Personally I think not having karma limits is nice currently! I understand why they were used but grinding karma as a lurker on reddit was frustrating.
Personally I think not having karma limits is nice currently! I understand why they were used but grinding karma as a lurker on reddit was frustrating.
Are you genuinely interested or just looking to start a fight? I know recreational outrage is a thing on Reddit and I had hoped to leave it there.
No I’m genuinely interested to hear your perspective and why it was a point of contention
Removed by mod
@dessalines@lemmy.ml this is exactly why tone policing is bullshit moderation policy.
Your modteam is allowing this transphobic screed to exist, and has in fact unbanned the user that posted it despite the very very obvious fact that they are a transphobe doing concern-trolling and “just asking questions” style veiled bigotry, while simultaneously banning everyone that has reacted to their behaviour by rightfully calling them the names they deserve to be called.
This policymaking is what results in people in the left calling someone a terf or a fascist getting banned while the fascists and terfs roam free. The site will be taken over by this and the left will slowly be banned and pushed out by it. The fact that the team can’t seem to get into their heads that trans people might get a little fucking heated when bigots are allowed to exist and clearly defended by some of the incompetent members the modteam is another part of the problem.
You should get some trans people on your team to keep the rest of the idiots on it making these shit decisions in check. This nerd should absolutely be rebanned and every other person that copped a ban over this shit should be unbanned.
Demanding that lgbt people, racial groups and the lower classes engage with their oppressors in a suitable “tone” without ever getting heated is unrealistic. The outcome of tone policing is that the oppressed get banned from spaces when they don’t behave with the right tone when discussing their oppression while those doing the oppressing (this fucker) come to dominate it more and more. The oppressed come to be alienated by it (leaving the space as a result) while the oppressors come to be empowered by it. Tone policing should NEVER come before principle and protection of the marginalized.
ty for articulating this so well o7
It’s pleasant to see that the Lemmy team saw reason on this. I intentionally used a few names in it for effect and that was a risk to me getting banned but seemed to work out demonstrating that a person can be completely correct and should be listened to despite their tone. Wasn’t even really intentional either I was just fucking heated over the way this was being handled. Lemmy does need some on-point trans mods that are willing to argue with the rest of the team internally over poor decision making and do some internal education.
What the hell is this? Trans person here. This is not the thread to start concern trolling about trans issues. If you really want a space to talk freely about your concerns you can start a community or even your own instance.
Yeah, this is just run of the mill transphobic sealioning. They even complain about reddit having been run by tankies and repeated the “current thing” conservative reactionary trope. I’m totally fine if this kind of person doesn’t feel welcome here.
He was asked multiple times to answer questions.
I hate to say it but they were asked - what they have to say may be unappealing but someone did tell them to say it.
They were brief, another user asked for a longer version. The user even intro’ed their comment with “my reticence to speak freely”, and then went ahead explaining since the other user seemed genuinely interested.
In a way this whole episode including your participation is very relevant to “avoid as the user base grows”. I also don’t think concern troll fits here, or maybe we use different definitions.
Personally, I wish people could get along with each other despite having different points of view. That’s one major, major value I see in platforms like this. I want to be exposed to views challenging my bubble.
Someone asked me, repeatedly, about my position. I asked them if they were sure they wanted to read the answer. Why are you accusing me of derailing and not the person who pressed for an answer?
I understand that on Lemmy you are able to block users. I suggest you block me so you won’t have to see this comment. That seems like an appropriate response for a comment which offends you.
He’s literally responding to a user who said
So he explained his perspective. Concern trolling lmao.
If you want a space where you don’t encounter other perspectives, there are plenty of spaces like that both in the real world and on the internet.
I am completely appalled at this instance right now for allowing this absolutely vile comment to persist on here, but since some reactionary admin decided your disgusting falsehoods should remain up, allow me to provide an extremely easily-found data point you “couldn’t find” in your search:
Regret rates for sex reassignment surgery are among the LOWEST for ANY type of surgery OF ANY KIND. They’re even lower than the complication rate! (Yes, really!) How’s that for hard data?
Given the fact that this was incredibly easy for me to find (a single Google search pulled it up easily), I can only conclude that you “couldn’t find” evidence that transitioning is beneficial because you weren’t actually looking for it; you were looking for evidence of exactly the opposite point.
If this comment is indicative of things you said to your relative who took their life, then you should absolutely feel partially responsible; this kind of patronizing pseudo-concern BS is exactly the kind of toxicity that makes trans people feel that they will never be accepted by the people in their lives.
I’ve removed it. Please understand I’m a human and overloaded
Apologies if I made unwarranted assumptions, and thank you for your efforts to keep this community free from toxicity!
They’re probably simply overloaded right now. Traffic has shot up several fold over the course of a few days and many of the people don’t understand the rules yet. From my recollection, these sorts of comments would usually be removed fairly promptly. For a comparison of mod teams, /r/moderatepolitics has 18 moderators (plus bots) compared to this community’s 3. Likewise, the instance has 7 moderators.
Exactly. Removed it now. Sorry for the growing pains.
As Sphere noted below, an admin removed and then restored that comment. Is this mostly a matter of jurisdiction where admins are trying to leave the operation of communities to community moderators except in cesspool conditions? Having experienced the unpleasantness of Reddit admins undermining my subreddit, I would love to see lemmy.ml not go too far that way.
I’ll get in touch
Thanks. If you don’t have time, I would understand if you did not.
I’m afraid it’s worse than that: https://lemmy.ml/comment/546175
You’re saying you haven’t found any evidence and that proves there isn’t improvement but it’s impossible for any properly done study to prove any changes to those categories. The simple reason is there is no environment that has existed for long enough to do a comparison. It’s impossible to conduct a proper study on the life expectancy of trans people if they transition at 12 years old or 20 years old because the treatments have not been around long enough and people can live a long time. Even a study that tracks suicide rates over 5 years based on treatment type takes much more than 5 years.
The only studies that can be done need to use historic data and we can’t change the past plus retroactive comparisons are super dicey and very prone to bias. Remember how dead patients were added post-moterm to that COVID trial published from Egypt which totally skewed the results? That study lead to large numbers of people taking ivermectin and fueled the antivax movement worldwide https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/93658
The absence of research studies can not be used to prove or disprove something and should not form your opinions based on this. As least people aren’t trying and doing it poorly then people write catchy articles about it and it creates whole industries (I’m looking at you, nutritional science).
@dessalines@lemmy.ml please reconsider reprioritizing civility fetishism, particularly in defense against transphobia. The course of events here was extremely uncool and is tantamount to making this space systemically transphobic.
All it will take to drive trans people off is for you to ban them when they defend themselves against transphobic hate. And all it will take for transphobes to make that happen is for transphobes to harass people here until they react. This pattern has happened many times on many platforms and I’m surprised if you’re not aware of it.
I’m torn on this. One the one hand there’s something to be said against insta-banning a person just because they wrote “I don’t know if a 12-year-old can meaningfully consent to gender affirming care”. On the other hand you get people who engage in that kind of discourse just to hide their power level. e.g. one of the links in the above-discussed comment goes to transgendertrend dot com, a website I did not know of until today, but it took me exactly one look at its main page and its “about us” section to suspect that anyone who linked anything from there must be way more radicalized than the stage where they are “open to evidence and to honest discussion and debate”. As a filthy moderate myself, I know that a fellow filthy moderate would at least make the minuscule effort to find a source that pretends not to be propaganda.
The author of that manifesto two levels up is not making an argument out of the bottom of their heart; they are proselytizing. They are engaging in what the Musk fan, Tim Urban, once described in his blog as “thinking like an attorney”:
“Civility fetishism” is a real problem and I have personally seen it destroy some spaces I have held dear, via attorneys attorney-ing all day and shouting “debate me, debate me, it’s just facts and logic, what are you so afraid of”. So I fully understand the weariness of the person I am replying to.
As you mention, “just asking questions” is a common way to backdoor hate against marginalized groups, and its acceptance is a sign that a space condones the reactionary view. Anyone that is here in good faith looking to understand trans rights without implicitly challenging them should be directed to a separate space where they can learn. Outside of that, they should et dunked on, have their message removed, and face a ban.
The only reason it is tolerated in any form here is that at least one admin (which one we don’t know) is cool with transphobia and doesn’t see it as being so bad, and they can get away with it because transphobia is normalized. If you swapped the scenario to something that is not normalized, like “just asking questions about the inferiority of black people”, you’d see a stronger response because anti-blackness, while still present, is less tolerated in its explicit form.
Notably, the trans person that reacted to this harassment was banned site-wide while the transphobe was not and had their comment restored by an admin, overriding the mod that removed it.
Bigots will play that game all day and win. @dessalines@lemmy.ml I know you’re busy but this is unacceptable.
I’m not gonna lie, when someone calls out about censorship and not being able to talk about trans I’m inclined to think they’re not people that have interesting to say.
But your comments is exactly how we should discuss a subject, thank you
Although I think that in an enormous community like reddit, YouTube, Facebook, etc. the moderation is necessarily a bit aggressive since it takes time to analyze the real intentions. And with the army of bots, and trolls organizing, or masking their intend behind falsely neutral point of view, it’s easy to start blasting.
Still, I agree that lots of mods, drunk on power or following the subreddit trend was abusing and just censoring.
Ps: sorry my comment is not really a response to this one specifically haha
This is pure comedy ✌
Others please note I did not see the above message, but instead it was already removed by a moderator.
This comment is well researched and helpful! Thank you