Dutch news outlets are coming forward saying the elections are rigged and people were forced (sometimes at gunpoint) to vote in favor of Russia.
Also the number of the population was somehow rigged or something.
What are your thoughts and sources on this? Lot of libs keep throwing it in my face because it’s the state media that reports it.
I mean, what else do you expect from libs? The liberal brain is completely incapable of comprehending the concept of a democratically arrived at consensus that is at odds with the interest of the West.
They sorta were forced. By Ukraine, murdering them since 2014, opressing their language and culture, brutally treating everyone who had any contact with Russians, sending death squads, making terror bombing even in the middle of war, making law that taking part in the referendum be punishable by long term prison. It’s pure case of what Mao said about making clear distinction between ally and enemy - Ukraine went to great lenghts to ensure it is the enemy.
I remember when they did the same thing about Crimea. The media made it seem like Russian snuck into a completely foreign land and faked a vote. Go back and look at the coverage. If you want to judge the events of today judge them by their history.
Are we starting to trust Western news sources regarding Ukraine? Isn’t there enough proof how false and shitty they tends to be?
No. But in order to debunk them isn’t it nice to have some proof to our statements?
The media says they had to fill in the ‘yes’ by force, or under supervision. They say Russian soldiers voted as well. They say the bar for number of votes was reached but that also 2/3 of the population has fled, making it a false referendum. They say independent commisioners were send to check things but that they somehow do not count as independent.
That’s an awful lot of statements. And naturally I don’t believe it. But I can’t prove it with anything. Just saying ‘western media bad’ is not helping my case in any way. So I’m looking for ways to debunk it.
Edit: because the sad thing is, otherwise I will just concede my defeat regarding this one. In no way is it useful to start sounding like a right wing conspiracy loonie, unless I find some helpful things to back my claims.
Literally none of that is true and they have no evidence for it. It is not up to us to prove them wrong, it is up to them to back up their claims. All they have is “anonymous/Ukrainian government sources say…”
There are videos on YouTube of people voting at the polling stations, there are interviews with the people there. There were even international observers present who the west is now threatening to sanction.
The turnout was also very high by the way, especially in the DPR and LPR, and even in the other two regions despite Ukrainian threats to murder or imprison anyone who votes in the referendum.
The media says they had to fill in the ‘yes’ by force, or under supervision.
I’m pretty sure this guy covered the referendum in Donetsk. A couple of journalists from there I follow and a veritable flood of videos in Telegram didn’t show anything of the sort either.
They say Russian soldiers voted as well.
Say a half-truth, if you want to make up a convincing lie. Classic. Yeah, voting for soldiers of DPR/LPR on and near the frontlines was organized. Many of them are ethnic Russians, what a shocker=)
2/3 of the population has fled, making it a false referendum
A lot of people fled Donbass to escape the shellings, understandably, as to how that makes the referendums “false”, I’m not sure. Turnout among the people left there (still millions, mind you) was very high.
They say independent commisioners were send to check things but that they somehow do not count as independent.
Well, how’s “somehow”? International law is a shitshow in general, honestly, so I wouldn’t be surprised if observers that were there “don’t count”, but it would be nice to hear something specific.
Yeah like others said there are no real sources for the West. You raise some good point that I will look further into.
Despite the West pulling shit out of their ass regularly it’s still good to look at what they say and how we can respond.
Thanks for the input.
The “western” media has no sources themselves apart from scribbles on used toilet paper brought by the CIA. Same for us, we have no sources to back up our claims. The places of our interest are literal warzone with heavy intelligence and counter-intelligence work being conducted.
The only source of information that was supposed to be “unbiasied” are the international observers, but there is always one big “but”: whatever they say doesn’t matter, West got it covered
To add to this I also have to be very critical about the homophobic and transphobic shit of Putin’s speech. I think we would all like to keep the critical in critical support.
Yeah Putin says some cringy shit that we absolutely do not support. But he also said some things that were really spot on about how the west has looted the global south and relied on Russian energy and resources and Chinese manufacturing to prop up its own failing economy since the 1980s.
As usual a mixed bag with this Russian government, but then you can say the same about the Taliban, definitely some very distasteful people and views there but they still kicked the US’ ass and China is working with them to integrate Afghanistan into the Eurasian connectivity and development network.
We have to look at these things dialectically. A government can be at the same time a progressive force in international geopolitics and reactionary in their domestic politics. They can be economically progressive but socially regressive like Iran. Stalin spoke a little about this in “Principles of Leninism”.
Yes you are correct. I think I was mainly trying to raise awareness that he had said this as I had not seen it posted anywhere here (maybe I missed it).
I don’t think you have to debunk known liars.
Unfortunately you have. Not for myself, but for the people out there that have not yet joined our side. We need to debunk it for them. I know that I need to be very cautious about what I read, but your average lib/socdems/baby leftist may not know it.
You’ll just spend all your time responding. What’s the point? They don’t care what they’re saying. If you’re talking to people you actually know then, yes, engage with them. They’re liars. The majority of people know they’re liars. That’s what they deserve to hear. You aren’t going to win them over because they’re disingenuous. Better to spend your time talking to people who know they’re being lied to but don’t know how. Better not to spend your time arguing with faceless people over the internet at all.
My thought: if they don’t trust the international observers that oversaw the election, they should have sent their own. Science tells us to trust the best available evidence.
Which international observers has Russia cited? All I saw was some German energy CEO who “took holiday” to go see it. He was “impressed by the transparency” but also said, “I assess what I see, in the full knowledge that I am only being allowed to see what I should see.”
Was there any others?
This is an article from western media that came out yesterday, and while the headline is about an Indian observer I’d like to highlight a specific paragraph:
“In a widely circulated message on Telegram channels, a Russian official said: “Representatives from Great Britain, Germany, Syria, Togo, Spain, Colombia, South Africa, Ghana, Serbia, India, Iceland and Latvia worked at polling stations in Donetsk and Makeevka.””
According to Russia there seems to have been people from quite a few places, and not just global south countries but Britain, Germany, Spain, and Iceland.
They had a Biden moment
Indian prime minister Narendra Modi expressed his displeasure over the war in Ukraine directly with Vladimir Putin at their face-to-face meeting in Uzbekistan, saying it was not the era of war. It was also India’s first mention of Ukraine’s invasion as war. (emphasis added)
You can just look at the polling from before the invasion and see that those areas were always pro-Russia. Polling done under and by the Ukrainian gov’t
…Let us simplify all this.
Consider the character of the west and what they have ever said and what they will ever say.
Everything. Is. Rigged.
It’s more astounding that anyone anywhere feels need to claim anything about their enemies. In the eyes of the west; Russia will forever be incapable of doing anything legitimate. So does it even matter what the west says?
It matters in a way that there are a lot of people that still need to be convinced of my and my party’s point of view. Which include critical support for Russia. And if the media keeps telling lies for them to read there need to be ways to discuss these things. I am looking for these ways and I am curious to see the POV of people on this site.
Because it does matter what the west says when your party is in the west and goes against the current media and mainstream view of the event. And when you want to convince people of your cause you need to have a good and solid story, otherwise you will soon be found to be a nutjob unfortunately. No matter if you are right or not.
Alright.
State media is not very reliable for foreign affairs. State media is and always has been pure propaganda. I wouldn’t take it too seriously unless there is undeniable evidence to the fact.
Nooooo How could those backwards monkey like inhuman Asiatic hordes possibly not want to be ruled by our Neo-Nazis who want to genocide them, Russia must’ve forced them to vote Noooooo 😭 😭 😭
Danish news outlets are saying the same thing
Zo te zien is ‘Ze stemmen met een geweerloop op hun hoofd’ propaganda weer terug van weggeweest.
Ziehier kuifje in Sovjetland.
Deze proganda is ongeveer even waar als de vermeende intelligentie van de Congolezen in Kuifje in Afrika.Net als er nooit militaire massa-verkrachtingsoperaties zijn geweest,
dus geen Libische kolonels die viagra pillen uitdelen om zo veel mogelijk te verkrachten,
zijn er ook nog nooit verkiezingen geweest waarbij een geweer van te pas komt.Zo werkt de mens niet.
Daarnaast heeft iedereen tegenwoordig een telefoon, waar zijn de beelden van geweren gericht op het volk?Klopt. Het is ook gewoon onzin. Het is weer van het niveau ‘bronnen beweren dat…’ zonder verdere uitleg over de bronnen.
Het probleem is dat de NOS dit rapporteert en daar hebben sommige (linkse) mensen blijkbaar nog een hoge pet van op. Het is ook wel zo dat sommige mensen überhaupt nooit willen luisteren.
Tot de oliecrisis van 1973 was Rusland/Sovjet-Unie met succes een inhaalslag aan het maken.
Kuifje, moralistisch hoogtepunt van België
Als vier mensen inhuren om gedragen te worden het ergste wat België of de striptekenaar gedaan had, dan had ik het wel verdedigt.
Het Congolese leger moet uitgelachen worden.
De Congolese treinen moeten uitgelachen worden.
Congolese nieuwsgierigheid / onervarenheid moet uitgelachen worden.
“Jullie vaderland is België”
