I’m a bit leery about it being a Tencent city as it reminds me a bit of what Google tried to do in Toronto. I’m hoping it’s not going to turn into a corporate fiefdom of some sort. On the other hand, I like a lot of technical aspects of it such as eliminating cars, and creating green space.
Overall, I’m uncomfortable with the amount of capitalism happening in China, and with capitalists being allowed in the party. I’m very impressed with things China managed to achieve so far, but the growing capitalist class there really does worry me.
China is probably the only country in the world that executes death sentences for corrupt billionaires. So I dont think capitalists would have any chance to take back power.
Yeah, the fact that the rich aren’t completely above the law means that the system is working right now. On the other hand, stuff like this makes me concerned that the rich are starting to undermine it https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/2173090/chinese-campus-crackdown-young-marxist-activists-expands-major
I dont know what that was about, but it stopped a while ago afaik. And I’m not sure what exactly they mean by calling them “Marxists”, considering that everyone in China studies Marx in school.
The story is from a couple of years ago, so maybe that stuff got addressed since. There is a difference between studying Marx in school, and actually applying what you study in everyday life. I grew up in the Soviet Union, and we studied Marx and Lenin as well, but most people didn’t really think about theory or its application all that much unfortunately. And that’s what allowed Gorbachev and Yeltsin to do what they did. Now that people got to enjoy capitalism for a few decades they’re realizing what they lost, but clawing that back isn’t going to be easy now that Russia’s run by an oligarchy.
I understand the wisdom behind Deng’s reforms. Allowing Western companies in allowed for rapid technological growth and was likely a necessary evil to becoming a real superpower. The downside is that it created billionaires, and they have no place in a communist society in my opinion. I really hope China will eventually require all businesses to be cooperatively owned and proceed to eliminate the billionaire class.
As a side note, it’s also really unfortunate that the Soviet Union moving to do market reforms caused a break with China. Imagine the world today if China and USSR stayed on good terms at the time.
I think it’s a difference of power. In the US it’s the rich that hold the power. In china it’s the political elite. Allowing a disruptor to be killed is not justice, it’s just another form of power play.
In China its the communist party, which has 90 million members. That means almost everyone in China knows a party member personally. How many members does the governing party in your country have?
What is this in reference to and what is your argument?
I was highlighting the difference in power politics. In my country the rich (powerful) use the police to destroy data and raid homes if it looks like someone might disrupt their bottom line. In china it is the same, but something that would be inconceivable here (arresting the rich) is possible because the power dynamics are different.
I am not discussing which is a better system; though I do have a strong opinion on that.
This is really cool, and I hope it succeeds. I love the idea of a city with no cars, and all the greenery looks nice. My main concern is that it’s built by a corporation, and their focus on blurring the lines beween work and personal life, but that could also be better depending on how it’s done. Overall it looks really cool and I look forward to seeing it play out!
I’m glad to see a post that’s positive about China. Most people and politicians from the West like trash-talking China for pollution, even though China is drastically improving and historically Western countries have produced more pollution than China.
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Europe and the US have definitely produced more pollution than China in absolute terms. Both have polluted for hundreds of years, China just started very recently.
I think it’s also important to keep in mind that a lot of pollution produced in China comes from commodities that are consumed in America and Europe. So, the source of pollution is still largely rooted in Western growth and consumerism.
Reminds me of Chernobyl “has sport, shops, food, and entertainment facilities”. Like, what dystopic middle class city doesn’t have these things. Creepy vibe
The only actual info on the site is at 4.36. It looks like it’s just a port extension that they’ve used to add more city onto. Hardly a new venture for HK / China.
Why is that description dystopian for you, just because its about China?
It’s dystopian, because it’s a city built by a megacorp. I mean, maybe they actually expect to make a profit at some point out of just offering apartments for rent, but we should assume that they will try to achieve more than that, e.g.:
- “Optimizing” citizens for work
- Surveillance
- Conveniently forgetting to offer things that the company disagrees with
- Excluding competitors
What I was referring to was the idea of a city without basic things like sport and entertainment facilities
That should be enough, yes.
But mostly I’m just not a fan of megacities
I’m usually weary when “Futuristic” and “China” are in the same sentence, vis-à-vis privacy concerns and state overreach and all that.
Not that they’re alone in that mind you, but they do particularly tend to not hold back at all.
