean. Thanks for this!
Honestly, whatever works for you.
My preferred system is two big directories, one for your daily notes (dailies, journal, etc), and another for literally everything else.
This is how logseq is implemented, and can easily setup emacs org-roam to do it too. It’s very nice because you don’t need to worry about where to put something, throw it in your daily journals and get all the info down there, and link densely. If it’s about a specific topic, link to it and when you go to that topic you’ll see the info in the back links below (logseq does it automatically, emacs take a bit of config). You can then transcribe the important/summary/etc info from all of your aggregated back links into a single well thought out and planned document, or at least a single trimmed down one. Or, just leave all the info in the back links, whatever works best for you
This is really helpful, thanks!
I think I need more practice with knowing when to create a node. In the past, every single entry would look like this:
I went to [Alice] birthday party and met [Bob]. We talked about [clouds].
And that got very cumbersome. I like your suggestion of using back links to create a better summary document.
Biggest piece of advice, you don’t need to document everything you do in your life. If it’s info you might use in the future, a significant interaction or event, fun tidbit etc, add it in. If it’s just a casual conversation with someone that you don’t learn anything significant or it’s something that you’ll never link to or use again, just keep it as a memory.
I did a lot of over-capturing early on and got a lot of fatigue from it. Now my note making is as I run across things I’ll want to reference in the future (plans that were made, ideas to learn more about later, important phone calls/interactions, notes on articles, updates on projects, etc), with refinement to those ideas coming when I access them again later (or if I’m bored and have time). It’s no longer a drain to grow my PKM, it’s slower but much more meaningful info
This makes a lot of sense! I’m going to give it another shot with these insights in mind. I think if I frame it as a future-facing tool like you describe I’ll avoid a lot of my previous mistakes.
Thanks for explaining :)
Logseq has Org Mode…
It has org mode, but the links in logseq aren’t compatible with org-roam links, so either you use custom elisp to make logseq links into emacs compatible links and can’t follow links in logseq, or make emacs notes logseq compatible and can’t follow links in emacs.
Also, iirc logseq is planning to drop org mode support when they launch their database update, either that or have it available but not updated anymore.
Logseq, kept up to date on all my devices with Syncthing
I can’t understand Logseq, even though it seems appealing. I haven’t gone too deep yet but to me it feels weird that they say it’s simple and then their documentation is confusing and full of videos explaining how it works. That seems far from simple.
I tried and failed. I couldn’t figure out a pleasant way to be able to copy and paste code. The only thing I could come up was to use a different editor for those instances.
Now I’m stuck between Joplin for work and Obsidian for personal, until I finally make up my mind. I like that I can create a second account for Joplin and share just the work related notes while I’m using company infrastructure.
I also tried logseq and couldn’t really stick with it. Tried a few others like obsidian, joplin, Zettlr, Simplenote, even just vim and vscode with various plugins, but they all had their own drawbacks I couldn’t get over, like a lack of built-in cross-platform support, syncing, encryption, not being open source, etc.
I eventually found Notesnook which strikes a good balance for my needs: open source, end-to-end encrypted, easy to use, decent UI, doesn’t mangle code/formatting when copy/pasting, feature parity across platforms; I use MacOS, Windows, Linux and Android and they all have clients that have feature parity - even the web client is really good!
The only thing I would say it’s currently missing is to release the source code for the server, but that’s on their roadmap and actively worked on. It was this commitment to openness that lead me to try it and after some brief time start paying for it.
Thanks for sharing. I’ll be keeping an eye on this project. Looks promising!
Interesting, I have been able to use it for code no problem. They even support different language types to add colors automatically.
I manage my entire life with Logseq. Syncing is done via github, since I have nothing to hide there. I would recommend setting up your own gitlab server instead.
Although not open source, I use Obsidian since its really extensible, works completely local and has open source extensions. I thought about using Logseq too. I’d never trust Microsoft with my personal notes tho.
I sync it via Nextcloud, works somewhat with my phone, too (I have to manually download it, and I set it to upload automatically).
Between PCs it works like magic.
I’ve loved Obsidian since I started using it.
If I moved to OSS, it looks like Logseq would be closest.
There’s Trilium-Next too, I’ve been trying it for a day or so and it floats my boat better than logseq so far. My notebook is on QOwnNotes right now, it’s fantastic but on the simpler side
Up-doot
I think I have a good one for you. You are probably familiar with Linear, a JIRA alternative. Well here’s pretty much a FOSS clone: https://github.com/makeplane/plane
I self-host, and since the one thing I dont like is it’s document library, I pair it with self-hosted Outline: https://github.com/outline/outline
Combined it’s a really solid setup.
Zim
Its amazing. I keep my whole life in there. Also has tons of plugins that probably meet your tasks needs.
I store it in an a encrypted luks volume that I upload to the cloud, so its zero knowledge on all the clouds.
Zim really is amazing, its the perfect balance with its simple plain text files in folders data structure, but powerful search and back linking. And I love linking to other files on the local file system.
How do you do the LUKS volume upload to cloud? Is it for syncing between devices or just backup? Personally I use (self hosted) NextCloud to sync my Zim between devices.
Just backup. You just have to pause the luks mount and then you upload it like any file.
I’ve enjoyed Zim in the past but not being able to access it on mobile caused me to migrate. Do you have a way to access your notes on the go?
Those are only .md files, I guess any text editor will open them.
Yeah, no reminders and tasks, but notes should be accessible from anything and git can sync it. Never tried it, but text files were the reason I choose zim in the first place. I want it simple.
No, I wouldn’t want my sensitive notes on an insecure device
Ironic, given that iOS and Android are more secure than “real” OSes such as MacOS, Linux or Windows
Absolutely not true, unless you use a >20 char passwords on your mobile device.
Mobile devices are designed for convenience. By definition, they’re less secure.
Same. Perfectly simple to start, and you can build from there.
I just dump stuff if I not in the mood to organize it.
I use Joplin, there’s desktop and mobile clients, sync with your own WebDAV server and you’ve a Kanban plugin. It also does checklists, tables and all the stuff people like. Stores everything in markdown so that’s a win.
Same, only I self-host a Joplin server. I have yet to find something that’s nearly as versatile with so little effort.
Hmm… besides note sharing what’s the advantage of the server over WebDAV? I kina picked WebDAV because I already had the infrastructure in place for other things, and let’s face it, it is a piece of cake to get nginx run a WebDAV server.
Webdav is a great option too. I don’t know that it’s a question of advantage so mush as a matter of preference, honestly. I just like to have my services as segregated as possible. I use Radicale for contacts and calendar. That way, if radicale fails, I lost my ability to sync those, but get to keep syncing my notes and such, if Joplin fails, I lost that ability but my calendars and contacts still sync. I also share a lot of notes, lists and stuff like that with my wife, which makes it easier.
What I have in terms of self-hosted over 14 different services in ProxMox could have been solved by having a simple Nextcloud instance, but I feel nextcloud is overkill for my needs, and if it fails, all my services fail, so I moved away from it about 6 months ago or so.
by having a simple Nextcloud instance, but I feel nextcloud is overkill for my needs, and if it fails,
I do like to keep things separate as well and Nextcloud is an ongoing source of issues and a piece of shit a software. Since I don’t share notes I find WebDAV to be good enough and simple enough not to fail.
My setup is mostly Syncthing, FileBrowser, Baikal, Joplin, FreshRSS, WebDAV (for a bunch of those and as a way to have mobile access to the Syncthing/FileBrowser data. Simple and realiable.
Our infrastructure seems pretty similar, except for the Radicale/Baikal part. I also have a Kavita instance, Vaultwarden, Frigate, Stirling Pdf, Immich (but I’m seriously thinking of dropping it as it sucks resources like crazy and tends to break often with very large libraries) and an instance of Wazuh to make sure I have as little potential vulnerabilities as possible in hosts and docker containers.
My wife says I spend too much time playing with my servers and network, but that keeps me home instead of outside, so you would think that’s a good thing 🤣
Yeah I get the wife part 😂 I use KeepassXC for password so sync happens over Syncthing for desktop/laptop and WebDAV for mobile. Frigate is something I will eventually get in but first I’ve to decide on a good camera brand that can work 100% offline, right now all signs point at AMCrest but I’m a bit undecided.
Frigate is wonderful, and getting better all the time. I also run Scrypted, which is another fantastic tool! The scrubbing on Scrypted NVR is a lot less painful, but a lot more expensive. I enjoy supporting small open source projects, though.
I did it pretty inexpensive in the cameras front. Got a bunch of TP-Link Tapo cameras, registered them in the app, set the rtsp and Onvif on Frigate, and completely blocked their internet access. Works like a charm with cameras in the $25-65 range.
Many have mentioned org-mode. I used it for years but have moved on to todo.txt and markdown. I use syncthing to keep notes up to date on my phone and computer. I edit with whatever is available on my desktop and I use markor notes on my phone.
I think this setup only lacks the recurring tasks option. I think org-mode can do that but I use my calendar for that.
This is a highly personal topic so I’d suggest trying as many things as you can. Something will stick eventually.
I used to do this, but todo.txt is a dead format now unfortunately, the maintainers left a long time ago. Tasks.org is where its at, open-source, sync how you want, tagging, recurring tasks.
Is it dead or complete? For my purposes, it doesn’t need any changes.
Try asking the maintainers for clarification or an update on anything. They’re gone.
This is a highly personal topic so I’d suggest trying as many things as you can.
Seconded!
I’ve always used joplin mobile for notes and vikunja for tasks and reminders. Vikunja has projects and labels for organizing tasks, and supports list, table, kanban, and a timeline view. There’s a paid version (for corporations, I think) at https://vikunja.io/, but there are loads of other free to use instances. I personally use https://todo.projectsegfau.lt/. Edit: I wholeheartedly hope you at least try vikunja https://try.vikunja.io/, because it’s one of my most used and beloved services.
Tasks.org for tasks and Joplin for notes. Both can be synced with various technologies.
LogSec is really nice and flexible.
I use the app opentask. Based on your criteria, it’s exactly what you’re looking for. It’s all stored locally on your phone, it has the ability to set recurring tasks, and you can create categories of preset and custom tasks. Deadlines can be set as far into the future as you need, down to the minute. It’s available on F-Droid.
Vim with markdown
Foam is pretty good https://foambubble.github.io/foam/
