Germany suspects the Nord Stream gas pipeline system was damaged by an act of sabotage, in what would amount to a major escalation in the energy standoff between Russia and Europe.
  • Muad'Dibber@lemmygrad.ml
    365·
    2 years ago

    The brain geniuses over at reddit think Russia went deep into NATO territory to bomb their own pipeline, that they could shut off from their own side at any moment.

    • KimJongGoku@lemmygrad.ml
      245·
      2 years ago

      I’ve seen an absolutely beautiful lib take about the sabotage of Nordstream:

      They admitted that it doesn’t really make any sense for Russia to do this, so Russia totally DID do it to seem more “unpredictable and crazy” and therefore make the threat of an escalation to nuclear warfare seem more credible. Perhaps they can use the heat generated by these kinds of mental gymnastics to keep warm during the winter.

  • HiddenLayer5
    241·
    2 years ago

    I wonder who has a vested interest in making sure the EU doesn’t negotiate with Russia. I also wonder who’s been selling the EU gas at viciously inflated prices. Hmm…

    • Muad'Dibber@lemmygrad.ml
      262·
      2 years ago

      Nonono you see, we have users below telling us that countries don’t act in their own interest anymore. US doesn’t sabotage russia-eu pipelines because that would be in their interest to do so. Russia does sabotage their own pipelines because its against their economic interests.

      It makes perfect sense as long as you understand the guiding principle: “Russia bad”.

    • pingveno
      311·
      2 years ago

      It’s the US Navy. If there’s international water, they’re probably there.

      • HiddenLayer5
        92·
        2 years ago

        And if the Russians were sabotaging it, you don’t think the US would have seen them? Or the presence of the US have would have deterred them? Presumably in your mind they were already patrolling the pipeline for security. The US has been surprisingly silent on this haven’t they?

    • pingveno
      823·
      2 years ago

      Interesting, but seeing as it’s Russia making the claim it could well just be disinformation.

      • HiddenLayer5
        253·
        2 years ago

        “Russia bad. America good. I’m a free thinker. You’re a brainwashed tankie.”

        • pingveno
          617·
          2 years ago

          I made no claims about America, but Russia is particularly bad when it comes to lies. Remember when all of this was starting and they were waving away a massive buildup of tanks as a training drill? Russia makes claims of genocide by Ukraine while denying well documented mass murder of Ukrainian civilians. It claims that US contractors are deploying chemical weapons in the Donbass region. Then there were the transparent lies around Flight MH17. The US lies from time to time, it is true. But Russia lies habitually in a firehose of misinformation to confuse between truth and fiction. It is like comparing Trump and his habitual lying with a more normal politicians occasional truth stretching. Not even the same league.

          • HiddenLayer5
            193·
            2 years ago

            The US lies from time to time

            If only I had your level of denial, then maybe I wouldn’t be so miserable living in the West.

            • graphito
              45·
              2 years ago

              You know what can definitely help you?

              ✨ Russian citizenship ✨

              • HiddenLayer5
                32·
                2 years ago

                You think it’s that easy to immigrate anywhere? Trust me, if I could leave, I would. I can’t.

                Also, loving your ability at nuance. Everyone who doesn’t hate Russia or defends them in any way worships Russia and wants nothing but to live there and lick the ground Putin walked on.

            • pingveno
              54·
              2 years ago

              The plane was almost certainly shot down by separatists who mistakened it for a Ukrainian air force bomber. They then prevented any neutral third party from investigating.

      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆OP
        225·
        2 years ago

        If only you showed the same level of skepticism when it comes to western propaganda.

        • pingveno
          414·
          2 years ago

          If only you showed the same level of skepticism when it comes to western propaganda.

          If only you showed the same level of skepticism when it comes to Russian propaganda.

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆OP
            133·
            2 years ago

            Oh I do, there is plenty of wild stuff coming out of Russia that’s just as laughable as the stuff put out by the west.

            • pingveno
              514·
              2 years ago

              Then maybe do me a solid and respond to some of the people here who are echoing Kremlin propaganda, eh?

              • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆OP
                133·
                2 years ago

                Please be specific what it is you claim to be Kremlin propaganda in this thread and why.

                • pingveno
                  512·
                  2 years ago

                  Claims of genocide by the Ukrainian government. There have been no such efforts from the government. The worst I have seen in concrete terms is trying to force Russian speakers to use Ukrainian, and that had been limited. It’s mostly just fear mongering.

      • Muad'Dibber@lemmygrad.ml
        162·
        2 years ago

        Russia = untrustworthy, we all know that. /s

        Seriously tho, what motivation would Russia have to bomb something that brings them profit? It makes as much sense as the US bombing its own gas pipelines.

        • pingveno
          513·
          2 years ago

          What profit motive would Russia have to invade Ukraine, knowing there would be massive economic backlash? They’re not motivated by simple profit calculations at the moment. And it’s not like that pipeline is bringing them profit now. For that matter, it may never bring them profit again with a Europe that will be reluctant to return to relying on an unreliable source of energy.

          • Muad'Dibber@lemmygrad.ml
            163·
            2 years ago

            Ukraine has been invading and bombing the donbass with impunity since 2014, over 8k civilians killed in that time. Defending their border areas, and the lives of russian-speaking peoples, is a core strategic interest. Keeping those areas stable does help their profit in the long term. Why was Ukraine attacking the donbass, if that’s wrecking their country now?

            And it’s not like that pipeline is bringing them profit now.

            That’s the US’s goal, not Russia’s! Russia very much wants to continue selling gas via the pipelines.

            on an unreliable source of energy.

            When the US sabotages infrastructure projects, they’re “unreliable”. This is like saying I burned down your farm, so you must have no interest in keeping it since its unreliable.

            • pingveno
              416·
              2 years ago

              Why was Ukraine attacking the donbass, if that’s wrecking their country now?

              Because there are separatists in the region who were obviously going to eventually “ask” to join Russia. Is Ukraine supposed to sit by idly while Russia takes more and more of its territory under the pretense of protecting Russian speakers? Are you aware of Hitler’s similar moves during WW2? This isn’t about economics, it’s about a country’s sovereignty.

              When the US sabotages infrastructure projects, they’re “unreliable”. This is like saying I burned down your farm, so you must have no interest in keeping it since its unreliable.

              That’s not what I mean when I say unreliable. I mean a source that becomes a security threat. It’s become clear that the Cold War and Russian imperialism never were truly over for some Russians, especially at the top.