That is, although proprietary soft, you can be 100% sure of what you are using.
This is a summation of all your arguments regarding Vivaldi. They can be safely put into the dustbin. If you had a sliver of idea about how closed and open code works, you would not be so ignorant in selling people this Vivaldi fandom. This is literally a classic example of tribalism, where people gather others to join them, so that they feel more comfortable.
Tribalism? No, Positive experience with a product that was confirmed a thousand and one times in all technical publications, including It’s FOSS and several publications and forums dedicated to Linux.
To mention not only the technical aspect, but also for the ethics of this cooperative focused on the user, whose needs and requests are voted on democratically and included in the updates.
I like OpenSource and I prefer it as much as possible, but you can’t always find valid FOSS alternatives for a product, you can’t always go around the world with this black and white vision. If it weren’t for proprietary products, which you still use, you wouldn’t even be able to post on this social network, because you didn’t have internet access. You can’t see some multimedia contents that require proprietary codecs and drivers, the same firmware of your PC sure isn’t FOSS either, do you use Startpage, DDG, Qwant to search?, because they are proprietary soft, others like SearX, MetaGer, Whoogle, are FOSS , but they have to use proprietary search engines, from which are they front-ends, because there isn’t a suitable FOSS search engine that works.
FOSS is certainly preferable in a Software or service, but just the categorical statement that FOSS = good and Proprietary = crap shows very little knowledge, .
What is good or bad is not related to whether it is FOSS or not, it depends on many other factors as well.
The reliability
Good maintenance
Good user support
Good practices regarding privacy and security
Good functionality
No big tech company (Vivaldi has a big name behind, Jon von Tetzchner, CEO of the old Opera, who founded with own money a small Icelandic cooperative, proprietary of its employees, no big tech company)
Above all, not to sell your data to third parties to earn money. as Firefox/Mozilla (FOSS) does (Alphabet.Inc and NEST, advertising companies of Google) or practices cryptomining with its use, such as Brave (FOSS) and worse practices in the past, not thrustworthy, whose new search engine, by the way, is also a proprietary service.
Above all, not to sell your data to third parties to earn money. as Firefox/Mozilla (FOSS) does (Alphabet.Inc and NEST, advertising companies of Google)
Why are you using lies and FUD about independent browsers to prop up Vivaldi?
I do agree, it depends on many factors, all of which make Firefox stand at the top among all browsers, especially Vivaldi, that has fans only due to UI (fully modifiable in Firefox unlike Vivaldi), and not fans of security, stability or privacy advocacy.
Proprietary is either crap, bloated or worthless besides a handful exceptions. Vivaldi just exists in the same way Maxthon does. It exists, but besides the proprietary UI, nobody knows why.
Each one uses the browser that convinces them and that best suits their needs. I have been using Vivaldi as my main browser for 6 years now without any problems, and apart from that I also have Firefox and the Fifo Browser, for test uses and comparisons with another Chromium and a Gecko.
In the past I have used practically all browsers, even the most exotic ones, like Cent and some experimental ones with different engines. None have convinced me and I can only say that all of them, without exception, seem crappy compared to Vivaldi, where I don’t need to add tons of extensions, because it has them as its own functions, I can see several pages in mosaic, I have a calendar, feed and mail client, I can take notes with markdown and screenshots, have chats, Wikipedia or whatever I want in a side panel, for queries without leaving the page, alarm clock, translate web pages with a non-Google translator, create QR codes, key chain macros, mouse gestures and a long etc more, apart from being able to configure the aspect and the theme to the millimeter as I like, a own maill account and a Blog for own use for free.
This does not offer any other.
But probably me and pretty much every tech publication on the net, even the Linux and FOSS ones are wrong and just Vivaldi fanboys.
None of the things you mention lack alternatives, or are incoherent, or are focused on privacy or security or anonymity (Tor Browser levels of fingerprinting protection). Vivaldi using Chromium as its base is a large problem, combined with the fact that it keeps some portion of code closed source.
Unlike you, I will not claim Vivaldi spies on its users with that 5% closed source code. It seems fine in that aspect. What is problematic is the said closed source code can have, or probably already contains security vulnerabilities that remain hidden from global community. And Vivaldi’s intentions can become evil any day, and people would be at their mercy. This is untrue for any fully open sourced browsers, especially Firefox.
I do not need to add a million extensions, just uBlock Origin. For functionality, nothing saves webpages like SingleFile, or bypasses website paywalls like Bypass Paywalls Clean. For the best dark mode, I can use Dark Readeror a light one like DarkBackgroundandLightText. Not sure where the million extensions came from.
I can take screenshots too, but nothing works as good as saving webpages with SingleFile. For a notepad, I would prefer not using something in browser, instead any text editor that is separate and offline. For an alarm, I have something called alarm in phone. QR code feature is literally available everywhere at this point. And why would I use an email and blog from a non-independent browser maker, that probably outsources it to some random third party?
I see though, nothing will convince you since you are throwing around all this jargon at everyone, and then even claiming random copypasta tech blogs and perceived popularity is a sign of a good browser, when that could be applied to something as garbage as iPhone as well.
Yes, fingerprinting, the only extension I use is Trace, which cover this (not only fingerprintings), uBlock is fine, but I don’t need, because Vivaldi has a own ad and tracker blocker with the same filters and where you can add also more, if you want. I can save webpages, services and search engines as PWA with the context menu (customizable) Dark Reader is fine, but also not really needed in Vivaldi, it has Dark mode in flags and apart a menu with page actions, among these also an invert filter, also with the context menu over the search field I can add easy an search engine without the need to go to the setting page. You can consult your history, not only in a list, but in calendar view and statistics with graphics, EXIF and color data from images…
Well, it has a screenshot tool, part or the whole page which works fine and which I can safe in the note function, but for this I prefer to use a desktop app (Flameshot), with this I don’t need the browser when I need the tool for desktop screenshots.
Yes, a note tool as desktop app is fine (I use Cherry Tree), but in the Browser I can select the text or content and save it as a note in the context menu in which also apears the url of the page and a screenshot, if I made one. No need to open something outsiide the browser.
But these things depends only for what and how you use the browser, if you only use it to browse in social net and for read the mails, every browser is valid. But when you use it for work, research or study, than it¡s easier to have split screen, web panel, two level tab stacking and other functions, where you don’t need third party soft or several windows, or changing from one tab to other, you have all in your screen at the same time, while you can chat in the web panel with others. That is the difference. Vivaldi is more an online OS than only a browser with the most inbuild tool which you may need, apart of the possibility to customize and tweak it to your like, even degoogle it in the settings, much more as in any other browser.
Trace is incapable of achieving what Tor Browser’s upstreamed functionality does, and Vivaldi’s builtin adblocker is not the same as uBlock Origin, that does a lot more things.
Vivaldi is trying to do the things that Opera used to do in its Presto days, more than a decade ago. Literally 2008 times. I was a more ardent user of Opera than you probably were, so I know what this is. It is like becoming excited at the browser being your little OS. But browsers at that time used to do these things because their main job (web browsing) did not need effort, and it was a time to do playful experiments.
Today, people want a web browser to be a lean, solid web browser with minimal extras, not a literal Emacs tier web browser. Maybe you are stuck in Emacs or Presto era Opera nostalgia days.
I’m quite old already, from times when the first computers still worked with punch cards that I saw the first time when he did military service.
Naturally I know the old Opera, it was the first useful browser, until in the end it was sold and distorted by the Chinese.
Vivaldi is a successor, pursuing the same original philosophy and I agree that it is not a browser for everyone, there will always be a browser for a certain advanced audience, professionals, students, researchers, etc., to which it really comes from pearls with its functionalities, but to use it only to read the mail, post on some social network, well it is something oversized, for this certainly serves any other browser, even the simplest, such as Min or Fifo, with search bar and little else.
As I said, it depends on the needs of each one.
Regarding uBO, if it has some advanced functions, apart from an integration in the contextual menu, which the Vivaldi blocker (yet) does not have, although it also does its job well, since it also allows you to add the filters you want.
No browser with and without an app can do what TOR does, but this is because it does not work like a normal browser, naturally protects against fingerprinting, but on the other hand lacks other protections and functions, it is good for browsing on the onion, but many got an unpleasant surprise to do it without before using a VPN and being completely exposed. Surfing the open web with TOR seems to me to be a bit desperate.
Trace does its job well by randomizing fingerprints and blocking other identification and tracking methods, cryptominers, header, CSS, pixel, fonts, etc. Although you have to look for a balanced configuration, since activating all the protections, prevents the operation of some pages, even when you add too many filters to the uBO or the Vivaldi blocker, which can also break some pages.
Naturally I know the old Opera, it was the first useful browser, until in the end it was sold and distorted by the Chinese
Incorrect. Opera’s free proxy VPN is the only “Chinese” thing about it, which you can opt to not use. And if you are already comfortable with any USA services and server connections, I do not see a problem with that free Chinese proxy either. I doubt Opera using Chromium as base, like Vivaldi, is Chinese. And I prefer no country, but I would hypothetically prefer China over USA for services, since one of them actively uses collected data in their military drones to kill civilians, according to former CIA director Michael Hayden.
How to geek article from 2017
It sounds like a lot of people got caught either practicing opsec badly, or having bad opsec in the first place. None of this has to do with Tor being a bad tool. It does not lack protections, if it is the user making mistakes.
it is good for browsing on the onion, but many got an unpleasant surprise to do it without before using a VPN and being completely exposed. Surfing the open web with TOR seems to me to be a bit desperate.
Using Tor with VPN is a common misinformation lore debunked enough times. If you mean people using Tor do not understand what or how to use Tor, then it is not the fault of Tor, once again. It is the fault of user not understanding the seriousness needed to use Tor, because it is not Snapchat.
From a comment of yours here:
This is a summation of all your arguments regarding Vivaldi. They can be safely put into the dustbin. If you had a sliver of idea about how closed and open code works, you would not be so ignorant in selling people this Vivaldi fandom. This is literally a classic example of tribalism, where people gather others to join them, so that they feel more comfortable.
Tribalism? No, Positive experience with a product that was confirmed a thousand and one times in all technical publications, including It’s FOSS and several publications and forums dedicated to Linux. To mention not only the technical aspect, but also for the ethics of this cooperative focused on the user, whose needs and requests are voted on democratically and included in the updates.
I like OpenSource and I prefer it as much as possible, but you can’t always find valid FOSS alternatives for a product, you can’t always go around the world with this black and white vision. If it weren’t for proprietary products, which you still use, you wouldn’t even be able to post on this social network, because you didn’t have internet access. You can’t see some multimedia contents that require proprietary codecs and drivers, the same firmware of your PC sure isn’t FOSS either, do you use Startpage, DDG, Qwant to search?, because they are proprietary soft, others like SearX, MetaGer, Whoogle, are FOSS , but they have to use proprietary search engines, from which are they front-ends, because there isn’t a suitable FOSS search engine that works. FOSS is certainly preferable in a Software or service, but just the categorical statement that FOSS = good and Proprietary = crap shows very little knowledge, .
What is good or bad is not related to whether it is FOSS or not, it depends on many other factors as well.
Why are you using lies and FUD about independent browsers to prop up Vivaldi?
I do agree, it depends on many factors, all of which make Firefox stand at the top among all browsers, especially Vivaldi, that has fans only due to UI (fully modifiable in Firefox unlike Vivaldi), and not fans of security, stability or privacy advocacy.
Proprietary is either crap, bloated or worthless besides a handful exceptions. Vivaldi just exists in the same way Maxthon does. It exists, but besides the proprietary UI, nobody knows why.
Each one uses the browser that convinces them and that best suits their needs. I have been using Vivaldi as my main browser for 6 years now without any problems, and apart from that I also have Firefox and the Fifo Browser, for test uses and comparisons with another Chromium and a Gecko.
In the past I have used practically all browsers, even the most exotic ones, like Cent and some experimental ones with different engines. None have convinced me and I can only say that all of them, without exception, seem crappy compared to Vivaldi, where I don’t need to add tons of extensions, because it has them as its own functions, I can see several pages in mosaic, I have a calendar, feed and mail client, I can take notes with markdown and screenshots, have chats, Wikipedia or whatever I want in a side panel, for queries without leaving the page, alarm clock, translate web pages with a non-Google translator, create QR codes, key chain macros, mouse gestures and a long etc more, apart from being able to configure the aspect and the theme to the millimeter as I like, a own maill account and a Blog for own use for free. This does not offer any other.
But probably me and pretty much every tech publication on the net, even the Linux and FOSS ones are wrong and just Vivaldi fanboys.
None of the things you mention lack alternatives, or are incoherent, or are focused on privacy or security or anonymity (Tor Browser levels of fingerprinting protection). Vivaldi using Chromium as its base is a large problem, combined with the fact that it keeps some portion of code closed source.
Unlike you, I will not claim Vivaldi spies on its users with that 5% closed source code. It seems fine in that aspect. What is problematic is the said closed source code can have, or probably already contains security vulnerabilities that remain hidden from global community. And Vivaldi’s intentions can become evil any day, and people would be at their mercy. This is untrue for any fully open sourced browsers, especially Firefox.
I do not need to add a million extensions, just
uBlock Origin. For functionality, nothing saves webpages likeSingleFile, or bypasses website paywalls likeBypass Paywalls Clean. For the best dark mode, I can useDark Readerora light one likeDark Background and Light Text. Not sure where the million extensions came from.I can take screenshots too, but nothing works as good as saving webpages with SingleFile. For a notepad, I would prefer not using something in browser, instead any text editor that is separate and offline. For an alarm, I have something called alarm in phone. QR code feature is literally available everywhere at this point. And why would I use an email and blog from a non-independent browser maker, that probably outsources it to some random third party?
I see though, nothing will convince you since you are throwing around all this jargon at everyone, and then even claiming random copypasta tech blogs and perceived popularity is a sign of a good browser, when that could be applied to something as garbage as iPhone as well.
Yes, fingerprinting, the only extension I use is Trace, which cover this (not only fingerprintings), uBlock is fine, but I don’t need, because Vivaldi has a own ad and tracker blocker with the same filters and where you can add also more, if you want. I can save webpages, services and search engines as PWA with the context menu (customizable) Dark Reader is fine, but also not really needed in Vivaldi, it has Dark mode in flags and apart a menu with page actions, among these also an invert filter, also with the context menu over the search field I can add easy an search engine without the need to go to the setting page. You can consult your history, not only in a list, but in calendar view and statistics with graphics, EXIF and color data from images…
Well, it has a screenshot tool, part or the whole page which works fine and which I can safe in the note function, but for this I prefer to use a desktop app (Flameshot), with this I don’t need the browser when I need the tool for desktop screenshots. Yes, a note tool as desktop app is fine (I use Cherry Tree), but in the Browser I can select the text or content and save it as a note in the context menu in which also apears the url of the page and a screenshot, if I made one. No need to open something outsiide the browser.
But these things depends only for what and how you use the browser, if you only use it to browse in social net and for read the mails, every browser is valid. But when you use it for work, research or study, than it¡s easier to have split screen, web panel, two level tab stacking and other functions, where you don’t need third party soft or several windows, or changing from one tab to other, you have all in your screen at the same time, while you can chat in the web panel with others. That is the difference. Vivaldi is more an online OS than only a browser with the most inbuild tool which you may need, apart of the possibility to customize and tweak it to your like, even degoogle it in the settings, much more as in any other browser.
Trace is incapable of achieving what Tor Browser’s upstreamed functionality does, and Vivaldi’s builtin adblocker is not the same as uBlock Origin, that does a lot more things.
Vivaldi is trying to do the things that Opera used to do in its Presto days, more than a decade ago. Literally 2008 times. I was a more ardent user of Opera than you probably were, so I know what this is. It is like becoming excited at the browser being your little OS. But browsers at that time used to do these things because their main job (web browsing) did not need effort, and it was a time to do playful experiments.
Today, people want a web browser to be a lean, solid web browser with minimal extras, not a literal Emacs tier web browser. Maybe you are stuck in Emacs or Presto era Opera nostalgia days.
I’m quite old already, from times when the first computers still worked with punch cards that I saw the first time when he did military service. Naturally I know the old Opera, it was the first useful browser, until in the end it was sold and distorted by the Chinese. Vivaldi is a successor, pursuing the same original philosophy and I agree that it is not a browser for everyone, there will always be a browser for a certain advanced audience, professionals, students, researchers, etc., to which it really comes from pearls with its functionalities, but to use it only to read the mail, post on some social network, well it is something oversized, for this certainly serves any other browser, even the simplest, such as Min or Fifo, with search bar and little else. As I said, it depends on the needs of each one.
Regarding uBO, if it has some advanced functions, apart from an integration in the contextual menu, which the Vivaldi blocker (yet) does not have, although it also does its job well, since it also allows you to add the filters you want. No browser with and without an app can do what TOR does, but this is because it does not work like a normal browser, naturally protects against fingerprinting, but on the other hand lacks other protections and functions, it is good for browsing on the onion, but many got an unpleasant surprise to do it without before using a VPN and being completely exposed. Surfing the open web with TOR seems to me to be a bit desperate.
Trace does its job well by randomizing fingerprints and blocking other identification and tracking methods, cryptominers, header, CSS, pixel, fonts, etc. Although you have to look for a balanced configuration, since activating all the protections, prevents the operation of some pages, even when you add too many filters to the uBO or the Vivaldi blocker, which can also break some pages.
Incorrect. Opera’s free proxy VPN is the only “Chinese” thing about it, which you can opt to not use. And if you are already comfortable with any USA services and server connections, I do not see a problem with that free Chinese proxy either. I doubt Opera using Chromium as base, like Vivaldi, is Chinese. And I prefer no country, but I would hypothetically prefer China over USA for services, since one of them actively uses collected data in their military drones to kill civilians, according to former CIA director Michael Hayden.
It sounds like a lot of people got caught either practicing opsec badly, or having bad opsec in the first place. None of this has to do with Tor being a bad tool. It does not lack protections, if it is the user making mistakes.
Using Tor with VPN is a common misinformation lore debunked enough times. If you mean people using Tor do not understand what or how to use Tor, then it is not the fault of Tor, once again. It is the fault of user not understanding the seriousness needed to use Tor, because it is not Snapchat.
Quick question from an ignorant: why is closed-source bad?
Read the “FLOSS vs Closed Source” section from my guide https://lemmy.ml/post/511377