no source code, no thanks.
(macOS and windows are “partially” open source too…)
But Mac and Windows sources are not auditable, you can access only with inverse engineering. Same with Chrome and Edge, theyare also partially OpenSource (Chromium). This in Vivaldi this isn’t needed, if you know scripting, you can modify the proprietary part to your like (at your own risk, logic), in it’s community they even show you how to do this (Modding Vivaldi). Vivaldi isn’t OpenSource in the strict sense, but it isn’t like other proprietary soft, call it maybe OpenSource with 5% proprietary but visible Source. Vivaldi source code https://vivaldi.com/source/
Vilvaldi is no more trustworthy than Edge or Opera. It’s not open sourced. Just use Firefox, Ungoogled-Chromium, or even Brave.
False. EDGE, Opera, Chrome, and also Firefox make money with surveillance advertising (yes, also Firefox/ Mozilla is sponsored by Google, selling data to Alphabet.Inc and Nest, apart using googleanalytics), Vivaldi don’t, it use sponsor links and search engines which give a comision if you use them, but you can also delete these if you like, also the desactivate the Chromium Google APIs, degoogle Vivaldi, simply in the privacy settings, if you want, Vivaldi is as private as the user wan’t it to be.
Brave make money redirecting searches to afiliate sponsors, among them Facebook. It is a cryptominer, apart have ads which you can’t delete.
Vivaldi is the only browser company, active in campaigns against the surveillance advertising, the compay us a Icelandic cooperative, own by it’s employees. Yes, it isn’t full OpenSource (5% of the source related to the UI), but full auditable and moddeable by the user for private use, they even show you how..
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It’s not that simple, you can offer an OpenSource browser, but this in a browser that is almost an onlineOS, rather than just a simple browser like others, is somewhat more complicated. Apart from this Closed Source thing, it is not quite correct, only a small part of the script is proprietary soft but completely auditable and accessible and even modifiable for the user for personal use.
There has been an internal debate for quite some time on this point, to make Vivaldi OpenSource entirely, but this, at least for the moment, is not that desirable. If I did it now, Chrome and EDGE would not take a day to use these scripts, which would be the end of Vivaldi and others.
Google and MS already in the past tried to block Vivaldi from the market as an uncomfortable competitor, which led the team to decide, against their own interests and to avoid problems for the user, to remove Vivaldi from it’s UA string, which is why now it just shows up as Chrome. With this, the problems of being able to access pages that previously blocked it with a Pop Up were suddenly removed, claiming that Vivaldi was not compatible, which naturally was a lie and was based only on the name Vivaldi in the UA.
This is what happens in the world of browsers and global players Google, Microsoft who want to dominate the market and only allow others who are subordinate and let them track the user. Why do you think there are already 2 Linux distros that have replaced Firefox and adopted Vivaldi as the default browser (Manjaro and FerenOS)? In others it is also already debated.
OpenSource is important and the best manner to develop new products, but this in a market with nearly 100 browsers, forks of only three diferent engines, some exotics apart, and other 70 discontinued or abandoned, make not so much sense, there prevail other values. Thrustworthy, security and privacy isn’t sinonym of OpenSource, the advantage of OpenSource is pure tecnically, no ther. Remember, all Apis from Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon and other big companies are OpenSource, Android is OpenSource, Kindle FireOS is OpenSource (a fork of Android), also a lot of other FOSS include this APIs. GitHub is paid proprietary of Microsoft, the biggest catalogue of OpenSource projects is from Google (Google Code) As user don’t trust who say FOSS = good, Proprietary soft = crap, because it isn’t so easy. For the normal user only import how the companie treats the user, the product do what the user want, it has a good support and a communit to help, all with a good privacy and security. All other maybe interesting for developers, who can read the source or modify it for own use, they can use the Chromium script y some more, which is OpenSource for own projects, or all the code for modding Vivaldi for the own use. Something what you can’t do with Chrome or Edge or the now Chinese Opera. https://vivaldi.com/source/
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I am clear that you are only asking without bad intentions and that is why I have answered you Yes, there is 5% of the code that is proprietary, although fully auditable and even modifiable by the user, this is what differentiates Vivaldi from other closed source apps, where the proprietary part is completely closed and not accessible. That is, although proprietary soft, you can be 100% sure of what you are using.
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That is, although proprietary soft, you can be 100% sure of what you are using
sorry but unless they provide access to the complete proprietary source code in a form where you can actually compile it yourself and run it instead of their binaries, you are mistaken.
You can access and even modify these 5% related to the UI. There are a interview with Tetzcher and Manjaro, where this is explaint very well. https://youtu.be/ivDiL9XeDw0
From a comment of yours here:
That is, although proprietary soft, you can be 100% sure of what you are using.
This is a summation of all your arguments regarding Vivaldi. They can be safely put into the dustbin. If you had a sliver of idea about how closed and open code works, you would not be so ignorant in selling people this Vivaldi fandom. This is literally a classic example of tribalism, where people gather others to join them, so that they feel more comfortable.
Tribalism? No, Positive experience with a product that was confirmed a thousand and one times in all technical publications, including It’s FOSS and several publications and forums dedicated to Linux. To mention not only the technical aspect, but also for the ethics of this cooperative focused on the user, whose needs and requests are voted on democratically and included in the updates.
I like OpenSource and I prefer it as much as possible, but you can’t always find valid FOSS alternatives for a product, you can’t always go around the world with this black and white vision. If it weren’t for proprietary products, which you still use, you wouldn’t even be able to post on this social network, because you didn’t have internet access. You can’t see some multimedia contents that require proprietary codecs and drivers, the same firmware of your PC sure isn’t FOSS either, do you use Startpage, DDG, Qwant to search?, because they are proprietary soft, others like SearX, MetaGer, Whoogle, are FOSS , but they have to use proprietary search engines, from which are they front-ends, because there isn’t a suitable FOSS search engine that works. FOSS is certainly preferable in a Software or service, but just the categorical statement that FOSS = good and Proprietary = crap shows very little knowledge, .
What is good or bad is not related to whether it is FOSS or not, it depends on many other factors as well.
- The reliability
- Good maintenance
- Good user support
- Good practices regarding privacy and security
- Good functionality No big tech company (Vivaldi has a big name behind, Jon von Tetzchner, CEO of the old Opera, who founded with own money a small Icelandic cooperative, proprietary of its employees, no big tech company)
- Above all, not to sell your data to third parties to earn money. as Firefox/Mozilla (FOSS) does (Alphabet.Inc and NEST, advertising companies of Google) or practices cryptomining with its use, such as Brave (FOSS) and worse practices in the past, not thrustworthy, whose new search engine, by the way, is also a proprietary service.
Above all, not to sell your data to third parties to earn money. as Firefox/Mozilla (FOSS) does (Alphabet.Inc and NEST, advertising companies of Google)
Why are you using lies and FUD about independent browsers to prop up Vivaldi?
I do agree, it depends on many factors, all of which make Firefox stand at the top among all browsers, especially Vivaldi, that has fans only due to UI (fully modifiable in Firefox unlike Vivaldi), and not fans of security, stability or privacy advocacy.
Proprietary is either crap, bloated or worthless besides a handful exceptions. Vivaldi just exists in the same way Maxthon does. It exists, but besides the proprietary UI, nobody knows why.
Each one uses the browser that convinces them and that best suits their needs. I have been using Vivaldi as my main browser for 6 years now without any problems, and apart from that I also have Firefox and the Fifo Browser, for test uses and comparisons with another Chromium and a Gecko.
In the past I have used practically all browsers, even the most exotic ones, like Cent and some experimental ones with different engines. None have convinced me and I can only say that all of them, without exception, seem crappy compared to Vivaldi, where I don’t need to add tons of extensions, because it has them as its own functions, I can see several pages in mosaic, I have a calendar, feed and mail client, I can take notes with markdown and screenshots, have chats, Wikipedia or whatever I want in a side panel, for queries without leaving the page, alarm clock, translate web pages with a non-Google translator, create QR codes, key chain macros, mouse gestures and a long etc more, apart from being able to configure the aspect and the theme to the millimeter as I like, a own maill account and a Blog for own use for free. This does not offer any other.
But probably me and pretty much every tech publication on the net, even the Linux and FOSS ones are wrong and just Vivaldi fanboys.
None of the things you mention lack alternatives, or are incoherent, or are focused on privacy or security or anonymity (Tor Browser levels of fingerprinting protection). Vivaldi using Chromium as its base is a large problem, combined with the fact that it keeps some portion of code closed source.
Unlike you, I will not claim Vivaldi spies on its users with that 5% closed source code. It seems fine in that aspect. What is problematic is the said closed source code can have, or probably already contains security vulnerabilities that remain hidden from global community. And Vivaldi’s intentions can become evil any day, and people would be at their mercy. This is untrue for any fully open sourced browsers, especially Firefox.
I do not need to add a million extensions, just
uBlock Origin. For functionality, nothing saves webpages likeSingleFile, or bypasses website paywalls likeBypass Paywalls Clean. For the best dark mode, I can useDark Readerora light one likeDark Background and Light Text. Not sure where the million extensions came from.I can take screenshots too, but nothing works as good as saving webpages with SingleFile. For a notepad, I would prefer not using something in browser, instead any text editor that is separate and offline. For an alarm, I have something called alarm in phone. QR code feature is literally available everywhere at this point. And why would I use an email and blog from a non-independent browser maker, that probably outsources it to some random third party?
I see though, nothing will convince you since you are throwing around all this jargon at everyone, and then even claiming random copypasta tech blogs and perceived popularity is a sign of a good browser, when that could be applied to something as garbage as iPhone as well.
Yes, fingerprinting, the only extension I use is Trace, which cover this (not only fingerprintings), uBlock is fine, but I don’t need, because Vivaldi has a own ad and tracker blocker with the same filters and where you can add also more, if you want. I can save webpages, services and search engines as PWA with the context menu (customizable) Dark Reader is fine, but also not really needed in Vivaldi, it has Dark mode in flags and apart a menu with page actions, among these also an invert filter, also with the context menu over the search field I can add easy an search engine without the need to go to the setting page. You can consult your history, not only in a list, but in calendar view and statistics with graphics, EXIF and color data from images…
Well, it has a screenshot tool, part or the whole page which works fine and which I can safe in the note function, but for this I prefer to use a desktop app (Flameshot), with this I don’t need the browser when I need the tool for desktop screenshots. Yes, a note tool as desktop app is fine (I use Cherry Tree), but in the Browser I can select the text or content and save it as a note in the context menu in which also apears the url of the page and a screenshot, if I made one. No need to open something outsiide the browser.
But these things depends only for what and how you use the browser, if you only use it to browse in social net and for read the mails, every browser is valid. But when you use it for work, research or study, than it¡s easier to have split screen, web panel, two level tab stacking and other functions, where you don’t need third party soft or several windows, or changing from one tab to other, you have all in your screen at the same time, while you can chat in the web panel with others. That is the difference. Vivaldi is more an online OS than only a browser with the most inbuild tool which you may need, apart of the possibility to customize and tweak it to your like, even degoogle it in the settings, much more as in any other browser.
Trace is incapable of achieving what Tor Browser’s upstreamed functionality does, and Vivaldi’s builtin adblocker is not the same as uBlock Origin, that does a lot more things.
Vivaldi is trying to do the things that Opera used to do in its Presto days, more than a decade ago. Literally 2008 times. I was a more ardent user of Opera than you probably were, so I know what this is. It is like becoming excited at the browser being your little OS. But browsers at that time used to do these things because their main job (web browsing) did not need effort, and it was a time to do playful experiments.
Today, people want a web browser to be a lean, solid web browser with minimal extras, not a literal Emacs tier web browser. Maybe you are stuck in Emacs or Presto era Opera nostalgia days.
I’m quite old already, from times when the first computers still worked with punch cards that I saw the first time when he did military service. Naturally I know the old Opera, it was the first useful browser, until in the end it was sold and distorted by the Chinese. Vivaldi is a successor, pursuing the same original philosophy and I agree that it is not a browser for everyone, there will always be a browser for a certain advanced audience, professionals, students, researchers, etc., to which it really comes from pearls with its functionalities, but to use it only to read the mail, post on some social network, well it is something oversized, for this certainly serves any other browser, even the simplest, such as Min or Fifo, with search bar and little else. As I said, it depends on the needs of each one.
Regarding uBO, if it has some advanced functions, apart from an integration in the contextual menu, which the Vivaldi blocker (yet) does not have, although it also does its job well, since it also allows you to add the filters you want. No browser with and without an app can do what TOR does, but this is because it does not work like a normal browser, naturally protects against fingerprinting, but on the other hand lacks other protections and functions, it is good for browsing on the onion, but many got an unpleasant surprise to do it without before using a VPN and being completely exposed. Surfing the open web with TOR seems to me to be a bit desperate.
Trace does its job well by randomizing fingerprints and blocking other identification and tracking methods, cryptominers, header, CSS, pixel, fonts, etc. Although you have to look for a balanced configuration, since activating all the protections, prevents the operation of some pages, even when you add too many filters to the uBO or the Vivaldi blocker, which can also break some pages.
Quick question from an ignorant: why is closed-source bad?
Read the “FLOSS vs Closed Source” section from my guide https://lemmy.ml/post/511377
