Can I use my german passport to travel to USA or do I use my US passport?
And if I lived and worked in germany my whole life and never in the USA and never filed taxes can I enter USA without problems?
I just found out I am us citizen a few years ago don’t ask why but I’m 34 and recently traveled to US with my german passport and they were all like “wtf where is your passport” and I’m like: “Here…” and they “Yeah your american passport?!” and I’m “I’m german” and he is like: “Dude you are born on american ground you are american!”
Well they let me travel in to the states without american passport but told me to go to the embassy as soon as I arrive back in germany or else I won’t be able to enter USA again.
That being said, I done that. Now I have my american passport. But do I show both passports or only US passport? And after doing my research I found out americans file taxes every year. I haven’t done it the last 18 years of working. Should I just not file? I will never work in the USA and I will never live in the USA. Or will I get problems at the airport? Can they see I don’t file?
Leave Germany either your German passport. Enter the US with your US passport. Leave US with you US passport. Re-enter Germany with your German passport. Easy. Unless you are very wealthy the IRS aren’t going to come looking for you on a short stay.
I agree. This is what I do. Carry both in case that ask for the other.
I always carry all my passports when travelling. Gives you some options for embassies to flee to when shit hits the fan.
Well this makes murder mystery articles that say “…and he had 6 passports in his hotel room” much less interesting.
This is the way.
If you were born in the USA, lived in Germany your whole life, and only recently learned of your US citizenship, you need to seek legal advice from a German law firm or from the government. I suspect that getting your US passport was a huge mistake. You may want to contest the validity of your citizenship, as it doesn’t sound like it offers you any benefits, and might actually be a financial liability.
OP read this, they’re absolutely right - lawyer up!
Cause in the U. S. if you want to renounce your U. S. citizenship, you must settle your debts - which includes filing your U. S. Taxes.
… and yes, as a U. S. Citizen you need to file U. S. Taxes *even if you’ve never set foot in the U. S. *.
Note: there are double taxation laws between the U. S. and Germany, which prevent you from needing to pay taxes in U. S. (up to 100k / year or so), but you still must file them.
Also, as a U. S. Citizen, you’ll need to file annually a FBAR with the IRS. This is basically a disclosure to the IRS that you have non-u.s. bank accounts (that exceed, in total, 20k usd / year).
The point being is that, in theory, there could be fines for not doing this, which (in theory) you would have to pay before being allowed to renounce your citizenship.
In practice, the IRS is pretty approachable - so you probably won’t have an issue, but you’ll definitely want decide if you want to keep the U. S. Citizenship (and the work associated with it: annual taxes and fbar) or renounce it.
The (only) upshot of filing U. S. taxes abroad if you have kids is that you qualify for a Child Tax Credit. Which amounts to 1000 usd / kid / year (I don’t know if the kids need to have U. S. Citizenship or not)
Afaik your kids (under 18) are US citizens if you yourself are a citizen.
I don’t disagree, but why would him getting a US passport matter? Either way, he would still be a US Citizen.
Because getting the passport and traveling with it makes it pretty official. If you’ve never held a passport, it could be easier to argue that the citizenship isn’t valid at all, rather than having to go through the very expensive process of renouncing.
I don’t see why that distinction matters. The US has documentation saying OP was born in the US. That alone is enough to say he’s a citizen.
You’re saying that it doesn’t matter because the US government is able to prove his citizenship, but that isn’t in question. The crux of this matter would be whether OP was ignorant of his citizenship and if that ignorance would have any relevance to his case.
Securing official documents only available to American citizens makes it more difficult to argue that he was ignorant of his status as an American citizen. He likely could still make a compelling argument (provided he acts quickly), but it does make it a bit more difficult.
Because the US taxes it citizens. Regardless where they live
(oversimplified)
You can be a US Citizen without a passport. That was half the point of OP’s case lol
Sorry, was high and missed the point
The US does not recognize dual citizenship if you are a US citizen then you must use your US passport to enter the country.
Important distinction - the US doesn’t recognize it, but it also does not forbid it. You don’t need to renounce anything, but in the eyes of the US federal government, you’re a US citizen.
Always enter and exit the US with your US passport. Not doing so is illegal.
For anything else, use your German passport, especially in the EU. That’s what I have been doing for years.
I don’t know if it is an issue for immigration, but you absolutely are required to file taxes every year and can get in trouble if you don’t. There’s a “streamlined procedure” that you can do if you’ve never filed taxes to start filing without incurring any fines or penalties.
As a dual citizen, you are required to show your passport if citizenship for the receiving country - I have dual citizenship and it feels weird to show one passport to get on a plane and another to get off, but it’s what a customs officer will ask of you when you arrive.
Since OP was never an American resident or paid taxes, he or she shouldn’t need to file taxes or be flagged on a system for anything anyway.
Since OP was never an American resident or paid taxes, he or she shouldn’t need to file taxes or be flagged on a system for anything anyway.
Unfortunately the US is one of two countries that requires all citizens, regardless of past or present residence or employment, to pay federal taxes.
A US citizenship, regardless of whether you have a passport or have lived in the US, requires filing a tax return to the IRS every year. It doesn’t mean that you owe any money, but you still need to file.
Myeah sort of. I never had any problem coming into the U.K. on my Danish passport until after Brexit. Then they suddenly started demanding that I show my U.K. passport to enter.
my guy…
US citizens are obligated to enter the US on their US passport. They are also obligated to file taxes regardless of where they live. As a US citizen, you could be living on Mars for your whole life and still have to file US taxes.
You also have what, 6 years of back taxes to file? You should find a CPA with knowledge us US/German tax laws to prepare that for you. There may be treaties in place.
As someone else said, there’s also the selective service you were supposed to have registered for
I pay taxes in Germany, I earn about 40.000 € a year. So I don’t know.
I tried the IRS homepage but my english isn’t good enough to file taxes. I don’t understand much.
I am 35 years old and the lady that gave me my american passport tried to explain to me that I don’t have to sign up for selective service anymore, I am too old lol. I didn’t understand much of what she explained but she said: “it’s fine don’t sign up for it it’s for young people” and sent me out of the embassy in munich.
Selective Service is “the draft”. It’s where the country can force you into military service.
You should file for taxes. It’s highly likely you don’t actually owe any money. There’s probably an expat community in Germany that can help you out with finding someone familiar with US tax law without going to the US.
If you somehow owe taxes it could be a problem, but I really doubt that is the case.
Isn’t the US the only country in the world requiring its citizens to pay taxes if they both live and work abroad? Or is there some huge earning limit to that that most people will never reach?
Well… there is also Eritrea, a small country in West Africa.
The U. S. Taxes is based on the country you’re living in. If there are double taxation treaties between the two countries (ie: Europe and the U. S.), then the IRS would tax you on the amount you’ve earned over a certain limit (it was 100k usd, but I think was increased). Meaning, if you earned 110k usd, you’d be taxes on the 10k. If you earn less then 100k, you’d pay no U. S. Taxes.
If there isn’t a treaty, which is often the case in countries that tax their citizens less than the U. S. , then you’d basically be charged taxes in the U. S. (based on your worldwide income) minus whatever you paid the country you’re living in.
I’m not sure about only, but it’s the major one. I don’t know the full details since I don’t work in another country, but you’re essentially right. You have to make a lot of money to actually pay tax working in a foreign country. Google says the first $120k in USD is tax free. I believe you can also deduct taxes paid to the country you reside in if you happen to make more as well.
The US passport should probably be enough, as it shows that your are a US citizen, so free passage into US soil I think
I think the US you have to use your American one if you have it, no?
A lot of countries have that rule.
Recently got Canadian citizenship and it seems to be the case there also.
Hey OP there might be a double taxation clause you can invoke per the U.S.-German tax treaty, check this out: https://www.cpasforexpats.com/post/us-german-tax-treaty-guide
If you will never live in the US, you should renounce your citizenship. This will be permanent and irrevocable, so consider it wisely. This eliminates any issue with not filing taxes while working overseas.
In order to renounce my citizenship I have to file atleast 5 years to IRS lol. So even if I want to renounce my citizenship it’s currently not possible to do so because I haven’t filed in my life.
In order to “file” taxes I also require a social security number which I don’t have. I honestly don’t know where to find it lol.
You probably opened up a whole can of worms by getting your passport then. You are an American citizen and you have owed tax since you started working. This may come back to bite you at some point if the IRS decides to go after you.
They likely don’t owe tax, but they still legally have to file the paperwork
I suggest just not saying anything about it ever, and just tell the US govt you’re not a citizen at all if they ask.
Considering that he learned about his citizenship from a US immigration officer, lying about his citizenship is probably a criminal offense.
Is this possible? I’ve heard, that no matter what you do as an expat you’ll always have to file taxes for the US IRS.
From the point of view of the US, is renouncing citizenship even a thing? For Turkey for example it is not. You just can’t “delete” your Turkish citizenship.
Yes, it is a thing in the US. People do it mostly to avoid filing taxes with the US when they don’t plan on ever living here. It’s rather expensive and time consuming. You have to pay a big fee ($2350 + any unpaid taxes) to do it and set up an appointment with the embassy/consulate.
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Researching around this cause I thought it was interesting, certainly not an expert. Apparently your case is considered an “accidental American” and you can probably search for others in your scenario. The IRS has a tax treaty with Germany that should be able to help you reduce (or maybe eliminate) your tax burden.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/tax-implications-dual-citizenship-what-you-need-know-daniel-morris-jfxle https://www.irs.gov/businesses/international-businesses/united-states-income-tax-treaties-a-to-z
You can renounce your citizenship.
Or you can just hire a tax preparer to figure out your situation. See if they can consult with you virtually.
Apparently you’re still on the hook for all your taxes. But recently there were limits for the first $100k you earn, so you might owe nothing.
For earned income overseas, US grants a credit for income tax payed to a foreign government. So if you live overseas and work a job, and the country you live in has higher taxes than the US, you can end up owing no US tax. But you still have to file the tax return every year.
@Grogon@lemmy.world just file your missing years and include a letter explaining your situation and contact info.
Some paper clerk will pass it onto their supervisor who will pass it onto their supervisor who might send an auto generated letter or give you a phone call.
Ok, CPA here.
Don’t file anything without first talking to a tax accountant >with expat experience<. I don’t, but I have worked with some great people who do handle dual citizenship taxes. Happy to give names in a DM, but they are US-based. You might be able to find someone more convenient in Germany.
My first thought is a tiny nitpick: we’re now required to e-file except in certain situations, so no paper clerks involved, just databases. No one is looking, or you could pop out in a targeted search, or you could just get randomly selected for audit too (that’s an unfortunate reality). However, there are situations where citizens don’t have to file at all, if they make too little, for example. So the IRS isn’t looking for you because they’re not aware of you… yet. That changes with your first filing. See my next thought:
My second thought is don’t file ALL of your missing years. You may only need to file the last 7. The statute of limitations for IRS audit is 7 years. Technically it’s only 3 years and if they then find anything during an audit, they can look back up to 7, so you might be able to start with only the last 3 years. If you’re never selected for audit, congratulations, you saved yourself from having to file additional years. But the audit process is glacially slow. If… if… you get selected, you’ll first get a letter that gives you 30 days to respond. Go back to your tax preparer and work out a strategy for response.
If this turns into a giant debacle and pain in your wallet, I agree with others that you might consider renouncing your citizenship. **Again, seek advice of professionals before taking action. **
Could you figure out how to do this on your own, yes. Do you absolutely need a tax preparer, probably not. But your situation isn’t a simple one, and I truly feel their fees will be worth the advice and not having to file unnecessary years.
One of your questions I didn’t see answered:
And after doing my research I found out americans file taxes every year. I haven’t done it the last 18 years of working. Should I just not file?
You have two choices:
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Full Disclosure : you tell the IRS, you haven’t filled and ask them to help you rectify the situation. This could mean penalties and fines for filing late or based on your situation, they might let is slide (as it was an honest oversight). Once you’ve gone through this, then your back in the IRS’ good graces (assuming you still file your taxes and fbar annually)
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A “stealth” disclosure : (there’s a better name but I forgot was it’s called) basically, you just start to file your 2023 taxes and pretend that nothing has happened during the last 18 years… if you do this for the next 5 years (or 7 years?) and the IRS does not say anything, then you’re back in the IRS good graces (they can only penalize you for x number of years) . But if the IRS decides to contact you, then they could throw the book at you (more than if you went with option 1).
Ultimately, it’s a gamble with a risk. However, if you’ve recently learned of your citizenship and got a passport. I think it’s quite plausible to get some lienency, both for the full disclosure and the stealth disclosure.
The IRS has a special procedure for this case called “streamlined procedure”. Unfortunately it’s a little complicated and you have to pay close attention to all the required details.
My english isn’t good enough for that. I need someone to help me translate it.
In that case you should contact a professional who has done this thing before. But be aware, it’s quite expensive. This site, for example, charges 749 €.
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One other point, assuming you are male, you were supposed to register for the US Selective Service at the age of 18. There are potential serious consequences for not doing so.
You can contact them and explain your case. Or maybe you don’t need to now as you are past age 25. They are easy to contact and speak with.
Source - same situation with family member
I pay taxes in Germany, I earn about 40.000 € a year. So I don’t know.
I tried the IRS homepage but my english isn’t good enough to file taxes. I don’t understand much.
I am 35 years old and the lady that gave me my american passport tried to explain to me that I don’t have to sign up for selective service anymore, I am too old lol. I didn’t understand much of what she explained but she said: “it’s fine don’t sign up for it it’s for young people” and sent me out of the embassy in munich.
I work since I am 17 years old in germany and got the information that I am american citizen when I was about 32 (first time in america) I tried to enter with my german passport. The people at the airport told me I am american and need a passport. I didn’t know until then.
If someone at a US consulate/embassy told you not to worry about the selective service because of your age, it’s probably fine.
Good luck sorting out your tax situation. My kids are dual US and Canada and haven’t had to pay any US taxes yet as there is a tax treaty between the two countries. It has been expensive for me to pay someone to file the US taxes though.
For entering and exiting the US you should have a US passport and travel using it. Bring your German passport with you for proof of citizenship once you enter Germany. It’s basically your visa, and dictates if you can enter the country and the permitted duration of stay. Passports are complicated, always do your research before travelling, or just call your carrier.
I thought traveling with 2 passports was a big no-no?
I worked as a check in agent in Australia for 2 years and we had zero issues with people carrying two passports with them. I’ve dealt with flights regarding Melbourne, Singapore, Sydney, Doha, Kuala Lumpur, LAX, Ottawa and others, none of which I can recall anyone being pulled aside for carrying a second passport.
That said I’m not a border security officer, and it’s best to check with your origin/destination’s border security website, because I don’t know if that is an issue in some port I’m not familiar with.
Why would it be?
There’s a decent chunk of countries that outlaw dual citizenship, so I’m honestly not surprised that this is the case.
I can imagine that some authorities might find it suspicious, but in OPs case, it is necessary to travel with both passports to have the least hassle.
Entering the US with your German passport or returning to Germany with your US passport if you have both will lead to a lot of questions as you won’t have the necessary visa in those passports.
Edit: Although I wouldn’t present both passports at the same time, only the one that is applicable or more convenient for wherever you are.
Me too. I’ve heard a story from a friend who did that (Aus, UK) and had guns pulled on him in Singapore for it followed by being pulled aside while an investigation ensued.
