As “funny” as this might be, if you don’t fucking vote Biden you’re likely voting for a huge world wide change off a cliff. If Trump wins, then your precious Gaza will be wiped out or whatever similar words he used. And that is just the start. His claims, he wants to be a dictator, the 2025 document basically wishes the US to become Gilead, and lots more fun stuff.
Seriously, maybe this might be slightly panicky, but these are things that are in all seriousness claimed by the Republican party and Trump. That is what you will be voting for if you don’t vote Biden , so how about you shut the . up for now about this, at least until after the elections?
On a side note, I can guarantee you that these groups end up receiving funding from Russia and whatnot. Not that they do that willingly or knowingly, but with Russia continuously meddling in US politics, you can rest assured that Putin won’t sit by while this is happening, he needs his useful idiot in US power.
You know who could very quickly win those voters back and make sure he wins in a landslide? Joe Biden. And you know what is all that he has to do for it? Stop sending weapons and money to Israel. This is already what the US laws mandate by the way. So all he has to do is uphold US laws he is currently breaking
Bonus points for recognizing Palestine internationally and getting Israeli war criminals in front of the ICC.
Why are you blaming the victims of Bidens politics instead of Biden, who has all the power to change these things right now?
Bonus points for recognizing Palestine internationally and getting Israeli war criminals in front of the ICC.
That is laughable. A US president to get war criminals before a court that the US does not recognize.
You know who could lose the elections if he pushes against the Israeli government causing disenfranchised Jewish voters?
Yeah. It’s not that easy.
if you don’t fucking vote Biden
your precious Gaza
so how about you shut the . up for now about this, at least until after the elections?
I can guarantee you that these groups end up receiving funding from Russia and whatnot
You can fuck ALL the way off with that bullshit. Libs like this are going to guarantee low turnout if they keep callously screaming shit like this to people who feel strongly about not being party to butchering children.
Instead of threatening and blaming voters you should be threatening and blaming the administration for alienating and disenfranchising millions of voters who would otherwise vote for him.
Yeah, and all of it is pretty on point, like it or not.
Go vote trump, or that brain worm guy, or don’t vote at all. Trump will then win and when he’s been in for a year, let’s talk again and see how well your argument held up.
I’d love to do anything else than what I’m doing now but stakes are rather high, not only for Palestinians, not only for Americans.
people who feel strongly about not being party to butchering children
You think Trump taking the white house is going to change that? The only difference enabling republicans is going to make is how much things are going to get worse.
Conservative voters aren’t bound by the same morals. They don’t abstain because their leaders are causing suffering.
No, which is why it’s incredible to me that Biden would risk it by his hardline endorsement of Israeli war crimes in gaza.
Biden is fallible, end of story. The guy has a shit track record, signing onto all sorts of shit that has made this country worse. We could talk till we are blue in the face about how shitty the two party system is but you assholes (idealists) seem to only show up around election time then disappear after everyone has to eat the shit sandwich we end up with.
but you assholes (idealists) seem to only show up around election time then disappear after everyone has to eat the shit sandwich we end up with.
We’ve always been here, and we’ve always been the ones eating the shit sandwich. We just suddenly become relevant around election time when the libs are looking for someone to scapegoat for their failing electoral strategy.
Where were you in 2021 when I was shit talking Biden all over the internet and getting shut down at every turn? Where were you 2022 with the same result? 2023 I said fuck it and went to lemmy.
2024 all the sudden, “you know that Biden guy kinda sucks.”
We could have primaried him you assholes.
Been here the whole time.
Yeah we have been here the whole time, y’all just been ignoring us especially when the truths we were speaking were inconvenient for your strategies of shaping your world view purely off an averaging function of other people’s views around you rather than a serious, adult intellectual understanding of human rights, the military industrial complex, late stage capitalism and colonialism.
See here’s the thing, most of us “radical leftists” care so deeply about doing the right thing that we have kept supporting y’all because you are usually less violent in policy making than Republicans. In return, you insult us for not showing up for elections we show up for, you laugh at us for being weird and eccentric when you are drunk with your Republican friends even though we are by far the highest energy and most impactful grass roots organizers in your coalition, you call us betrayers of the cause when we make your shitty candidates deal with aspects of their policies that are extremely problematic, you talk about us to the general public like we are below the moral level of conservatives who our political ideologies are specifically founded on a basis that the hate within conservatism of all kinds is the root of violence and suffering.
It’s over, the fact that Biden won’t even budge about the genocide of Palestinians when the raw US poll numbers send a clear signal of support for Palestinians, and no especial attachment to Israel is very very very close to making the progressive coalition with the Democratic Party an extinct species. Y’all will yell at us on the TV about how this was our fault when your political strategies catastrophically fail, as you have always done, but the difference this time is we shut the TVs off a long time ago and are out organizing your shitty belief system out of power so it can’t hurt more people.
So it will be that it leftists will be the ones organizing the evacuation of the ship and getting people into life boats while y’all will have gone to get the captain to come down and make us stop violating the orderly rules of command on the ship, and then when you finally comprehend the sea about to swallow you up you will scream it was our fault the ship sunk (that y’all never let us captain for even a second even though you let your rightwing friends drive the ship all the time even when you were technically supposed to be on the helm).
Only an idiot would abstain or vote for Trump all because of this issue. Biden is a shit president, but he’s worlds better than Trump has been, or could ever be.
This said, I agree that OP can fuck off with some of that language. The protests need to call Biden out. Bonus points for calling both candidates out, though. They’ve both chosen the wrong side of this.
Voters choose candidates for idiotic reasons all the time, it’s poor campaign strategy to assume otherwise.
If you don’t do what I want to improve something I care about, I will bring about a worse outcome for the thing I care about.
Logic.
“I” won’t be bringing any such worse outcome, Biden will be bringing it about himself by losing.
you should be threatening and blaming the administration for alienating and disenfranchising millions of voters who would otherwise vote for him.
I’m talking about these people who would otherwise vote for him. The ones who will, by not voting for Biden, increase the changes of a worse outcome for something they claim to care about.
But hey, their conscience will be clear not having voted for Biden, right?
These people are either:
- Full of shit, larping as leftists
- Complete fucking idiots
And Biden’s will be clear for being able to blame them for his loss, I assume?
Blaming someone for an election loss has nothing to do with morals or conscience so I don’t follow.
Conscience has something to do with guilt and blame, doesn’t it? It at least deals with the attribution of harm, and my point is that attributing the ‘increase in chances of harm’ to protestors a bit misplaced, since it’s Biden who has the agency to act against Israel, not the protestors.
The protestors are simply modeling the behavior they want to see from Biden: withhold support (or threaten to do so) from Israel until some concession is made. Either Israel will relent or we’ll reduce their ability to continue their assault on Gaza.
Criticism of Biden is not endorsement of trump. The people protesting are likely progressives who hate trump.
Criticize him all you want, but please wait until the election is over? Pretty please? Last thing we need is people lashing out and not voting at all, that’s how you get another 4 years of trump
Oh I will still vote Biden despite being seriously pissed at him.
Thank you.
When he’s in, criticize all you want but right now bigger issues and such
I have sent him a few letters already, and will not plan to stop. I have also told Obama the ways I was disappointed in him.
Yeah I don’t think that matter much, it’s not like he will be reading these letters himself. But you do you, for sure.
Damn and here I was letting genocide distract me from the election cycle. Boy is my face red.
I agree that everyone should vote Biden in November, but no… this can’t wait until then. Biden needs to address this, and he’s absolutely earning the nickname we see here by failing to do so.
He didn’t start this mess, and we probably can’t abandon Israel as an ally for a myriad of tactical and political reasons… But we can and should address the weapons being sent over regularly.
I agree it can’t wait, but it will have to. You forget that Biden amhas more things to take into account than just our opinions on it, right as we may be. If he kicks the Israeli government he might disenfranchise the Jewish community who then may decide not to vote for him, then Trump it is and bye bye Palestinians. It must suck to be in his place.
Anyway, I would not immediately assume that Biden is loving this genocide, he likely has many things to consider
your precious Gaza
Disgusting
The United States is funding and arming a genocide against the Gazans. And you diminish this abomination.
We Americans deserve what we get
Seriously, these are the people I’m supposed to have solidarity with? They treat dogs better than they treat Palestinians. Fuck all of that.
Cool, now do Biden’s hard-line position!! Only one of these guys is currently in power with his foot on the genocide gas pedal and nobody here seems to want to do anything to stop it! Absolute horse shit if you ask me
Do you prefer genocide or more genocide and the end of democracy? That’s where we are at right now.
nobody here seems to want to do anything to stop it!
Like what, vote for Trump? There’s at least a small hope that biden gets fed up with Israel’s shit, trump fully supports it.
Do you prefer genocide or more genocide and the end of democracy? That’s where we are at right now
Explain how it is that this is actually where we are at.
And, if this is actually where we are at, then why should any of us want to maintain such a system? Shouldn’t a system that is reliant on genocide be dismantled? Isn’t that the entire point of the Nuremberg Trials?
Do you prefer genocide or more genocide and the end of democracy? That’s where we are at right now.
Wow, sounds like a shitty failure of a system that I would be an absolute rube to support in any way.
Like what, vote for Trump?
The answer surely isn’t “vote for joe no matter what he does, no line is too far”
Question, who should someone who wants to end the genocide, vote for? What is your suggestion? How and why would that vote change the situation for the better? How likelihood is the desired outcome?
The answer is “vote for Joe despite him not doing more to aid Gaza, because the only alternative is far, far worse”.
Did you miss the entire point there?
Seriously, THAT is the part you picked up? Read, you fool…
We Americans deserve what we get
Disgusting
Russia is funding and arming a fascist movement against the Americans. And you diminish this abimination. /s
Man, it’s so easy to make someone sound bad when you purposefully misrepresent what they said. You didn’t actually engage with them. You only tried to make them sound evil, even though they’re advocating for protecting Palestinians as much as we possibly can. Please stop this garbage.
Please read the comment and explain how the person was “advocating for protecting Palestinians as much as we possibly can.”
To me it sounds like they don’t care about them at all, and see them as nothing more than an inconvenience in getting Biden reelected. Which is the mainstream Dem position
Comment is reposted below for your convenience:
"As “funny” as this might be, if you don’t fucking vote Biden you’re likely voting for a huge world wide change off a cliff. If Trump wins, then your precious Gaza will be wiped out or whatever similar words he used. And that is just the start. His claims, he wants to be a dictator, the 2025 document basically wishes the US to become Gilead, and lots more fun stuff.
Seriously, maybe this might be slightly panicky, but these are things that are in all seriousness claimed by the Republican party and Trump. That is what you will be voting for if you don’t vote Biden , so how about you shut the . up for now about this, at least until after the elections?
On a side note, I can guarantee you that these groups end up receiving funding from Russia and whatnot. Not that they do that willingly or knowingly, but with Russia continuously meddling in US politics, you can rest assured that Putin won’t sit by while this is happening, he needs his useful idiot in US power."
Blue Maga : even more deranged that the original with a twist.
When the world catches fire we will douse it with gasoline hoping it puts it out
Young people think this election is theirs to lose.
Say hello to your ronald regan moment. Say hello to your nixon moment. Say hello to your george bush moment. Say hello to your trump moment.
That’s what will haunt you until you die in a shittier world than what you started in.
And when you wonder why progress is never possible you can think back to it.
Progress isn’t possible in the US because Dems kept getting away with not being as bad as Reps instead of actually having to be better. As the result the Dems are getting worse and worse and worse and the Reps are getting even more insane. Biden is still running internment camps at the borders. Biden is still building Trumps wall. Biden is still running Guantanamo.
All you get by voting the “lesser” of two evils is double the evil next time.
But when the Dems actually risk losing over their shit, they will be inclined to change it. And if they don’t change it, that means that they rather want to Trump to win the election than they want to end a fucking genocide. You are gaslighting yourself instead of holding the responsible people accountable.
Progress isn’t possible because people who want progress refuse to unite under a concerted effort to make it happen. Biden was able to enact a lot of progressive policies. Hes not perfect, no one is, but you can see the progressive wing of the party have a seat at the table in the Biden government.
Despite all that there are some progressives who want to sabotage everything they worked for.
And who the fuck cares what the neolibs want. They are another obstacle that need to be done away with.
Progress isn’t possible because people who want progress refuse to unite under a concerted effort to make it happen.
I agree with most of what you say about Biden (he’s been more progressive than his Democratic predecessors, though that’s a pretty low bar), but this statement just isn’t true. Progressives showed up in 2020 to elect Biden, even though the DNC screwed over Bernie in the primaries. Despite what people believe, the youth vote was nearly as high for Hillary as it was for Obama, and more moderates went to Trump than Clinton. Progressives of course showed up Obama, since he ran a progressive campaign, but he governed in the center (his foreign and security policy was just right-wing).
The problem isn’t that the people who want progress don’t unite under a single banner. The progressives are always forced to unite under the Democrats’ centrist banner, and then those same centrist block the progress. Take Biden’s infrastructure plan; Manchin and Sinema made sure that all of the most progressive elements were stripped out of that plan. Progressives (like members of the squad) refused to vote for it without those provisions, but they were browbeaten by the centrist Dems who promised that those provisions would be passed soon in separate legislation. The progressives relented and that separate legislation was quickly abandoned.
The progressives always unite with the centrists, they rarely get anything to show for it, and they are constantly blamed for the centrists’ loses. If this is the election where the progressives finally stop showing up for the centrists (and don’t get me wrong, Trump is openly planning a fascist coup, so I pray to God it isn’t), the blame should be on the centrists for 3 nearly decades of broken promises to progressives, not progressives who, “refuse to unite.”
My perspective is, and i might just be reiterating what you have said, they unite under democrats then expect them to be progressives. It’s just not going to happen. Yes the democrats will appease them and that is awesome progress but it won’t be enough, for sure. There needs to be a concerted effort to make a change that progressives can build on. To me that is ranked choice voting or just plain getting rid of FPTP how ever you do it. The answer isn’t to abandon the progress we’ve made, though, it’s to expand on it.
Then I guess I don’t understand what your point is. Young people need to go out and vote for the Democrats instead in order to make any progress, but they can’t expect to Democrats to actually be progressive, but the Democrats will appease them (even though it really doesn’t seem that way)…I’m really not following. Is your point that progressives need to unite behind the Democrats and keep pushing them if they’re ever going to make progress? Because my point is that progressives have been uniting behind the Democrats in every major election and the Democrats actively block real progress.
Because you’re working from a fabrication
Democrats actively block real progress
Well, I’m old enough to remember when Joe Manchin killed the Build Back Better Act, when Barack Obama decided to bailout the banks and not mortgage holders, when Bill Clinton gutted welfare…the party went center-left (debatably center-right on some issues) back in the 90s because they decided that would be a better path to victory. If that’s their strategy, fine, but then they aren’t entitled to progressive votes.
And again, to his credit, I think Biden has tried harder than all of his predecessors to earn progressive votes: rescheduling marijuana, attempting go cancel student debt, proposing the BBB. He’s certainly realized that he can’t take progressive turnout for granted, much more than his party has. But Gaza is an albatross around his neck, and it’s not the college protesters he needs to be worried about, it’s the 300,000 Palestinian-Americans that are about to hand Michigan to Trump.
Well people could unite behind an actually progressive party. And that would give them the momentum to surpass the Dems and kick them out of the two party system. You are again gaslighting yourself to go back to your abusive spouse, saying it is better to have some partner, even if the beats and betrays you and has repeatedly shown to not get better except for some small tokens he tosses towards you.
The Dems are deeply entrenched in being a far right neoliberal party. They could have given Bernie a chance, they could have worked to build up new talent after 2016 that is not the face of American corpocracy. Instead they chose the guy that is representing all of this to the maximum. Trump went on an anti establishment claim. What did the Dems but against him? Maximum establishment with CLinton and now Biden. And oh surprise it is not working well.
Again it is the DNC that want Trump over wanting to stop a genocide. It is the DNC that want Trump over providing universal healthcare. It is the DNC that want Trump over fully reforming student loans. It is the DNC that want Trump over not building the Trump wall, over not putting small children in internment camps at the border, from where thousands disappear into child trafficking and over not closing fucking Guantanamo Bay, like Obama promised in 2007-2015.
If you want a progressive party your best bet is morphing the DNC into one. Look at the RNC right now, they changed the party starting from a grass roots movement. The change is shite but that’s how they did it. They also had lots and lots of funding from outside sources (see: murdoch)
End the day, you want a progressive party you have to change the face of the democratic party. How do you do that, you take over government on a local and state level and then you pursue the executive branch. Don’t believe me ask the 1000000 3rd party’s that have come and gone being jam fisted in place to serve as a spoiler then forgotten about.
Could do so much more if we changed the way we voted. Fptp has to go.
No… You and I and many of these protesters and yes, a lot of people could unite under an actual progressive. That doesn’t mean they could actually unite enough people to win a modern presidential race and even if they did it doesn’t mean they’d be able to get what we want done. Politics is strategic and is ALWAYS going to be about finding the common ground that is the better option, not the perfect option, and that option is never, ever going to be a black and white “not evil” option.
Every chance you get vote for our left wing populist candidates and other progressives, by all means. And protest and cause a fuss to move the window as much as you’re able. But when it comes to final votes, be strategic or be irrelevant and impotent.
I have never seen “strategic voting” to work. No in FPTP systems, not in relative systems with multiple parties.
It is a divide and conquer tactic. At the end of the day there is no representation of which votes were “strategic” and which votes were in support of policy. So the party/candidate will always assume this to be his full mandate to do what he wants. All you do is invalidating your voice as something to be glossed over.
Also notice how the fascists don’t vote strategically? They keep voting fascist and they keep pushing fascist and with that they move everything in the political window closer towards them. In my country in one state everybody voted the “conservative” far right populist party to avoid the fascist party to come out strongest. What is the result? 5 years of far right politics that strengthened the fascist parties positions and they are set to win that state “by a landslide” next time or alternatively the only coalition option to be fascists+“conservatives”.
Dude you’re so right, let’s vote trump in and show the world what we really think!
you’re not the only voter, dipshit. they have to cater to a large swathe of opinions and demographics. i know you surround yourself with little parrots until you think your voice is a chorus, but it’s not. BE REALISTIC, CHILDREN.
So you are saying the majority of americans are in support of Israels genocide? Then why are the opinion polls show the literal opposite? Especially among people who tend to be Dem voters?
Why are you shilling for a genocide, instead of helping the Dems get more votes by doing what the majority of the American people want?
All I’m saying is nothing is worth letting DJT get elected. Some dems still support Biden regardless of this issue. Don’t let young, impressionable voters get distracted by focusing on what he’s failing to do. If we amplify the finger pointing at him, it might lead some people to vote third party or abstain.
Dude I’m sorry but how old are you?
Blue Maga
scum(a pleonasm) even more hawkish that the like of Nixon to say the least…
What about Atrocity Trump? They point at Biden, but never the disaster trump would ensure.
Biden is the one supporting slaughter right now, and Biden is the one with power to stop it.
What would protesting Trump do?
Honestly? It would keep him hopefully from having a close enough election to contest it, game it, and potentially evade punishment for the crimes he’s actually on trial RIGHT NOW for committing. Then there is precedent for punishing a president and guess who can be next?
Biden does not sit on a button that says “lower gas prices” or “defund Israel” or “hold trump accountable” or any of a whole variety of things in the first place. Can he do more? Sure. Would I trash him because everybody has to do the exact right thing with the exact right issue every time or I’m going to take my ball and go home to let the other guy win and escape punishment for the first time ever? Fuck. No.
Get precedent for punishment, then punish them all.
The US by its own law must not send weapons to war criminals and actors preventing US humanitarian efforts Israel is doing both. All Biden has to do is uphold US law. Why are you letting him get away with the same shit that Trump did?
See last sentence of previous comment.
Nobody has to get away with anything, the only trick is not chasing every squirrel in the park to make sure nothing gets done.
Trump tells Israel to “finish the job” in gaza,
https://apnews.com/article/trump-israel-gaza-netanyahu-biden-ba17bedaf2f1b5f2ea220828d0fba73b
You should try knowing what you’re talking about some time
Read my comment very carefully. Where did I say “Trump would do less harm?” Exactly nowhere.
Protesting Trump for what he will probably do if he makes it to office rather than the sitting president actively supporting genocide is hilariously ineffective.
You should try knowing what you’re talking about some time
It’s implied in a two party system kiddo
No it isn’t, lmao. Who the fuck protests someone who can’t fix the problem at hand? Do you want to protest against Hitler for also being worse than Biden as Biden assists in slaughtering children?
“Kiddo,” you’re deeply unserious.
Ensure he doesn’t get into office and push Israel harder to annihilate every Gazan.
Israel is already absolutely blasting every man, woman, and child in Gaza, with no sign of stopping. Could Trump be worse? Sure. Is giving Biden a pass and falling in line with his genocide going to make things better? Absolutely the fuck not.
I didn’t say anything about Biden, only that Trump getting into office would make make Israel feel emboldened to kill more children with Trump openly applauding and perhaps even supporting with American troops on the ground. Biden needs to change his view but we are protesting while standing on the lip of a maga volcano.
Biden is openly appluading it and sending American weapons. If you think Trump is bad, I agree! Biden needs to be worth voting for.
“Bidens at fault for his inaction” “I’m not at fault for my inaction”
What action can we take to make biden not support genocide?
They already do.
You’re going to have to give me some yoga tips. Your stretching is impressive.
You know who’s currently president and is currently sending weapons to Israel right?
I’m so glad Trump is running because it means Biden can do literally anything and every single voter can just scream BUT TRUMP TOO and suddenly Joe is absolved.
You know who wants to be president and will do the same thing, right?
That’s completely unrelated. Biden is the current president, and he must answer for his decisions.
If Biden is concerned he’ll loose to Trump over this, THEN STOP FEEDING THE GENOCIDE. It’s that simple.
Wouldn’t it be nice if trump answered for his.
You are entirely missing the point here. You seem so deluded by factionalism that you can’t see this as anything but a democrat vs Republican issue.
This is a HUMAN GODDAMN LIVES issue. A literal genocide is happening and you’re playing the whataboutism game. “Whataboutism” is used way too much as a phrase in discussions, but this is a textbook example of it.
“Biden is contributing to genocide.”
“But trump is a criminal.”
“Okay…but people are literally being slaughtered and starved on the US’s dime and the president is still voicing support in the face of the atrocities we are all witnessing.”
“But trump-“
Just stop. No one here likes trump. We understand stacking domestic chaos on top of this issue is no good. But we are faced with no good option right now. The entire argument for voting for democrats over republicans is usually “but we can push the democrats through shame to do what is right.” THAT IS WHAT THIS IS.
We’re not playing politics. We’re playing try to save some goddamn lives with civil disobedience.
It’s not that “trump is a criminal” it’s that https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-israel-gaza-finish-problem-rcna141905
It will continue/be worse under trump.
Like, it’s something we all understand. But that doesn’t absolve the Biden admin’s full-dive involvement. This administration is complicit in genocide.
That doesn’t mean another president wouldn’t be as well. The US as a country and entity is complicit. But that’s what we’re trying to change by calling out the weaker link—because the point isn’t playing politics. It’s stopping the genocide. What’s happening right now in Gaza is untenable. And Biden is supposed to be the better option—again, yes, we all understand trump would not be better. But that doesn’t change what’s happening. We need to be able to pressure our representatives, especially when they claim to be morally superior to the “other” party. And especially when they’re more likely to change. We have Biden over the barrel because it’s an election year, and he’s seeing a ton of pressure from people he needs the votes of. Hats leverage we don’t typically have. We need to use it. Also, it’s fuckin genocide. I don’t know how else to say it. And it needs to stop. This isn’t us claiming anything except we don’t want what’s happening to continue. We’re not discussing the election. This supersedes it.
This is what we need to do. Because, the point is stopping the genocide. Not playing politics. And that’s what you just can’t see past. Like I said, we voted for Biden knowing he was supposed to be the more morally sound option. And here he is participating in genocide. We are trying to push the president who is vulnerable on this issue to do the right thing. That’s what needs to happen. BECAUSE THERE IS A FUCKING GENOCIDE TAKING PLACE. That fact isn’t going away, no matter how much of a disaster trump would be. This president is vulnerable on the issue, and the point isn’t politics. It’s stopping a goddamn genocide.
What is your point you’re making here? Because you’re not saying anything anyone else doesn’t know. But that doesn’t we shouldn’t be skewering Biden for this. Because he holds the reins of power. This is what we should be doing, if not more.
You make it sound like that’s something you’d expect would happen out of his own volition?
Biden?
Do you know who’s currently sending weapons to Israel?
Hint: it’s not Biden.
What
???
What’s up with liberals on lemmy telling blatant obvious lies? We both know he bypassed congress multiple times to send them weapons, who are you trying to convince here?
How is that relevant to this? Are people not allowed to protest now because “other guy would be worse”? That’s an actual authoritarian tactic.
This isn’t saying “Trump would be better”. This is saying “Biden supporting a genocide is unacceptable”.
Woaah. Hold up there cowboy. Are you suggesting we hold politicians responsible for their policy?
deleted by creator
It’s very counterproductive given the two party system, yes. Especially when you consider Congress is restricting a lot of what he can do, he does not have the power to just cut off any foreign power he wants
Our well-meaning but powerless leader, their iron-handed despotic dictator, etc etc etc
Our profitable and innovative medical industrial complex, their ineffective and authoritarian free healthcare, etc
Yeah, we should all pretend everything’s fine so that after the election happens we can keep sending bombs to do genocide.
I personally fully agree with the image created by the protestors AND plan on voting for Biden.
You’ll vote for him but do nothing to help him win
Not quite. I will criticize him ruthlessly while in the same breath acknowledging that he is the best realistic option we have and stating others should also vote for him. I know the masses are dumb and easily swayed, but staying silent isn’t something I am morally OK with. What I am doing is the compromise I have made with myself that best takes all of my personal beliefs and ethics into account.
“You should vote for a person enabling genocide because the other candidate hypothetically would have done worse in an alternate reality, maybe.” Real high iq take there.
Rambling idiot not in power rambles. What a great rebuttal.
Rambling idiot - who will get in if biden isn’t elected - says what he will support.
Dude says lots of things. His actual track record is not warlike and his inlaws, grandkids are Jewish.
He has indirectly he’s made it so much worse. What does his family being Jewish have anything to do with anything?
My best friend is black, I can’t be racist
Whataboutism
Whataboutism is an appeal to hypocrisy. We are facing a general election, talking about the opposing candidate is necessary.
So if two candidates are in direct competition, it’s fair to respond to criticism of one by bringing up problems with the other.
Does this logic also hold if you replace the word “candidate” with “country?”
Yeah, because what I imagine will happen is far more important than what is happening!
ITT: Shills for the DNC that forgot what first amendment rights mean
Wouldn’t they just be expressing their… nm
They need to outlaw illumination
Yes, I’m done with all those near-identical motion flicks
The first amendment means I get to camp in your front yard if I’m upset enough at something!
If i pay you tens of thousands to use that property every semester then it is my god damn right to camp on the yard i am paying for.
Real “I pay your salary because I pay taxes” energy. Blocking access to an abortion clinic is also not a first amendment right, even if you pay the taxes that build the roads.
How is sitting on a lawn in the campus, and that is how the protests started, occupying buildings came only after the brutal police crackdown, in any way comparable to that?
Also the students are quite literally paying to be able to go to the campus and use the campus facilities, often even living in dorms on the campus grounds. Imagine you are a tenant and your landlord just arbitrarily forbids you from using the hallway connecting to your flat because he doesnt like you in particular using it.
Oh and of course to stay in your example, the unis and police were happy to have actual abortion enemy proud boys come to the campus and actually attack students and actually do all the things they wrongly accused the peaceful protestors off.
Hell yeah, fuck that guy.
Many are saying this
To all of you worried that Biden’s support of genocide (or whatever words you use to pussyfoot around the issue) will cause Trump to win the upcoming election, I would like to remind you most of these students are most likely not on Lemmy. If Biden wants to win an election, he has to do things that will get people to vote for him; not simply cry Trump exists. I’m so sick of this fearmongering tactic; the man is literally trying to turn off their preferred form of information while stomping on their other first amendment rights as well.
Is it asking much for you to actually be a candidate worth voting for when your biggest opponent is Trump? So much skirting around the question
blah blah blah, what about
her emailsthe other guy. - Biden supportersUninformed teenagers are no different than uninformed adults.
Trump tells Israel to “finish the job” in gaza, while Russian operatives and provocateurs try to convince kids that Biden is the worse choice
https://apnews.com/article/trump-israel-gaza-netanyahu-biden-ba17bedaf2f1b5f2ea220828d0fba73b
He says many things. Trump also ended a few wars in the region as well. Trump has a better record in the Middle east then the last two Democratic presidents (one big bomb versus 100,000s of deaths). Bringing up the Middle East for the US presidential election is a negative point for Democrats (unless you want to go back to Bush who left office decades ago).
Trump is still out of jail because this current government is that incompetent.
Do you mean George W. Bush in 2009?
Yes, I counted one of Bidens or Trumps terms twice as a mistake.
Exactly. Simply existing as the lesser of two evils isn’t enough anymore. You actually have to do things to get votes.
Or is that what he’s doing? He’s just not trying to get the youth vote and is trying to pull conservative boomers by shitting on Gen Z and “owning the youth”? “See I can piss off the left just like Orange Jesus!”
Especially when both of them have already won that office (and neither deserve to be reelected).
These kids are gonna feel none of the blowback when trump wins and when actual palestinians ask them why they let the Genocide come here they’ll give some karen shit about how it’s the party’s job to convince them to vote against fascism happening here.
Yeah
“Genocide Joe” seems like the perfect republican plot to make people abstain from voting because the deliberately leave out how Trump would make matters 100 times worse.
Biden is constantly challenging Netanyahu while Trump would deliberately hand them a full and permanent occupation of Palestine on a silver plate.
People already forgot that it was trump who moved the embassy to Jerusalem basically destroying the USAs support for a two state solution?
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It would be the ideal platform for the GOP to run on…if they weren’t also in AIPAC’s pocket like the Democrats and Biden.
The GOP isn’t going to run on it. They’re going to use it as a tool to get people who would otherwise vote against them, to not vote or to vote third party. It isn’t about what their stance on the issue is.
Oh, you bet. Republicans are getting a big fat chub over this topic. This war in Gaza is the best thing that could have ever happened to them in the year long run up to the election. Wouldn’t doubt that China and Russia are also responsible for spreading the message to sow discord and doubt. For every person they successfully convince to stay home on election day, that shortens that gap between Trump and Biden by one less vote in Trump’s favor, not to mention the even more important down ballot races.
Forget trying to explain this to people on Lemmy, though. They’re not interested in listening.
biden is challenging netanyahu
Literally the exact opposite, actually. He’s blocking the ICCs attempts to prosecute netanyahu.
Ewww… Sanity.
Cant wait for 20 bad faith actors to drop in and downvote the shit out of u the second this post/comment starts picking up steam.
E: here they are! This post kicked off with 6 or 7 comments all echoing this sort of sanity, but here come the downvote brigade making it look like truth is less popular than fiction. Per the usual, calling it out angers the vlad supporters greatly. Of course its the usual suspects, too, come to defend their paid comrades efforts to fuck up our elections.
As someone pointed out before, its all goebbels style repetition of the same continually disproven points, but hearing it enough plants the seed in enough minds to where it starts to sound like truth.
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Yeah, we should let Joe do genocide because if we don’t, Trump will do genocide 😢
Pathetic.
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Obviously Trump would be much worse. No sane person would say otherwise, and I do object to his campaign.
The point is, Biden has always, and continues to support the apartheid and slaughter of countless Palestinians. This cannot be ignored.
Right now, Biden is in office and is signing bills to send bombs to Israel which will be used to kill Palestinian families.
These protests are an effort to end such policies, and reduce funding to companies who participate in the genocide.
The protests are an effort to force Biden to make an effort to end this tragedy.
You guys will protest your way to a Trump presidency like a bunch of fools. Happens every 4 years, the rubes fall for the third party push.
If the democrats would stop supporting genocide then this wouldn’t be an issue
Youre scary when mad, i love it. Keep arguing for sanity amigo.
Apparently the mods either disagree or agree too much
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Yes. Exactly. Because while Joe might do genocide there, Trump will do genocide here.
Or would you prefer to sacrifice your trans neighbors for your righteousness?
I don’t think you understand what protests are. Protests exist to influence policy. If Mr. Joe wants votes, change policy, get votes. It really is simple!
Remind me how Mr. Joe is protecting trans people down in the southern states?
Remind me how Mr. Joe is protecting trans people down in the southern states?
The president can say “Hey Congress, can you make this bill?” but Congress has no obligation to listen to him. Unless trans rights are being violated specifically by executive agencies, the president’s influence is pretty limited.
It’s different with Isreal, in that Biden has to approve foreign aid bills made by Congress, he himself expresses support for aid to Isreal, and he has the power to make treaties (as long as Congress approves them)
Is the president a king? Can he unilaterally decide policies and enforce them on states? Where did you get your education? North Korea?
Our well-meaning but powerless leader, their iron-handed despotic tyrant,
Our government does not give him the power. I’m taking a class on the US government right now and this is literally just how it works. We give that power to congress and the states, and we can’t really change that without a constitutional amendment. This is with regards to trans rights in the south, he does actually have some more power when it comes to Israel.
You sure do love states rights.
Dude actual Palestinians are not going to give a crap for Trump’s ‘genocide’ in the US. They have a real genocide inflicted upon them to deal with.
“Um, aktually sweatie, if the Palestinians didn’t want US jets running sorties on the West Bank, they should have convinced the DEMONRATS to run a better candidate”
Don’t worry - just as “BIDEN HATES UNIONS” was the drumbeat before October 7, so too would they find some other excuse to make life worse for the oppressed if Biden cut off all aid to Israel tomorrow.
Whataboutism.
Another day with a similar post about how Biden is single handedly murdering children in Gaza.
It has to be bots… right? Or bad faith actors.
Could Biden do more to reduce the suffering in this war, probably. But no one here is point ling out specific executive powers he should be exercising or diplomacy that’s being left on the table. Instead it’s all personal attacks that appear primarily motived to discourage likely democratic voters by drawing lines between their votes and enabling genocide. As if it’s somehow that simple.
Stop sending money and weapons to Israel. Full stop.
The president doesn’t have that power. That power is reserved by congress.
People really didn’t pay attention to their middle grade civics lessons, did they?
What about all the times he bypassed congress to support israel? Other than obviously supporting them in the UN?
Biden bypasses congress to send weapons to israel (again): https://apnews.com/article/us-israel-gaza-arms-hamas-bypass-congress-1dc77f20aac4a797df6a2338b677da4f
I can’t give you details about how it all works because I’m not an expert. I’m pretty confident the president can’t override funding thar congress has allocated though. There are ways they can spend money, but they can’t get rid of already allocated funding.
If congress says we’re giving arms to Israel, there’s not much the president can do. They can probably delay it some, depending on how it was written, but it wouldn’t be legal to stop it.
Yes he has. The US is not allowed to send weapons to actors who commit war crimes and hinder US humanitarian efforts. The US is currently breaking that law, because the state department withholds the information that that is in fact what is happening, despite it being obvious. The president absolutely has the power to let the executive uphold the US law instead of breaking it.
the president has massive power and so we need to rally and stop trump
the president has very little power so you can’t blame biden
which is it for fucks sake
The republican plan is to replace the executive and judicial branch with sycophants. Rules don’t matter if your plan is to make sure rules can’t be enforced. The president doesn’t have the legal power to do it, but that may change with the plans the Republicans have set up.
Damn that sucks.
He should stop murdering children in Gaza, that would help a lot.
Yeah, when their “logic” leads up to “let’s elect Trump instead” it’s pretty damn sad
Why are you lying? The logic is quite simple: If the Dems uphold the US laws of not sending weapons to war criminals and genociders, if the Dems protect constitutional rights like free speach and if the Dems abide by international law and order, then they will be voted.
You are like an abused spouse making excuses for your abuser instead of demanding him to abide by the rules.
There is another way
They have zero chance with the current political system in the US and every vote for them is a vote strengthening Trump.
by voting for the PSL, I’m not voting for trump, which is actually a vote for biden. You should be thanking me!
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Whoa this guy got got, go look up the comment I made that got removed.
You didn’t get anyone. That comment was terrible.
No, no, and F NO!
You vote that and you can pretty much be sure that Trump wins.
Yes, it sucks, but vote Biden, like him or not. You can’t risk trump getting into a position of power…
and as I write this, why am I even trying? These university students are vapid and dumb enough to do this anyway, not vote or vote some alternative , thinking they are making the world better while they are actively destroying it. Sorry, but yes, people are unknowingly but willingly destroying their own and our futures.
If doing nothing is enough for collapse, then we’ve already effectively collapsed.
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I can comprehend an accelerationist argument. I.e. they think trump will accelerate a socialist revolution in America by triggering an awakening of class consciousness when he invariably goes full fascist dictator.
I don’t think it’s a very good argument for voting for trump.
These university students are vapid and dumb enough to do this anyway, not vote or vote some alternative , thinking they are making the world better while they are actively destroying it.
This mentality right here is exactly why you’re headed to a devastating runback of 2016. No seeing the other point of view or wondering why people would feel a certain way, just denigration and dismissal.
You better get to knocking on doors, you only got 6 months to go!
I’m not wrong though.
I’d would not vote Biden either but seriously, you know the alternative. It sucks that the US has gotten to the point where you always have to vote the least worse option, but it is what it is.
So, people just broadly don’t understand the concept of a protest vote, huh? If people don’t even understand that, then oy vey, we’re fuckin cooked lads I dunno what to tell yous, the democracy is already dead. Even beyond just first past the post voting, and all the shit that everyone knows is cooked but also knows will never get fixed. To the point that people can’t even like, understand strategic voting or the contexts in which it might happen. Just a flat incurious blanket creed screamed at opposition with no consideration for applications or the intricacies of how our democracies work.
Like I dunno, we’re cooked. Even if biden stopped being a shitheel and funding israel, or full tilted in the other direction and at least tried to apply the brakes instead of going above and beyond to accelerate it, he has to realize that all faith in his institution would be like, totally shot, right? Like, that everyone would just expect him to restart it again immediately after the election, with four extra years of basically no accountability for israel to “mow the lawn”? Or I guess in this place, rip out the lawn and replace it with more parking or whatever. Like, the strategy here has to be one of appealing to a kind of core bloodthirsty liberal base that will support the genocide even across bipartisan lines, because that’s what his actions would say. But then, that doesn’t make any sense at all, because his admin keeps leaking shit about how he’s so broken up over the fact that this is happening and oh no bros he wishes he could do more and his little heart just can’t take it.
I dunno. We’re so cooked from every angle. If Biden was going to stop, now would be the moment at which he would. It’s right before an election, there’s mass protests that are getting headlined. Maybe the pressure and violence of those protest might increase, but we’re just about getting to the point where the news cycle has probably chewed them up, and we’re also getting to the point, as far as I’ve seen, where gaza is so bombed out that images of it aren’t making it out as much as they used to, on top of the media already having worked it’s way through that. If Biden was gonna drop it, it’s around this point. If he still hasn’t and we’ve reached like actual election season, right, then there’s not really any amount of pressure that would’ve caused him to drop it, he would’ve clearly signaled by that point that israel killing people is more important to him than winning the presidency, or keeping trump from winning. If he was more interested in the latter then he probably would’ve already ceded the race to someone else more broadly appealing and primed to go for it that isn’t fucking 81 years old, to be honest.
Cooked, our cockles are cooked. We’ve never not been cooked, we’ll never not be cooked.
we’re giga cooked, tbqh. No country on the planet has ever been more cooked.
No matter who wins, I would like to pre-emptively congratulate Ronald Reagan on his 12th straight term as president of this great nation.
I think if you are privileged enough to grow up in America, and you hate America, there is something wrong with you. Yeah Unger people these days don’t just criticize America… They actively hate it without recognizing the privilege they have. It seems to be a failure of education and their own sense of worth. We live in one of the most free nations in the world. One of the safest. One that gives the most opportunity. But they get caught up in echo chambers that promote failed economic systems. It’s really frustrating to observe.
We live in one of the most free nations in the world
Students are catching facefuls of mace and rubber bullets for protesting, right now, btw. That activity protected by the 1st amendment. But freedom or whatever, yeah. We have so many freedoms, just don’t try to use them, or we’ll send the armor-clad thugs after you!
be america
destabilize other nations
overthrow democratically elected peoples
invade other countries
cause death, destruction, and chaos
more recently support a genocide
pickachu surprised face when people hate me
pickachu surprised face when my own populace learns about the atrocities I committed and is disgusted by it
Yes, we Americans are privileged, but whats wrong with being critical of our role and trying to change it? In the case of these students they are trying to do just that.
Quite the claims you’ve made: “Freedom” is difficult to quantify, but I would argue that as an individual we do typically have a decent standard of liberties. As long as you’re white, male and haven’t ever committed any sort of crime.
“One of the safest”, according to multiple safety ranking organizations, the US is on the higher half of crime rate (per capita) and typically ranks in the bottom half (89) in safety ratings. https://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp
“Gives the most opportunity” I think this depends largely on what you consider opportunity. If we look at poverty rates, the US is also not near the top with about an 18% poverty rate. I would consider anything more than 0% to be a place that does not provide the most opportunity. Sure, not everyone is willing to do what they need to get out of poverty, but certainly very few in that group are voluntarily there. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/poverty-rate-by-country
I do agree that Lemmy is very much an echo chamber of “capitalism bad”, but the US is also quite extreme in terms of wage and wealth disparity. It’s hard to believe your country is great when 10% of the population holds nearly 67% of the nation’s wealth, and the bottom 50% holds only 2.5% of it. That’s extremely polarized. https://www.stlouisfed.org/institute-for-economic-equity/the-state-of-us-wealth-inequality
I think if you are privileged enough to grow up in America, and you hate America, there is something wrong with you.
Do you have any more quotes from people complaining about the civil rights movement?
