EDIT: Please do not go out and try to harass or insult Enigma. This post was not made to create a witch hunt against them. This post was made to criticise his stance on Russia and nothing more. End of story.
Hello comrades. Recently a fellow comrade of ours named @EN16MA@lemmygrad.ml wrote out a little masterpost to the Communist forum here on Lemmygrad titled “Russia is Marching Towards Socialism”. In this post, Enigma makes a number of claims about the current state of the Russian Federation, but the most prominent one is what the title says: that Russia is moving towards socialism, and has effectively become a dictatorship of the proletariat under Putin’s rule.
Here is the original post: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/175705
I hate to come down on a fellow comrade like this, but to quite blunt, this post is a hunk of shit. It is absolutely riddled with the most ridiculous claims that grasp at perhaps the world’s longest straws to try and make the argument that Russia in its current form is any way “socialist”. It only serves to make the rest of us MLs look like complete buffoons with no knowledge of history or foreign affairs.
This post of mine aims to debunk Engima’s claims and hopefully put both them and the rest of this community on the right path with regards to Russia, so that we all have a better understanding of what exactly is up with this country and where we should stand on it. It is very clear that Engima has no real understanding of current Russian politics and that is what I aim to address in this response.
According to the words of Vladimir Putin himself, since 2020 Russia has been in an NEP. The process of moving towards a socialist state began in 2020 with the establishment of a new NEP. Russia is still capitalist, specifically state capitalist with a strong market sector similar to China but it could be argued that Russia is currently a Dictatorship of the Proletariat:
So basically what Enigma is referring to here is an event in April 2020 in which Putin announced a list of measures of social protection, support for small and medium-sized enterprises, and changes in fiscal policy. Putin announced the following measures for microenterprises, small- and medium-sized businesses: deferring tax payments (except Russia’s value-added tax) for the next six months, cutting the size of social security contributions in half, deferring social security contributions, deferring loan repayments for the next six months, a six-month moratorium on fines, debt collection, and creditors’ applications for bankruptcy of debtor enterprises.
In short, Putin’s aim was to forgive all Russian loans and business tax payments for the next six months.
I don’t think I need to explain why this policy bears no resemblance at all to the NEP, other than its focus on helping small private businesses. Putin’s policy here is not some wide-sweeping change to the Russian economy like the NEP was; it’s literally just a COVID-19 relief scheme.
The only reason Enigma tries to equate them is because Putin himself equated his policy to the NEP. This is a comically terrible point for two reasons:
- If Enigma actually did his research, he would’ve known Putin’s claim was bullshit to begin with, and
- As Engima admits himself, Russia is still a capitalist system. Capitalist leaders are literally SUPPOSED to say whatever sounds the best in order to get people to trust and follow them. Why, then, would Enigma automatically assume Putin is telling the truth when he equates his covid relief scheme to the fucking NEP? This whole point is just ridiculous and clearly demonstrates Enigma’s lack of knowledge on Russian and Soviet history.
Well, Enigma must realise his logic is already faltering because he proceeds to try and make the argument that Russia (sigh) has already become a DOTP. How does he argue this, you may ask?
A recent example of Russia being a DOTP was when Putin at the start of the special military operation in Ukraine scolded the bourgeoisie for not falling in line. Russia deals with their bourgeoisie similar to China, with an iron fist.
…What??
What Engima appears to be referring to here, I guess, is Putin scolding members of the Russian elite for not supporting the invasion of Ukraine. How the hell does this have ANYTHING to do with Russia being controlled by the proletariat??? If anything, this only PROVES that the Russian oligarchs are still a problem, if Putin is having to call them out on live television for going against him! Regardless of how you feel about the invasion of Ukraine, this “argument” of Enigma’s is really just a non-argument. I have no idea why he even brought this up to begin with, it means literally nothing. And that comparison with China is so weak. China executes its billionaires on a regular basis. Putin scolds them on national television. Come on. Russia is not a DOTP.
Well, next up Enigma tries to argue that Russia is socialist because of “state planning” and nationalisation:
3/4’s of the economy is owned by the state, while there is also strong and vibrant small and medium medium sized firms in a market sector which have been promoted by the state as alternatives to foriegn oligopolies.
You know, South Korea also executed five-year plans during its recovery from the Korean War. Does that make South Korea socialist now? For Christ’s sake, this is literally a liberal/conservative’s understanding of socialism. Nationalisation does not equal socialism. State planning does not equal socialism. This should not have to be explained to someone who claims to be a socialist, let alone a Marxist-Leninist.
The leader of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, Gennady Zyuganov has high praise for Putin and has even suggested that he should become leader of the party. This suggestion does not come from an empty vacuum, Putin has actually for the last several years not been apart of United Russia and has been antagonistic towards the party. He has instead supported Fair Russia (in the last election) who had talks of joining in a coalition with the Communist Party. Putin has also on multiple occasions praised Communism and Communist figures of the past.
This whole paragraph is rather incoherent and seems to bounce back and forth between “the communists love to putin” to “putin actually hates the communists” to “putin loves communist figures”.
First of all, Zyuganov is a terrible human being. He opposes abortion and LGBT rights, is extremely antisemitic, and supports Reaganist trickle-down economics and the Russian Orthodox Church. So saying he’s buddy-buddy with Putin isn’t a very good look.
Secondly, tagging Putin as a communist because he praises communist figures is just beyond laughable. Not only do Putin’s policies not resemble any Soviet policies as we have established, but he has also gone out of his way a number of times to disgrace figureheads like Lenin and Stalin. Just recently, in fact, the Russian government ordered the bulldozing of a monument of Lenin reading, “Peace and Love to All Peoples!” Putin just says whatever he can to get the people on his side; in reality he doesn’t have any loyalty to his country’s communist legacy. The fact Enigma just finds quotes of Putin praising communists and rolls with it, really shows how unwilling he is to think critically about what he is reading, which is the essence of being a communist.
Alright, so, after this point Enigma goes on a long tangent where he praises Russia for invading Ukraine, but I don’t think I need to get into it. I think I’ve said enough already about why Enigma’s little “masterpost” on Russia is one of the stupidest things I’ve seen from this community in quite a while. I don’t mean any personal disrespect to @EN16MA@lemmygrad.ml, but seriously dude, do your research next time. Posts like these just make the rest of us look like a bunch of uneducated nutcases and will just turn people off from the path of Marxism-Leninism, especially in times like these. Hopefully this post is what you need to start thinking more critically like an actual communist and Marxist.
Russia is not socialist, nor is it on the path to socialism. I hope I have this made point abundantly clear today.
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Thanks, and I have respect for Russian communists that have survived so much. I have friends in Russia.
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Trust me, the mental effects are hard.
Don’t forget about the “spirituality” craze
Yes, thank you for this. We need comrades like you who can speak the truth directly.
I guess that it is not easy for outsiders to notice this since Putin had oppose Western imperialism instead of imperial alliance with superpower to oppress the global south. Putin had also tried peace talk with Ukraine government for 8 years on the Ukraine attack towards Donbass citizens as punishment for the Ukraine rebelling states which provides justification for Putin’s military intervention. The pro-NATO fake news recently boosted that it successfully drive Russian force from Kyiv and this could be a secret message of “Putin had neutralized Kyiv military capability to attack Donbass citizen and so Putin will now leave Kyiv in peace”.
it is not very productive for the conversation to call other comrades with different points of view, libs and rightoids.
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of course i am with the dictatorship of the proletariat, more than you think. but what has it got to do with you calling here comrades libs and rightoids? is this how comrades talk to each other, you think? this is not a football stadium in here. It is a communist community and perhaps it is you that dont belong here.
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Ok, then i am sorry for calling you out, i misunderstood your point.
I agree that Russia isn’t socialist and that it’s debatable at best that it’s moving towards socialism. I think people here can take support for Russia too far. Like, supporting a country doesn’t mean supporting every aspect about it and I’m not saying that in order to “both sides” the issue.
This sports fan mentality is exactly why discussing politics on Reddit sucks so much and I expect more from Lemmy.
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Yeah
I’m glad someone is taking the time to call out such steaming bullshit. Putin himself is worth some $200bn, he’s obviously in for himself, not the working class.
Exactly. Putin is a selfish opportunist in every conceivable way.
I’m glad you enjoyed my response :D
Enigma is a Maupinite.
I think he should be banned.
Edit: He has often gone into communities as a wrecker to sabotage them.
Please consider disassociating from this person. I recommend banning immediately.
Again, he is a Maupinite, a “PatSoc” (social-patriot, as Lenin would say), and has often gone to bat for right-wing figures.
Hear, hear
I’m serious. He’s even caused trouble for the CPI (as in, the Communist Party of Ireland that he’s apart of). I would be really careful. He caused problems in one CPUSA community that I was apart of and tried to instigate Maupinism or some form of “Patriotic Socialism.”
I must say, in Tankie Bunker, he is well-known as he has defended and gone on long screeds defending PatSocs like the Infrared gang. I would really be careful because he often comes with a group with him.
We were once brigaded with these people (we also got brigaded by Maoists early on who worked with fascists). Do not underestimate these groups. I know it’s “just the Internet” but we have to be careful when it comes to some Internet spaces, especially since subreddits that are communist on, well, Reddit are tenuous at best and are liable to being taken out or banned or quarantined on a whim.
In Tankie Bunker for example and in the CPUSA as well we often take a hardline: either the person gives up on ideas antithetical to the party line shortly after joining (for example, SolidNet communist parties do this with anarchists or utopian socialists or other non-Marxist or non-Marxist-Leninists or they are shunned and eventually kicked out, full-stop. Do NOT underestimate these people because they try to take over Internet communities as well, same as the Maoists do).
Deviationists to our right, deviationists to our left.
Let’s not make the same mistakes Tankie Bunker and my own org did in underestimating this problem while our sights were elsewhere, whether it was getting the community set up on Tankie Bunker or trying to navigate the pandemic environment while strengthening ties with the CPC in China.
I’ll forward this to the mod team here.
It’s up to you, but I would take this, err, seriously. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen people defend… this person:
Hello Makan, I think we talked at least once or twice a couple years back. I own a discord server called Weeb Revolution and quite a few people have spilled over from Tankie Bunker through invites. Anyways I don’t know much about what position you hold in Tankie Bunker, but the stories i hear about Tankie Bunker are a little alarming. I realize there is only so much oversight a mod team can have presumably not getting payed at all, but several tankie bunker ‘refugees’ have asserted that they saw grooming occurring in Tankie Bunker. Also there are the horror stories of Cassia who moderates r/communism and was connected with Tankie Bunker? (honestly this has become such a internet leftist urban legend i don’t even know the origin of this one except i have seen those infamous chatlogs).
My point is I don’t appreciate this push to ban EN16MA on these allegations. You can disagree with his opinions and his politics all you want. However, from my perspective I will say EN16MA is a very diligent person constantly compiling resources that anyone can dive into and research. I’m not familiar with him in person or his role in the Communist Party of Ireland so i can’t say much there, but I think it would be a harmful precedent to ban people for being associates of Maupin or even Infrared (though Infrared fans i admit could be a bit more sketchy considering the aggressive strategies of that community, perhaps case by case basis there) I have seen some crazy Infrared fans but not so many stories as crazy as grooming, or full on anti-antisemitism like i saw the one hour i joined the Finbol Discord. All these leftist communities have had faults so I think we should be willing to admit their shortcomings
The grooming was done by Maoists and PatSocs and outside the server. This is just dumb slander. Cassia attacked us; not the other way around.
/r/communism connected to Tankie Bunker? Not in your life. She hated BayArea415, who I advised. She was also for the Maoist takeover of /r/communism.
Cassia is a groomer, a psychopath. Stay away from her. Do not engage. Ban on sight.
EN16MA hangs out with Maupinites in their server. He has even sabotaged the CPI (Community Party of Ireland) yet wears the CPI on his Twitter account. I don’t disagree with his opinions; his viewpoints, that of social-patriotism, is antithetical to Marxism-Leninism. He has brigaded our server. He has constantly gone to bat for PatSocs like Infrared and Maupin and Jackson Hinkle.
You’ve seen his resource page? And you approve of the drivel he posts there to support figures like Earl Browder and support what could be fed infiltration or fascist infiltration of a SolidNet communist party? He literally works for the other CPI organization by Maupin and Retweets his posts.
You realize that he hung out at the Finbol Discord server for a long time even after all that shit about Finbol grooming people came out? And what the hell were you doing there?
You should be willing to stamp out this rot and yet instead we have dumbasses like the ones that are on /r/communism’s mod team that actively attack others and manupulate others.
You realize that Maupin’s organization is incredibly sexist and that most women leave a year into the organization? You realize that Maupin doesn’t even look at Indigenous people as being somehow apart of the working-class movement to topple the American state? Yes, Native Americans living in the United States, under a rogue state, under “America,” are not apart of the movement.
The fuck? You talk to me about the shit that happened in Tankie Bunker with the constant fascist/Maoist threats to us previously and then the constant brigades led by the Maupinites by the likes of people like EN16MA? The hell? And don’t even talk about the allegations against Weeb Revolution? Yes. Some neutrality.
We are talking about a force of modern-day social-patriots that literally tried to infiltrate, through subterfuge, a SolidNet - a SolidNet party, mind you, recognized by the CPC internationally - and, then gives a conference at their own organization (with Haz even going so far as to see reactionaries as taking priority in terms of recruitment) in which they celebrate Earl Browder through his own aesthetics and talking-points.
What the hell are you doing? Covering for Haz/Infrared? Covering for Maupin? The fuck? People that pass literature and extol Duginist literature and support and sing the praises of anti-communists like Lyndon LaRouche?
EN16MA has a twitter? forgive my ignorance of their entire online presence. This is their website I have checked out https://liberation.neocities.org/site/socialism.html I havent clicked on every link, but there are a wide range of resources like basic introductions to Marxist-Leninist theory, a Full PDF of Killing Hope, an interview Jason Unruhe (questionable figure there) did with a member of the Black Panthers, Maupin tweets. I could see why you don’t like this resource, but I haven’t seen the connections to Browderism though maybe a link alluded me there are many.
On why I joined the Finbol server. It was actually EN16MA who sent me the invite link to it, I had to search through a chatlog to remember that and he said there was going to be a dengist uprising. He was having an argument with a person name Caelliox who thinks China is revisionist. I was basically repulsed by what I saw in that server and the argument about China was not conductive at all. EN16MA was arguing in favor of China, and im not sure how long they were in the Finbol server, but it certainly is as problematic as it is said to be from my exposure to it
Personally I think the CPUSA is failing its duties at the leadership level, and I do agree with Haz’s assessment the CPUSA is currently prostitutes to the Democratic Party. So yes it should be taken over, rightist are already in leading it
You realize that if they’re lured into social-patriotism, which Lenin railed against and refuted time and time again, that that will cloud the trajectory of their development into Marxism and Marxism-Leninism and will simply reproduce more PatSocs?
And that promoting figures like Jason Unruhe and Maupin, even uncritically or off-handedly, is how they remain financially afloat? You do realize that Maupin has publicly extolled Earl Browder and Browderism?
You realize that he told us that he was there since 2014? And you’re telling me that he goes around trying to take Discord servers over?
You do realize that Haz/Infrared are rightists? So you are a supporter of PatSocs so long as you feel that groups you don’t like are taken out? The everlasting fuck? You want CPUSA to turn to racism and sexism, of which Haz and Infrared are ardent followers of Maupin?
I’m sorry, but these idiots want to American patriotism and you want the CPUSA to turn rightward simply to “own the libs” or some shit? What? lmao
You realize that if they’re lured into social-patriotism, which Lenin railed against and refuted time and time again, that that will cloud the trajectory of their development into Marxism and Marxism-Leninism and will simply reproduce more PatSocs?I don’t think we’re going to reach common ground on the patriot question. Lenin railed against chauvinist, yes, but not socialist patriots. This whole divide has been nothing but asinine from the start. If the masses are going to build socialism in their own country shouldn’t it just be a basic understanding these people will be patriots? I think this is generally understood except for the Left in America apparently. Attack the character of Maupin, Haz, and Infrared all you want I think that point still stands.
You realize that he told us that he was there since 2014? And you’re telling me that he goes around trying to take Discord servers over?no i did not realize that, and i wouldn’t call having a debate in one channel a takeover since it fell pretty flatYou do realize that Haz/Infrared are rightists? So you are a supporter of PatSocs so long as you feel that groups you don’t like are taken out? The everlasting fuck? You want CPUSA to turn to racism and sexism, of which Haz and Infrared are ardent followers of Maupin?I listened to Haz’s plan for the infiltration of the CPUSA. It basically boiled down to him advocating for people to join the CPUSA then climb their way up as respected members then use the parties democratic system to secure their own seats on the national committee. I don’t know the nitty gritty details of how that plan has been going, im not involved or a member of the CPUSA myself. However, it does seem telling how much the CPUSA leaders freaking out over this, are they really that scared of being voted out? The claim that the CPUSA will be turned sexist and racist is their own slander against the initial surge of infrared members in the CPUSA
I don’t know much about Tankie Bunker since I’m not a member of it, but from what I know the server has like 1,900 members or some crazy shit like that, a helluva lot of people are on that server. And I think it’s the same people who moderate it as r/InformedTankie, so it’s not a large group of mods. Honestly you’re bound to have incidents like that on a server so big with so few people in control of it.
Actually, yeah, and I stepped down a while ago of my own volition; I do feel that there should be more moderators, tbh, but that’s a different topic. I believe that it’s only gone up from 1,900 since the recent shenanigans with /r/GenZedong.
Thanks a lot for this. I thought of responding to him myself but you did it way better than I ever could
I’m glad you appreciated my post comrade! But don’t get yourself down, I’m sure you would’ve made a good response too. I think I let my anger show a little too much while writing this but hopefully all my points were still made clear
I think your post’s clear. I still find the idea idea that Putin of all people will reunify the Soviet Union because necessity™ to be hilarious as hell
Sameeee :3
He has a whole “resource” of stuff that he draws on, his on website. He’s very influential in the Infrared and Maupin and other communities like this.
Thanks for calling BS out. We can’t let this space turn into an echo chamber where every post is some type of circlejerk.
it almost sounds like you are afraid of them, it is not a good thing to ban other opinions. we are all communists here and if that is so BS to be heard, comrades will discard it. but pre-banning it is something else.
Capitalist leaders are literally SUPPOSED to say whatever sounds the best in order to get people to trust and follow them.
Isn’t that just the general behavior of those in power?
Yes, but if anything that just adds to my point. Putin is lying about his policy being like the NEP
That will depends on whether they can deceive the people and whether they can evade the consequence of their cheating. Conservative elites like Donald Trump have negative relation to the more socially liberal metropolitan elites and will appeal to conservative white rural populations in their choice of words and phrases. As Capitalism in practice is government intervention for the rich, they will try to spread misinformation via the news and school textbook to keep the poor misinformed and manipulatable.
I am not able to make sense of how that applies to what I said
I am listing several separate points. For Trump, he gains support from the rural population because the rural population either mistrust the Neo Liberal news or interpret the news differently to create unintended positive opinion of Trump. The fake news stop Trump from depending on metropolitan population or immigrants.
Those with the power and incentive to deceive will do so.
my point was that “capitalist” was a redundant word in that context
the particulars of how are certainly important but I don’t see them as germane here
As in your own words, “I hate to come down on a fellow comrade like this, but to quite blunt, this post is a hunk of shit.” I hate to do this but this applies to you.
First of all, this post made by AppleDash is full of contradictory statements, at first he correctly says that Enigma believes that Russia is moving towards socialism, that it’s not socialist, nor is building socialism, yet is coming closer to it by becoming more and more sovereign, building a centralized planned economy, achieving a dictatorship of the proletariat, etc., then accuses Enigma of calling Russia socialist, then switches back to saying that Enigma claimed that Russia is coming closer towards socialism but is not socialist and isn’t building it and then again accused him of claiming that Russia is socialist. This way we can see how our Comrade AppleDash is a living embodiment of contradictions and suffers from the lack of dialectical thinking, instead engaging in hardcore metaphysics and switching back and fourth in his contradictory statements
Secondly, the NEP reform that Enigma is talking about is NOT Putins reforms to protect small businesses and create more social proetction, instead, what Enigma is talking about is Putins United Plan (Единый План Путина), which is from August 2020 and not April 2020, whose intend it is to transform Russia into a centralized planned economy and return the Gosplan under a state capitalist economy (for now), which is what the NEP was
https://barcaffe.ru/v-rossii-proizoshla-tihaja-socialisticheskaja-revoljucija-putina/
Further, Putin has praised central planning before and said that without it WWII couldnt have been won in public, showing his support for central planning in both, his words and actions
"Then the economy. After all, why have they already switched to the NEP? Because even the prodrazverstka did not work, could not. It was impossible to provide large cities with food. Therefore, they switched to market economy, to the NEP, then quickly folded it.
You know, what I’m saying now is my personal conclusions, my personal analysis. Planned economy has certain advantages, it makes it possible to concentrate national resources on the implementation of the most important tasks. This was how health issues were resolved, which was the unconditional merit of the Communist Party of that time. This was how the issues of education were resolved – an absolute merit of the Communist Party of that time. This was how the issues of industrialization in its defense part were resolved. I think that if it were not for the concentration of national resources, the Soviet Union would not have been able to prepare for war with Nazi Germany. And there would be a great probability of defeat with catastrophic consequences for our statehood, for the Russian people and other peoples of the Soviet Union. Therefore, these are all absolute advantages. But in the end, insensitivity to changes, insensitivity to technological revolutions, to new technological ways led to the collapse of the economy." -Putin http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/51206
Later on our confused comrade AppleDash goes on to say that South Korea also had central planning, thus making central planning a phenomenon not solely used by socialist and socialist-orientated states only. True, capitalist countries can also have central planning, however, capitalist countries cant have centralized planned economies for long periods of time as Marx and Engels said in Capital Volume III, and is rather incompatible with capitalist economic mechanisms
From the Third volume of Capital, “All thought of a common, all-embracing and far-sighted control of the production of raw materials gives way once more to the faith that demand and supply will mutually regulate one another. And it must be admitted that such control is on the whole irreconcilable with the laws of capitalist production, and remains for ever a pious wish, or is limited to exceptional co-operation in times of great stress and confusion.”
Central planning is only used by capitalist countries for short periods of time, such as total massive crises and war, this, however, does not apply to Russia right now, especially not in August 2020. Russia is not facing a major crisis of the likes of the Great Depression unlike the Weimar Republic/the 3rd Reich and is not having a direct war on its territory with someone, especially not in 2020 or 2021. Thus, Russia is building a centralized planned economy not to avoid devastation, but to come closer to socialism
Further, I like to mention that all large enterprises are nationalized in Russia. People often forget that 99.2% of enterprises in Russia are small enterprises, which Putin wants to keep private, which is totally fine, even under socialism
Thirdly, Comrade AppleDash mistakens Enigma’s claims of Russia being a dictatorship of the proletariat being solely based on the bourgeoisie opposing the Russian special military operation in Ukraine. Though, that’s one reason, ALL Russian bourgeois billionaires (with the exception of three, that being Yuri Kovalchuk, Gennady Tymchenko and Sergey Chemezov) all openly oppose Putin now for starting the special military operation. The bourgeoisie in Russia DO NOT want this special military operation, but the workers and the peasants, the 99%, the people want it. So, by starting this military operation, Russia is going AGAINST the interests of the bourgeosie and is acting according to the workers of Russia. I wouldn’t use this so much as a reason as Enigma does regardless.
What bigger proof there is of the bourgeosie is Putin openly claiming that Russia is a “Soviet-style workers state”
“We have had it for a long time, they always said that the working class is the leading political force in our country. It was a Soviet stamp, but in fact it is,” TASS quoted Putin as saying at a meeting with workers and builders of the new Tsemix dry building mixes plant in Bashkiria."
“Russian President Vladimir Putin said that the working class is a political force in Russia.” https://russian.rt.com/russia/news/893534-rabochie-putin-rossiya
Further, Putin said that the oligarchs should have no influence on decision-making https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/815691480353996881/957009287908036649/Screenshot_20210308-000617-1.png
And Putin and Peskov are claiming that there is no oligarchy in Russia anymore, and that they have no political influence anymore
“In the spring of 2020, President Vladimir Putin explained the difference between oligarchs from the 1990s and modern ones. According to him, in the past decades, oligarchs could influence decisions made by the state in matters of domestic policy, and today’s company executives do not enjoy such privileges. “They don’t even get involved [in politics],” he pointed out.” https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.lenta.ru/news/2020/06/10/oligarhi/amp/ https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4013473
this is what Putin says, but is this really the case in practice?
The Russian bourgeosie first of all has no state positions, just look at the wikipedia pages of Abramovich, Sechin, Potanin, Rotenberg or whatever, or just read this
https://books.google.ru/books?id=Q_DiCgAAQBAJ&pg=PT90&lpg=PT90&dq=путин+в+россии+нет+буржуазии&source=bl&ots=jmifWptqcO&sig=ACfU3U01NDjNncoAW37fT8PRm0VlMj_SQg&hl=ru&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi60cHrt_juAhVUBGMBHVTsDbs4ChDoATAGegQICBAC#v=onepage&q=путин в россии нет буржуазии&f=false “As a political fact , the bourgeoisie is already poorly recognized — there are no deputies in the Chamber … no cannon shootings at the Loire. Russia has a different case: there is an anonymous ideology and …”
Further, Russia has no lobbyism since 2014, especially since mid 2018.
“Alas, we have practically no such precedents in recent years (of lobbyism) — we live boring, gentlemen.” https://tsargrad.tv/articles/lobbizm-v-gosdume-chi-interesy-predstavljajut-deputaty_230887
Also, Putin once called the bourgeoisie cockroaches.
We are slowly coming to the end
“First of all, Zyuganov is a terrible human being. He opposes abortion and LGBT rights, is extremely antisemitic, and supports Reaganist trickle-down economics and the Russian Orthodox Church. So saying he’s buddy-buddy with Putin isn’t a very good look.”
Even if that’s true, that doesn’t matter, Zyuganov is still a Marxist and we should put economics above social views. And Paul Cockshott opposes trans rights, is supporting Paul also “giving yourself a bad look”?
Next dear Comrade AppleDash is claiming that Putin has multiple times disgraced Lenin. The reason why Putin has said on numerous occasions things like that “Lenin put a ticking time bomb” under the USSR is because he opposes Lenins position on the National Question (and actually called Stalin right on it). https://youtu.be/YF1PMPvp3G8
He also opposes how Lenin destroyed churches and killed priests for no reason. And denounces Marxist social views, in particular the Marxist view on the family (which the USSR upheld).
Really, Putins criticizes Lenin not on economics or Marxism, but on social views, such as the national question, the family and the destruction and killings of priests and churches.
Can u also give an example of Putin disgracing Stalin? Haven’t heard of that
On a very last point, I find it hilarious how you completely ignored the last part of Enigma’s post. The reason why Russia can’t go full-on socialist and whatever is because it’s not a fully sovereign country. Enigma called the military operation Russia’s declaration of independence, it isn’t. Yes, Russia is not dependent on the US and EU at all since spring 2021, but still dependent indirectly on them by being dependent on PRC, a semi-neo-colony of them
Well, thank you for clearing up a lot of these misconceptions of mine, I appreciate it.
Honestly though, a lot of the stuff I was saying was just pure reaction to Enigma’s writing, and tbh the way Enigma worded a lot things (especially his talk of Putin’s NEP) was incredibly vague and thus I had no idea what he was actually referring to. If his post had been written better, my response would have almost certainly been written better as well, even with some of the things I got wrong regardless.
But I do appreciate a lot of these clarifications comrade. I still don’t think Russia is socialist but perhaps we just fundamentally disagree on certain principles of what Putin is doing. In any case, it’s good that you took the time to correct the points that I did make wrong, so thank you for that :)
It is worth considering if Russia is making steps toward socialism especially under the pressure of international sanctions. EN16MA even in his post said Russia is state capitalist, so suggesting he is just praising Russia’s system as it stands starting a witch hunt to ban him is absurd. I don’t think it should be an offense to ponder if Russia might be in the process of adopting a new economic model and link sources trying to figure it out. Russia is most certainly at least realigning with projects like the NordStream 2 pipeline abruptly being ended.
I follow Donald Courter’s a journalist working at Russia Today so perhaps i’m just a Russian bot, witch hunt me next I guess. He has taken the line he is not a Putinist, but as a Russian himself who has done reporting in the Donbass region and seen the victims bombed by Ukraine its common sense to support Russia’s military operation in Ukraine. NATO’s aggression have gone on far too long. You said in this post you don’t need to get into this. Yes you do. Genzedong and a lot of us came over here specifically because people were censored for ‘misinformation’ on Russia. Honestly you’re trying to censor any of us trying to side with Russia’s anti-imperialism
I never tried to start a witch hunt against Enigma. I just made a response post because I felt the need to. I don’t wish for anyone to go and insult or harass him. If there’s any pre-existing agenda against him, I am not a part of it. I just saw his post and thought it was bad.
And no, I did not “get into it” with the situation in Ukraine. I am not here to try and censor anyone. I simply responded to a point someone made that I thoroughly disagreed with. That is not censorship. Again, none of this is about how you feel about Ukraine, this post was about countering the idea that Russia itself is socialist. I tried my best to leave out my opinion on Ukraine because it wasn’t relevant. And I said nothing about whether Russia was anti-imperialist either, only that it wasn’t socialist.
Ok, I do respect your thoughts. Just reading all these replies asking to ban EN16MA made me a bit mad. EN16MA never argued that Russia is socialist either. He may be a bit too optimistic about Russia making advances toward socialism, and your reply does raise some serious doubts on that.
You’re right to feel upset about that, and honestly I had no clue of who this guy was or the reputation he had before making this post, and frankly I don’t care to know. I would never want to be responsible for a comrade having their reputation destroyed because some people took my little call-out post too seriously.
It should definitely be taken very seriously, since it’s a very important message. It shouldn’t be seen as an attack against a comrade or some weird attempt at censorship though lol
I actually find comrade’s viewpoint extremelly interesting, to say the least. First, he didnt claim that Russia is socialist, he said that Russia is moving towards socialism. Second, i believe we should think a little bit more on what the “dictatorship of the proletariat” is, or could be.
Firstly, DoP requires the existence of a proletariat. This means that a ruling class still exists, otherwise the proletariat wouldnt be called “proletariat” but something else (productive forces maybe?) , in a process of transformation. It also requires a dictatorship and a dictator, who will actually supress and repress somebody, but IN FAVOR of the proletariat. This somebody has to be the totality of the capitalist ruling class? Couldn’t it be a part of it, under certain historical circumstances? (late stage capitalism that we are now eg?) That somebody couldnt be also various more “progressive” minorities that want more freedom? Anarchists and the deeply individualistic ideology they bear is only a small example, and there is experience of that. Putin himself can surely be considered a dictator (at least in terms of western democracy), being in power so many years, yet his peoples seem to love him. Of course a lot probably hate him as well, but we need to see who they are, and that NOT through the western liberal point of view, but through a close, carefull and openminded observation of the Russian society. The fact that he doesnt present himself as a socialist, means nothing, because what matters is what he does for the people of his country, i would say. It is misleading to try to strictly apply terms that were coined in a specific historical context, on a different historical context, because we might miss the substance of the actual happening.
I am not arguing that Russia is going towards socialism, but i believe this particular matter is extremely important, and we should rather open the conversation, instead of close it. Comrade offered a thought out of the box and we should more seriously consider on it.
Um , you don’t understand what DoTP is. Dictatorship of The Proletariat doesn’t imply that it’s ruled by a dictator.
That concerns the definition of dictatorship. The Liberals had redefine dictatorship in modern America to associate it with absolute power and make a fake history on school textbook with the “what-if 20th century Communist follow the American Liberal redefinition of dictatorship”. “Dictator” in Russia can mean a leader who is under the rule of law, check of power from independent government department, and accountability to the working class.
sigh the first thing we gotta do is start moving from 80% memes and 20% relative stuff to 60% theory and analysis, with posting being only a fun side thing
serious argument. comrade dont underestimate the wisdom of memes, sometimes they can be big and complicated truths made simple. Theories on the other hand, most of the time are distorted by idealism that underruns our whole “reality”. All these discussions deserve to be made simple so that everybody can take part in them. Communistic theories did not arise from theoretical think tanks. Rather they were forged hand in hand with peoples’ struggles. Lenin himself spoke quite simply, big truths that concerned everybody and everybody interested, could understand. Perhaps the theories got complicated by beeing “forced” to answer to idealistic distortions, but that only concerns the theorists. For common people the material reality is more important.
i don’t think that anyone rooting for russia right now is unaware of russia being an autocratic and fascist system with social nationalism ( - because patriotism is farmed, yet not exclusive of other minorities). There are still many remnants of socialist federalism in the russian system as it was bred into the people and since foreign consultancies weren’t allowed to penetrate the system as deeply, i see more hope for the russian social system than for the European ones which are currently in a state of self-cannibalisation to feed foreign corporate synergies (KPMG/McKinsey siphoning wealth into their american strategist pools)
Removed by mod
I’m sure he’s a good guy, but this post of his was still bad.
If you need to rely on falsehoods and false flags (like that one country 🤫😳), it makes us look as illiterate as them.
