Why is there such an obsession with immigration?
Do you want to pick strawberries? It’s back-breaking and sucks.
E: thanks for all the replies. I wrote this while pissed about the results, it was supposed to be rhetorical.
At this point, work on helping immigrant friends and neighbors however you can, whether by helping with immigration paperwork or "other"methodologies.
If you need a scapegoat, you pick one that can’t defend itself as easy.
Sure, the unborn work for that too.
I just wonder what is so scary about immigrants to people?
Being different is scary enough for those that lack education (either willingly or due to circumstances out of their control)
This is America, and they aren’t white. They don’t speak white.
Well they’re all lazy criminal welfare queens who are also taking all of our jobs somehow, don’t you read the right wing propag- I mean, news?
They’re different, even if they’re very similar. The important part is that they look different, too, because if you talked about all the white immigrants taking the white-collar jobs people would have to actually think beyond just a face-value assessment. Brown is bad is a lot easier than person over there could be anything so I need to talk to them and form even a basic relationship with them to figure out what’s going on and by then I might not be able to hate them so absolutely.
Pretty weird that this tactic still works. It really shows how uneducated the masses are, and they’re about to become even less educated.
This is by design.
The obsession is because that’s the news friendly way of answering with “racism”.
This was what the UK discovered after Brexit
Turns out, if you kick out all the polish nurses and restaurant workers, you suddenly don’t have enough staff in those places. Who would have thought.
Other than that, everything worked out perfectly. Oh, but then there’s also the Northern Ireland border. Well other than those two issues… actually, there are quite a few issues, but that’s besides the point. It’s been smooth sailing ever since, everyone is happy, it’s never been better.
I wanted to say “You dropped this: /s”
But then I realised the British only need a tone marker when they’re not being sarcastic.
Thinking back to the one debate he had with Harris, Trump blathered nonstop about immigration. He talks about it like a wave of moorish invaders sweeping across the land, pillaging. This is obviously a powerful Image if you can get people to believe it. And in some areas people have been feeling like American culture is giving way to Mexican culture as the population in their home towns shifts, so Trump’s rhetoric taps into something that was already there. And if we’re honest, border policy is a weird zone where many of the laws don’t make intuitive sense. America talks out of both sides of its mouth on the issue, historically. A lot of people are here illegally whom we depend on utterly to staff our economy. So their presence is in some way sanctioned, tolerated, but not fully legitimized in law. When someone comes along and articulates one clear direction on immigration, it sounds like someone is speaking clearly for the first time. Even if that direction is stupid, hateful, xenophobic, and economically unviable.
I hear what you’re saying. What boring people to be afraid of novel cultures.
Anyway, fine, close the border and make it so only US citizens can do all the labor nobody wants to do. Watch how much doesn’t get done; the economics behind work and such don’t change rapidly. I’ll bet most small farmers get destroyed with fields full of rotting, previously ready to harvest crops because nobody can offer a citizen enough to do the work, in a way that still yields a profit.
The billionaires with factory farms and prison labor will likely win out again.
And the price of groceries will skyrocket 3x and everyone will say “I can’t believe Biden could do this to me”
I mean mush actually telegraphed that, “there will be some economic pain”…
They’re convenient scapegoats that can’t defend themselves. “Look, it’s a witch! Burn it”
Never liked that argument. It’s essentially “Why, don’t you like immigration, dummy? Don’t you know immigrants are easily exploited to do hard labour cheaply?”
I’m not saying it isn’t true, especially in the west, but in my eyes, there are much more moral arguments for immigration.
Conservatives don’t care about that sort of morals. They only care about what affects them directly. Maybe that means they can’t find tomatoes or apples one day. Then they’ll blame some Democrat for the problem.
I agree that it’s low-hanging… nope. Bailing on that one.
I do think quality farm work is critical for our health as a nation, and I don’t mean economically.
Can we automate it? Maybe. Till then, someone’s gotta do it, and for those who go into it, there’s gotta be a floor on job quality, seemingly basic things like bathroom and water breaks.
Race stuff gets clicks and views
No, I don’t think you understand it fully. That’s what the legal minorities and children are for. Ask rural folk over 60 if they had a job as a child and you’ll got a Lt of answers like “I worked picking tomatoes when I was 10.”
The rich get to go to private school, the poor get to sell their children off to robber barons. You would not believe how many parents out there are eager for this too. A good portion of the GOP are abusers that dont really care about their children and if they can force their children to go out and get a job so they can take their paychecks, they will.
That’s why they are pro-birth and anti-education. This is why we still dont have year-round schooling because “traditionalists” want to be able to make use of child labor.
If you dont think it is coming, almost every red state has attemptdd to repeal their states child labor laws for agricultural and factory work.
I admittedly can’t imagine people wanting such a thing. They really are of a different fabric it seems, hurt people hurting people. I guess all the rest of us can do is support letting people know there’s another option and helping them escape that trap if desired.
They don’t want to live like us, fostering the mind over breaking down the body. So be it, I guess.
Why? Because the right was harping on it. So the news covers it. And then “people are talking about it.” And in 2024, that means everyone has to have an opinion it. The right has perfected the weaponization of communication. Fascists are good at that, historically.
Here comes the Democrats again. Complaining that their slaves are being taken away.
That was Florida in recent history, not the dems. “uhh can you latinos come back and work for us again?? no one is filling these jobs as you leave due to the recent legislative hatefest”
Conservatives don’t realize they have slaves, let alone rely on them. They pound the table about migrants while paying someone employing them to mow their lawn or renovate their house. Press them about it and they always tell you it’s none of their business how the people they contract keep the prices down.
This sounds a bit anecdotal or even hyperbolic (maybe not the Florida bit, I don’t know I don’t live there so I don’t know what’s going on there).
…pound the table about migrants…
Why is it so impossible for this side of the argument to understand that the issue is with illegal migrants taking advantage of the system? You all go so far as to say things like “there is no such thing as an illegal immigrant!”
Yes. Yes there is. By legal definition there is! And as the son of a legal immigrant, someone who has been directly involved with this system, I absolutely do take issue with this country opening the flood gates to allow skirting of the system. As do MOST legal immigrants as was shown by this election!
I was referring to illegal migrants, so your rebuttal is a bit of a straw man. This was a reference to the legislation pushed by DeSantis and the republican legislature of Florida that was targeted at undocumented workers. If you don’t understand the connection between Florida and migrant workers in the context of the past two years, I think it’s fairly safe to say that you aren’t following this issue at a national level beyond a drip feed of Fox News or similar.
The point is that most Americans are too obtuse and/or callous to recognize the role of undocumented workers in their own economy. You were fast to say the dems see them as slaves, but the entire goddamn economy uses them for cheap labor. My mother is as wound up about border crossings and caravans as it gets but still pays someone to have Hispanic men who can’t understand her mowing her lawn. They’re not “her” undocumented workers.
Removed by mod
Apparently I can’t curse at you & your low energy understanding of the world, last comment removed.
I stand by what I said before, I believe all workers should be paid fairly, have access to things like bathrooms & water, and be able to easily come and go as they need & desire.
Try getting better nutrition, it’ll help with your energy problem.
As I mentioned below. I know more about this issue first hand and gone through more than you probably ever will in your life.
Low energy. Son, you would have crumbled if you had to grow up the way I did.
Fuckin’ glad I’m not your son, my dad was a real man who actually put the work in to help me become a caring and effective man, not watch me founder and mentally shrivel.
I mean look at your comment. No shame, in spite of the supposed first hand experience. I feel for you, and for this country we both call home. Your crops, or your neighbors crops, may very well rot in the field while ripe, until the factory farm decides nearby decided to pay pennies on the dollar and take your land from you.
All legal, all what we progressives didn’t want. You’ll understand after 4 years of further hardship in your community. Competition and a free market are good, if they are fair.
Typical. Don’t care about the actual struggles of us “brown people”. “Just shut up and be my prop! I’ve got a political statement to make!”
Sorry your slaves are being taken from you.
Missing the point, dumb.
We need food, the jobs were available and I want people doing the work to have rights too. I don’t want to pick strawberries. I will gladly pay someone to get some for me, if the price is right.
Are you a “brown person”? I guess I am as well.
I think we have to accept that the American electorate actually wants fascism.
It’s more that Harris did such a terrible job that even the other side being literal Hitler didn’t save her.
Bro, in don’t care how bad Harris is/was. If you prefer trump to her, it’s on you.
As always, mathematically not voting is equivalent to voting for the winner, since it’s a vote that didn’t change the result. So yeah. The above statement rings true.
As easy as it is to blame voters, the American electorate didn’t want fascism. That’s just false. Harris dug her own grave by actively discouraging voters who didn’t want fascism. This electorate is the same one that elected Biden in 2020 and (mostly) the same one that elected Obama in 2008 and 2012. They just wanted a real candidate and Harris wasn’t that.
Let’s give them leftist fascism and see how they react.
They elected the candidate backed by Russia, which is still the shining beacon of a global superpower for the Tankies out there. So I guess Trump is a perfectly fine representative of fascism, left or right.
Leftist fascism is called communism.
Leftist fascism is called fascism, because the term leftist doesn’t actually mean anything but fascism and communism do.
I love how Economy is a high priority, yet they voted for the asshole known being the genius behind several bankruptcies. “The economy isn’t doing good, clearly we need someone who can fuck shit up to make it work!”
Unironically, I think that was the thought process.
Hard to vote for someone who is telling you all is well and the people that got the country here are competent and mean well, when the country is going through 5 different crises, all preventing you from living a decent life.
Exactly. Harris was tasked with defending and indefensible record. It’s that simple.
She didn’t have to defend it. This was an election to run over Biden until he was just a pile of goo. She could have came out with some strong contrasting policies, instead she gave some great sound bytes for Trump.
The American electorate:
Economy? Ah yes, let’s elect the person that wants to put 100% sanctions on literally everything. Masterful gambit sirs. Ya’ll can rot in hell!
Also side note, America’s economy is held up by cheap immigrant labor, so way to double dunk.
The news says the Republicans are better at [the economy] because they are. How are they better. Because they are better for the economy. Who crashed the economy the last four times it’s happened Republicans. They’re so good at economy!
They’re never around for the rebound though. They leave the Democrats to pick up the pieces and the stupid fucks that voted for trump only see that gas was cheaper 5 years ago, so that must mean that trump’s economy was better!
Remember when gas was cheap because the entire country ground to a halt due to Trump mismanaging COVID? Those sure were the days…
Yeah, let’s not overreact today. It’s not like we were all sequestered in our homes while riots raged across the country and ash fell from the blood red sky because of out of control forest fires. Oh wait, that’s exactly what it was like!
Economy
This is Trump’s economy, you idiots. This is the fallout from his incompetence and malice. But heaven forbid voters understand basic principles which rule their lives.
i think you give too much credit to Trump. the economy has been rigged against the working class for a long time. it’s just getting progressively more brutal which makes people feel increasingly insecure.
an insecure working class elects strongmen who promise simple solutions
The best, simplest summation I’ve seen. Thank you. I’ve been searching for something to make sense of it and this is definitely it. Being forced into voting for the “least worst” candidate obscures where that path is headed by either candidate.
It’s the pattern in American politics that has existed since I was born: Republicans fuck the economy, Democrats do their best to fix it, people blame the Democrats for the bad economy and elect Republicans who fuck it up even more.
No, sorry, but you don’t get to say that four years later.
The economy got trashed in his last year… but remember how the sparse economic relief that were carried through the democratic congress got completely wiped out as soon as Biden took office? When the democrats took away the child tax credit childhood poverty doubled overnight. And you may say the cause of the inflation was Trump’s mismanagement (And it wasn’t. The supply chain breakdown would have happened no matter who was in office.) what was the democratic response? Fucking Chicago school.
What’s happening is the US empire is not so slowly rotting and material conditions are deteriorating. That’s independent of what party is in power. But both parties are wedded to capital. And voters are hopping from one foot to the other while standing on that hot skillet trying to find relief. You’re not going to find it without overthrowing capitalism. This is the barbarism we were warning you about.
And it wasn’t. The supply chain breakdown would have happened no matter who was in office
if i remember correctly, COVID brought our inflation up to roughly 6%. then the Ukrainian war took it the rest of way where it peaked near 9% (over 10% in my home state)
these things would have happened anyway, although choosing to prolong the Ukrainian war as long as possible most definitely increased inflation. people think we only gave 2 or 3 hundred billion, but realistically the American public has paid more than a trillion in the invisible tax that is inflation. hundreds of thousands of layoffs because of higher interest rates are also connected to this
Let’s not forget that a large part of the inflation, and especially on food and housing, was driven by pure greed and opportunism from the capitalists that control those basic necessities. And that’s something that could have been prevented with tools that capital permitted under Ronald Fucking Reagan.
it’s an eternal battle. every once in a while we pass legislation to try and reign in corporate power. like for example the anti trust act in the early 1900s
the issue is that public attention is temporary. eventually we move on to the next crisis and people forget. grow complacent.
corporate interest, however, is eternal. it’s persistent and never gives up. it keeps pushing, infallibly, in order to weaken the structures meant to reign in their power. whether by legislation/policy (AT&T and friends unilaterally killing Net Neutrality some years back, Disney signing into law expansion of copyright, etc) or through more subtle methods (buying politicians and getting people into positions of power that have no intention of enforcing the laws)
this is inevitably what happens with every democracy. eventually the vigilance fails and the structures of power are hijacked by opportunists.
although having said all that, I don’t think greed had much to do with the inflation we saw. Sure, some companies took advantage and raised prices more than they needed to just to inflate that extra juicy profit margin.
but realistically we’re headed to war and war means massive government spending which means inflation
You’re separating government from the capitalists and I don’t think that’s an accurate way of looking at the world. Capital will eat itself even more voraciously than it does right now without some mediating force on itself. Government isn’t a hedge against capitalism that mediates its excesses. It is a PART of capitalism that mediates its excesses. The anti-trust act wasn’t for us; it was for them.
But the reality that capitalism is a fundamentally unstable system can’t be fixed by blunting it. And as the rate of profit goes down, the very restraints that capital put on itself to ensure its survival must be destroyed in pursuit of that profit.
i think most legislation is explicitly for the capitalist class. that much we probably agree with
but i do think every once in a while, when there is a ton of pressure and the elites are scared, they throw a bone to the working class.
it happened with the antitrust act, it happened with the New Deal, and it happened in the 1960s with the Civil Rights era and the end to Vietnam
yes, capitalism will eat itself. it’s what we’re essentially seeing right now in slow motion. but there is something there in democracy beyond just capitalism. even if it’s buried deep down and impotent
it happened with the antitrust act, it happened with the New Deal, and it happened in the 1960s with the Civil Rights era and the end to Vietnam
The thing that ties all of these exceptions together is the immediate threat of ideologically organized revolutionary cadres mobilizing the masses into a socialist revolution
Worse: Congress purposely intended for the president to not have direct control over the economy.
Right, but the administration’s actions typically get attributed to the president, plus the president does have a measure of control through executive orders, or proposals which get carried through the house and Senate. The president will obviously sign any initiative that they themselves proposed.
Racism less important, immigration more important… that’s interesting…
Blame the news media. They sane washed Trump.
Nah they wouldn’t shut up about him til the point it got numb. Maybe they should have focused on Kamala instead.
Another thing that’s barely on the chart: Foreign Policy, some fraction of which would be the genocide.
It just wasn’t the influential issue that much of Lemmy wished it were, and clearly not the reason Harris lost.
Exactly. For all the talk of the Palestine/Israel genocide being a reason people didn’t vote Harris, this poll certainly makes it seem like less of the issue. What the fuck happened? I’m genuinely ashamed to live in the States.
What the fuck happened?
Four years of a milquetoast, centrist Democrat telling the American people what they’re living isn’t the actual reality of the situation. Biden’s admin kept rolling out the “soft landing, economy is doing great,” schtick despite numerous news outlets reporting Americans don’t feel like it’s an economy working for them.
Then that Democrat finally stepping aside, too late for his constituents to have a say in who they want representing them. And then she ran on a centrist, return-to-the-status-quo platform that didn’t inspire the majority of Americans, who are so apathetic based on decades of being ignored by politicians they just don’t vote. Because what’s the point?
Remember that people who considered foreign policy (aka Gaza) to be the most important didn’t vote. People who voted Harris did so because they either thought some other issue was more important or just didn’t care. I think you’ll get better insights from a “why didn’t you vote” survey. That said it’s definitely not the only reason Harris lost; it was her complete and utter failure at campaigning that allowed Trump to go around collecting swing states like they’re fucking MTG cards.
People who voted Harris did so because they either thought some other issue was more important or just didn’t care.
Or realized that Trump would be far worse for the Palestinians than any Democrat has ever been.
Worse maybe, but not for worse. That said that’s not really what I’m trying to say; my point is that people whose number one issue was Palestine overwhelmingly didn’t vote. Democrats went to vote despite Biden/Harris’s Israel policy, meaning they considered something else to be more important and so they wouldn’t answer this poll with “foreign policy”.
People keep saying this, but misunderstand why people didn’t vote for Harris over Gaza.
It doesn’t matter if Trump is worse. People don’t want the Democrats to think this behavior is OK.
Foreign policy isn’t important to the workers, doing political work in my local area people will sooner talk about the dog shit sproon around theyre street or litter, the closure of public toilets or the removal of public bins as they all have a noticeable and tangible effect on day to day life. Sadly Gaza isn’t a broad issue to none gazans. I’m not advocating for this behaviour btw, just pointing out what I’ve noticed and spoken about in political circles.
99.9% of US voters wouldn’t even be there if it wasn’t for genocide
It’s simple, and history has borne this out many many times.
In a bad economy, no one cares about your politics if you’re the candidate of change. There’s a reason why Harris spent two months repeating memes instead of defending Biden’s policies, because it’s impossible to defend the fact that you had four years to rule and there are more people working 2-3 jobs just to survive.
They knew they needed to appeal to workers. Instead, they spent most of the campaign repeating this meaningless platitude about joy to people who are being worked to death.
In a bad economy, no one cares about your politics
That’s no excuse for electing someone whose stated policies and politics will fuck the economy even further and faster.
Sure it is, if you don’t understand economics, which few Merkins do. The evidence is right in front of us.
Also, there were plenty of people who were never going to vote for a woman, no matter what.
I’m sure that’s true too, but that’s not the reason she lost, and Democrats will continue to stack losses if that’s the narrative that they go with.
Democrats haven’t been ceding male voters to Republicans for 16 years because they hate women. It’s because, in the liberal and activist communities, it’s become customary and accepted to treat men like shit.
It’s because, in the liberal and activist communities, it’s become customary and accepted to treat men like shit.
this is just as dumb as the opposite “they didn’t vote for Kamala because she’s a woman”
people don’t like Kamala because she’s an extension of Joe Biden and Biden has been a failure. that’s why she lost. she offered status quo when people want change. the DNC is incapable of changing quick enough to avoid fascism
Democrats will continue to stack losses if that’s the narrative that they go with
$20 says that or race is the narrative they go with.
I wouldn’t be surprised.
Plenty of people will also never vote for a black man, but that worked spectacularly for the Democrats the first time.
Don’t forget immigrants who hate immigrants.
Then maybe don’t force a woman onto the ballot in “the most important election of our lifetime”. I’m all for progress, but you don’t win elections by forcing ideals upon people who won’t have them, and if this was truly the most important election of our lifetime, then the Democrats should have fielded their most appealing candidate.
Yeah if the DNC really gave as much credence to the vote power of racism and misogyny as they do when complaining about election losses, then why would they deliberately step on that landmine by selecting kamala only 8 years after HRC? It’s not like we think idealistic dreamers run the DNC right? That’s silly.
Why did Dems lose the Senate? Keep the house? Cuz its more than just Harris here… What we’re seeing is voter repudiation of the last 4 years.
If that’s why Kamala lost, then explain why Tammy Baldwin is winning Wisconsin and Elissa Slotkin is winning in Michigan.
Healthcare: 8%
That explains why americans in America are provided with less(no at all) healthcare than american tourisis in fucking Russia.
This is what happens if any foreigner for example breaks bone in Russia:
- Emergency, including emergency specialized, medical care is provided to foreign citizens in case of sickness, accident, trauma, poisining and other cases requireing emergency treatment. Such medical treatment provided by state and municipal healthcare organizations is free of charge.
Specifically, state and municipal? Is there some other form of healthcare organization that can provide medical treatment?
Private clinics exist
You don’t win an election just with vibes.
Kamala didn’t bring as much substance as what the left electorate was expecting from her, and couldn’t differentiate herself from Biden and the current term she is serving under. The whole democratic party went under because all they promise is vibes compared the current economical struggles people are facing.
The truth is the dems are a right wing party now, they’ve been dragged there by the rethugs… and people Want to vote for an Actual left wing party, but there literally isnt one in the US.
The dems were never left wing in international standards. otherwise you would already have had universal health care.
The poison of the “big tent”. Move a little over to let people in enough and you are no longer representing anyone in a desperate attempt to represent everyone.
I don’t think people want to vote for a party. People want to vote for someone who’s making sense for them, and looks like for majority it was Trump this time.
An “actual left wing party” must not only have ideology, but a sound plan on how to improve people’s lives and an ability to communicate this plan to people, loud and clear. Actually, as populists are now trusted everywhere in the world, the plan is less important than communication
trumps ‘road to prosperity’ is tariffs… which will lead to a depression, maybe a global one. Thats a helluva plan there
I didn’t read that as OP saying they believed that will work, I read it as saying the majority of Americans (or at least the majority of Americans who bothered voting) believed that.
I think its worth pointing out here that trump ‘tariffs’ are a great way to extort other counties, they’ll all pay that extortion fee directly to donald trump to avoid the tariffs. He will leave the white house a trillionaire in 4 years and nothing can stop it.
I was onboard with her but I honestly felt icky every time the Biden administration released a new statement about how good the economy is. How out of touch do you have to be to think the economy is good? Republicans have no intention of fixing that but at least they’re smart enough to see that people feel crushed in this economy and pander to it. And apparently that was a much bigger issue than abortion, which shocked me at first but as it settles I see that my fear as a woman pales in comparison to America’s fear of a woman and America’s struggling financial situation.
How out of touch do you have to be to think the economy is good?
Liberals measure the health of the economy by Gross Domestic Product (which has been going up), and Consumer Price Index (which includes big-screen TVs). You’d have to dismantle everything they paid to learn in college econ.
“It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”
Immigration is such a horseshit issue. Why are people dumb enough to fall for this shit?
Immigration will be “solved” come January, but not because Trump will actually do anything about it, but he’ll just say the problem is solved and then stop talking about it.
It will be solved because nobody with any intelligence will actually pick the USA over any of the other countries that offer asylum after January
Thank you, Knee Tits.
very welcome! Its worth nothing Im not very good at percentages…
Because too many people are selfish and think that things are bad so might as well make them worse.
