This meme is from 2004. History repeats itself.

    • @matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
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      6 months ago

      It’s important to note that the real disparity may be even far worse.

      OCHA-OPT (the committee gathering this data) is strict about verifying validity of Palestinian casualties, requiring two independent, verified and non-affiliated sources. Casualties in Israel, however, they trust the media at face value. They also exclude a lot of Palestinian casualties even when verified in certain situations. Example, and I quote them:

      People who were killed or injured in conflict-related incidents that took place in Israel and did not involve residents of the oPt are also excluded.

      oPt (occupied Palestinian territories) are the areas that Israel does not directly oversee. So most of Israel is not oPt by their criteria.

      Israel is notorious for restricting journalists reporting on Israeli crimes, and has murdered journalists countless of times, like last year the Christian Palestinian Shireen Abu Akleh reporting on the forced expulsion of Palestinians from Sheikh Jarrah (so not even in a war zone area). This causes many casualties to go unverified and thus undocumented.

      And Israel has been caught lying before about its own casualties, like the 40 beheaded babies.

      Take that as you will.

        • @winterayars@sh.itjust.works
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          46 months ago

          They’ve got a long road ahead of them to kill that many people but i admit the thought occurred to me as well. There does seem to be a ratio being followed here.

          • @matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
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            16 months ago

            Given Israel’s rhetoric, they are literally letting us know the number will climb much higher. But the West is too busy condemning Hamas, and will sponsor yet another genocide in the modern era.

    • @ebenixo@sh.itjust.works
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      76 months ago

      So seriously, fuck the closet racist xenophobes masquerading as defenders of freedom and democracy here. Tools of the state.

      • @Jaccident@lemm.ee
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        16 months ago

        Didn’t look like you’re replying to anyone supporting Hamas.

        Also, there is an alternative #2 in your scenario. “Know your enemy would lose too much western support too readily if they were to fine on all the civilian targets they would like to”.

      • @matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
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        06 months ago

        Imagine how things may go if Israel attempted to use Jews as human shields against Hamas.

        You mean like putting many settlements and civilians right on the border of Gaza, a concentration camp and active war Zone? Or allowing a rave dance to occur at the gates of a concentration camp and active war zone, and next to a military base that would be targeted by Hamas? And sprinkle in some IDF tanks while you’re at it.

        Wait, we don’t have to imagine it.

  • Queen HawlSera
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    1106 months ago

    It isn’t anti-Semitism to criticize israel, it’s just noticing the obvious.

      • Queen HawlSera
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        16 months ago

        The only one I can think of is the idea that the Jews made up the Holocaust to guilt the West into giving up Israel… Which is indeed antisemetic, and asburd

    • @seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org
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      386 months ago

      My favorite was when Bernie Sanders was called antisemitic for criticizing Israel. His response was something along the lines of “It isn’t antisemitic to criticize a right-wing government in Israel.” It must’ve taken all the patience in the world to not add “you fucking toolbags”.

      • Queen HawlSera
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        16 months ago

        I’m not a Christian, but if Bernie was the second coming…

        I’d be only slightly surprised

    • @Omega_Haxors
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      6 months ago

      Fascists get away with conflating Judaism and Zionism because they don’t teach that Zionism has absolutely nothing to do with Judaism, and actually goes against a lot of their values. It’s actually been around for quite awhile; you know the crusades, when they went around killing a bunch of civilians to set up settlements? Those were Christian Zionists.

      That’s why it’s anti-semitic to conflate the two. One is a religion and the other is a fascist genocidal colonialist movement. So next time you see some german lady shouting down a holocaust survivor for calling out Israeli apartheid (yes, this literally happened, and it was the Jewish guy who got punished) you’ll see it for what it is. It’s not complicated, it’s a clear cut case of modern day nazism.

      • Queen HawlSera
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        26 months ago

        Amen, who was it who said that the way to find out what group is getting away with too much bullshit is to look at what group you’re not allowed to criticize in any Circle?

    • @MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      No. Hundreds of thousands will die in response to hundreds dying. The comic is still fully accurate even if “a single missile” is still condemnable.

        • @explodicle@local106.com
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          96 months ago

          I felt just like this after 9/11. I don’t know enough about your country to tell you what the right thing to do is. But I wish that the USA could go back in time and just gradually assassinate Al Queda with the CIA instead or something. Those occupations were doomed from the start.

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
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            236 months ago

            The CIA is literally the reason the Al Queda exists. has consistently been the biggest force funding and training terrorists groups around the world. Al Queda is just the modern iteration on the Mujahideen whom US was propping up in the 80s.

            • KNova
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              126 months ago

              Yup. Listen to the latest season of Blowback podcast. CIA sheltered/evacuated a bunch of Al Quaeda leaders right before the invasion of Afghanistan began.

          • @winterayars@sh.itjust.works
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            26 months ago

            The US government at the time did not want to do any such thing. Project For A New American Century, the think tank most of the Bush administration officials came from, openly wrote about how they were hoping for a “new Pearl Harbor” they could use to take the US into war with Iraq. Later, President Bush got a memo about how Al Qaeda was going to attack the US mainland and he did nothing. Then 9/11 happened and the government lied the country into a war with Iraq. What part of this makes you think they were going to do anything about Al Qaeda (other than giving them more funds maybe)?

        • @matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
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          186 months ago

          Where did I mock the victims? Do not put words in my mouth. Can you not make a half-sound argument without lying?

            • @GitProphet@lemmy.sdfeu.org
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              6 months ago

              From what I can see, @matcha_addict@lemy.lol is not mocking the victims of this tragedy, but rather criticising the media for writing about the israeli deaths caused by the hamas attack, yet hardly making a sound about the palestine deaths caused by israel.

        • @MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          It IS NOT a disproportionate representation. THAT’S THE POINT.

          I am very sorry you fail to realize what death Israel will doll out in response, but this comic is completely accurate in the proportions displayed.

          You LITERALLY have fighter jets and bombers striking back against … paragliders with guns…

          Again, NO ONE except fucking losers are saying Hamas did anything good. That doesn’t make murdering dozens of thousands of Palestinians OK.

      • @datelmd5sum@lemmy.world
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        -106 months ago

        I don’t think disproportionate response doctrine from countries like the US and Israel should come as a surprise after more than half a century of conflict. Why murder 100 innocent people of your opponent when you know they will murder 1000 innocents of your people in response?

        • It may not be a surprise but it’s still disgusting and worth calling out.

          Take 9/11 for an example, in response to a few thousand dying, America invaded Iraq (who was not even responsible) and killed several orders of magnitude more people. As well as looting their wealth, subordinating their government and economy to American interests, and effectively occupying them for two decades. Anytime an American says “never forget” they should be reminded how thoroughly soaked in blood they are.

          Likewise, when zionists shed crocodile tears for a few hundred dead festival goers who were depraved enough to go raving only a few short kilometers from the world’s largest concentration camp. They must be reminded of what they have done to Palestine. Invasion. Displacement. Occupation. Ethnic cleansing. Apartheid. Imprisonment. Genocide.

        • FaceDeer
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          176 months ago

          So anyone who follows the Geneva Conventions is a doomed fool?

    • @matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
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      266 months ago

      “history repeats itself” as in the people who only condemn needless killing when Hamas does it, but ignore the Palestinian cause the rest of the time.

      • DarkGamer
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        -306 months ago

        It’s almost like motivation, methods, intentions, and circumstances matter and not just body count. For example, intentionally targeting civilians to maximize civilian deaths is not the same as accidentally killing civilians with collateral damage while trying to minimize civilian deaths.

        • @money_loo@1337lemmy.com
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          6 months ago

          Guess which side this is, then:

          Scores of people, mainly women and children, have been killed in multiple air strikes on the main road connecting north and south Gaza, as people carried out an Israeli order to flee their homes.

          According to the Ministry of Health, at least 70 people have been killed in three separate air strikes on the road, with the latest killing at least 40.

          The Israeli army said in a statement on Friday that civilians must leave Gaza City in the north, and that they would not be allowed to return “until we say so” and until “a statement is issued allowing this”.

          However, locals have reported a number of attacks on the Salah al-Din Road since then. Survivors, speaking to local media, implored others not to make the journey for fear of being targeted by the Israelis.

          “Do not leave,” a distraught survivor of the attacks told local media.

          “They bombed the convoy. They bombed it on Salah al-Din Road. They bombed the ambulances.”

          Another survivor said the attacks were a “direct targeting of women and children”.

          “I was in the truck. There were about 200 people. 90 percent were women and children. We took the main road that the entire world knew we were taking. My entire family were with me. Out of nowhere, they dropped a bomb. Everything was black and I lost conscience for 10 mins,” they told local media.

          “When I woke up I saw a mother lying with her baby, whose brain was right next to him. I heard the ambulances then they bombed again. I took cover and after a few minutes tried to check the damage, then they bombed again.”

        • @matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
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          306 months ago

          When Israeli soldiers are bragging about raping and torturing people, it’s very clear what their intentions are

                • @money_loo@1337lemmy.com
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                  196 months ago

                  The officer, whose name remains barred from publication, served in the Defense Ministry’s Civil Administration, which is tasked with overseeing the day-to-day management of the West Bank. The officer, a major, was responsible for issuing permits for Palestinians to enter and work in Israel, a position of power that he repeatedly exploited in order to receive sexual favors from Palestinians.

                  Wow, you sure dismissed that as an isolated incident real quick!

                  I’m sure it never happened again now that they caught the only guy who got caught for doing it!

                • @matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
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                  146 months ago

                  Hamas is not a state or government. It is a militia to fight occupation. It is nowhere near as organized as Israel with its governing body. You cannot equate the two.

                  Israel does not oppose this. There are mountains of evidence of Israelis torturing and raping children, pregnant women and elderly Palestinians. There is mountains of evidence of Palestinians being burned alive, or forced to destroy their own homes with their bare hands. The magnitude of cruelty is unmatched.

                  Do you want more evidence? I am happy to provide. But it seems you reject it even when presented evidence.

                • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
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                  06 months ago

                  That’s just one of countless examples from a two seconds of googling. It’s the height of intellectual dishonesty to try and frame it as an isolated incident.

        • @lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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          136 months ago

          while trying to minimize civilian deaths

          If that’s what they’re trying to do, they really fucking suck at it.

          And the motivation, methods, intentions, and circumstances don’t matter a bit to the victims and their loved ones.

    • @OsrsNeedsF2P
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      86 months ago

      Yes, it’s not a perfect caricature, Crimea river

    • @Omega_Haxors
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      6 months ago

      Rules of the internet: you can safely discard everything that comes before the “, but”

        • @matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
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          66 months ago

          The soundness of your argument should not depend on your stance. It is a common tactic to state that you are “pro-X” but criticize X, because people are more likely to sympathize with your criticism that way. The commenter you replied to is simply reminding us of this.

      • @Veltoss@lemmy.world
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        266 months ago

        Ignoring of course the countless children they kill who aren’t part of hamas. The ratio of children to adults killed by Israel can only be reached by doing it on purpose.

        You “switching sides” because you don’t like the media reporting on these murders is a joke and I can only assume a lie, because it doesn’t make sense.

        The media reporting stuff doesn’t change what is happening nor the morals and ethics involved. Silly to blame the media for you choosing to support the murder of innocents.

          • blazera
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            166 months ago

            How convenient, when israel kills civilians its because palestine is hiding behind them, in their own country, being bombed. Its only heartless civilian massacres the other way around.

            • DarkGamer
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              -26 months ago

              As if the cartoon this thread is about wasn’t claiming moral superiority for the other side.

                • @istdaslol@feddit.de
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                  -36 months ago

                  Israel is expanding into the West Bank, not Gaza. They are resisting nobody. Israel even removed all of its citizens from that area. They are terrorists. They are founded by and doing the bidding for Iran.

      • NoIWontPickaName
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        6 months ago

        Yes the Israelis don’t kill children for throwing rocks and then call them soldiers

      • Franzia
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        156 months ago

        I’d like to add even more context: ~45% of Palestine is under the age of 14.

          • Franzia
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            96 months ago

            Palestinians do not have consistent access to clean water, no I don’t think they have consistent access to condoms.

            • Franzia
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              126 months ago

              FYI links to her study, about Demography, not access to contraception - lead to a 404 page.

              Here’s a prrtty informal survey about Gazan access to contraception, it sort of suggests they have, like I said, inconsistent access to contraception.

              https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31856794/

              The article you linked to makes many excellent points. When you’re poor, bored, and chock full of bombing-induced PTSD, having many kids is seen as a good idea.

    • @AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      If civilians are civilians…

      "Amongst Israelis, 69% of those killed were civilians and 31% members of the IDF. The number of Israeli civilians killed, from attacks by Palestinian armed groups or individuals, has declined steadily, peaking in 2002 at an average of 22 deaths per month, and dropping markedly to an average of one civilian per month in 2007. 6/

      In contrast to Israeli figures, however, Palestinian civilian fatalities have remained high. Palestinian civilians, killed by Israeli security forces, peaked with an average of 35 deaths per month in 2002, and again in 2004. In 2007 they dropped slightly to an average of ten civilian deaths per month."

      https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-208380/

      Both sides kill civilians with abandon, and Israel is markedly better at it. Major media doesn’t seem to care very much about Palestinian civilians though.

        • @AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          Fair, but the point is that there is no side here playing by the no civilians rule, yet only Palestinians are called out for it.

          The headline of the newest chapter in this shitshow for some reason is “How could Hamas attack Civilians?! Civilians?!” When the reality is that hasn’t really been a red line to the Israeli government or Hamas. Never has been.

          Its evil all day, don’t get me wrong. The twisted thing is that somehow Israel is somehow perpetually marketed as being the good guys playing by the rules of engagement in spite of being no different with regards to killing non-enemy combatants.

          Why are israeli civilian concert goers a global tragedy, while Palestinian civilian casualties past and present just another thursday? Why doesn’t the world lose its shit at 10 Palestinian civilians killed a month? Are Palestinians somehow universally recognized as having less value as human beings than Israelis?

          • @Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            286 months ago

            Are Palestinians somehow universally recognized as having of less value as human beings than Israelis?

            Yes, at least among Western media and its consumers