That’s why he’s nothing more than vatnik kompromat.
Translation: He wants Russia to win the War and for America to be signed over to the Kremlin, but he knows he can’t say that aloud
…i don’t think he wants anything other than to keep uncle vlad at bay…
Forgot the context of what you were responding to when I saw it in my list of replies I’ve recieved, so I thought for a second that someone was trying to fight Dracula… and I’m like “Them Belmonts are at it again aren’t they? Didn’t think Drac was gonna be back for another 11 years”
Removed by mod
It’s a bit of a stretch to say I’m pro-Russian, and why would I care what Trump says or thinks? He’s a clown who bullshits and contradicts himself all the time.
support for Russia (not Putin, as historical materialists don’t subscribe to great man theory) is only a partial, temporary, tactical one, in the context of imperialist liberation.
So you’re pro-Russian in the temporary, tactical sense, in the context of imperialist liberation. And you would be pro-Putin too, but for not believing in great man theory.
So you’re NOT pro-Russian? Yes or no?
How is it that you seem to be having a lot of trouble answering anything even vaguely criticizing Russia?
Do you think Russia broke international law with an illegal invasion of Ukraine, which is prohibited, as it’s a war of aggression? Yes or no?
(First off, a gentle reminder that you chose to answer, when you could’ve simply ignored my comment on this post. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
You can’t answer, because you support Russia.
Remember when you said there’s “zero chance of Russian propaganda” on Lemmy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_propaganda_in_the_Russian_Federation
The propaganda of the Russian Federation promotes views, perceptions or agendas of the government. The media include state-run outlets and online technologies,[1][2] and may involve using “Soviet-style ‘active measures’ as an element of modern Russian ‘political warfare’”.[3] Notably, contemporary Russian propaganda promotes the cult of personality of Vladimir Putin and positive views of Soviet history.[4] Russia has established a number of organizations, such as the Presidential Commission of the Russian Federation to Counter Attempts to Falsify History to the Detriment of Russia’s Interests, the Russian web brigades, and others that engage in political propaganda to promote the views of the Russian government.
Remember — like we’ve discussed previously — that to perpetuate a state’s propaganda, you don’t actually have to be on their payroll, or even cognisant of perpetuating it. However, you very much seem to be. Because you’re making the conscious choice to do everything in your power to avoid the question “are you pro-Russian?”
You simply can not answer a simple yes or no question. Just like Trump, when asked about Ukraine.
This tells everyone all they need to know about you. That you don’t think Russia broke international law by invading Ukraine. You can’t even deny it, because you delude yourself like Trump, that as long as you don’t straight up say “no”, people can’t infer your answer from the context.
You’re on the Russian side of the Russo-Ukrainian conflict. You do not think Russia broke international law by invading Ukraine. If you did, you’d be able to say so.
Remember when you kept threatening me that you’re gonna ban me off of a whole instance because I downvoted a comment of yours?
That’s not it works. Vegetarians aren’t following in Hitler’s footsteps. If two people were to have similar stances on something, they didn’t necessarily come to it in the same way, or one from the other. In fact, they don’t even necessarily hold similar stances for similar reasons.
That you don’t think Russia broke international law by invading Ukraine.
Remember when you kept threatening me that you’re gonna ban me off of a whole instance because I downvoted a comment of yours?
How “it” works? What? You mean… comparisons? Yes, they do.
I’ve compared your rhetoric to that of Trump. Nothing in that makes the assertion you believe in any of the same things he does. You’re avoiding a question like him, and like him, you’re deluding yourself that people can’t infer what your stance is from your avoidance. Which is… silly, to say the least.
Here are the only things you post and say “no, that’s not been said”, “you shouldn’t believe this publication”, “that’s not how it works”, “no that’s not what I said”, “no that’s not exactly how I would put it”, etc etc. Yet you absolutely refuse to elaborate on how you would “put” something when ASKED DIRECTLY.
Refusing to answer one question once, because you object to it’s framing, would be understandable, and you could elaborate on why easily within a comment. Systematically avoiding saying whether you’re pro-Russian, whether Russia broke international law by invading Ukraine, whether Russia has indeed ever done anything that has broken international laws (which we could sit here weeks listing, with confirmed sources) is a very clear indicator to your beliefs.
Like I’ve said several times, I’ve asked you for your beliefs. I’ve not stated that I know them. I’ve stated that I know what it means when I’m alone with someone in a lift, there’s a loud “PRRRRRTTT” sound, their white pants go brown and a nasty smelling muck starts coming from their pant leg, even when they loudly say “I didn’t just shit myself”, because I know what shitting one’s self looks like and just saying the words “b-b-but no no that’s not what happened” doesn’t change what ACTUALLY HAPPENED.
You’re pretending that you’re not pro-Russian, because you know people are disgusted by people who support Putler’s insane regime. How does it feel being the world’s most massive losers as a nation? If I’m wrong and you’re actually against Putin and the international warcrimes he and Russia are responsible for, you’re very welcome to say so and I’ll apologize for my assumptions.
I’m starting to think you’re hoping that, by being rude & annoying enough, someone will ban you, so you can then blame Russian trolls! Russian trolls! Russian trolls! Or maybe you’re just like this.
$ curl -s 'https://lemmy.ml/api/v3/modlog?limit=50&other_person_id=8274625' \ > | jq 'pick(.removed_comments, .banned_from_community, .banned, .removed_posts) | keys[] as $k | .[$k] | length' \ > | paste -s -d+ - | bc 43 $oh and here’s a direct quote from him, from his link from our earlier chat:
There are approximately zero Russian trolls
He’d give up on Ukraine. And call it a win.
“Winning the battle is worth losing the war”
(Trump, The Art of the Deal, pp. 179-181)
“I could make a deal with Hitler to stop this war tomorrow!”
Yeah pretty much.
Aka appeasement. We tried it Donny. Though this time it’s Trump who wants to be dictator.
Trump doesn’t care so long as Russia keeps paying him.
That’s a short sentence for that many pages. I knew it was in big print, but…
It’s illustrated so his voters can understand the book
From the chapter: “Yeah, but remember that one time…”
The Jews would have had peace if they’d just let themselves be taken to camps peacefully.
This is less funny because Russia literally did commit a holocaust in Ukraine.
or maybe extort them again.
Yea, that infuriated me.
He didn’t answer a single fucking question about anything, just ranted about illegals eating pets the whole time.
So weird…
Don’t worry, when Kamala catches and imprisons those illegals she will do transgender surgeries on them
This is why I don’t watch the debate. I know it’ll just piss me off because he won’t say anything but crazy shit.
It was great seeing Kamala get under his skin. The reaction cams were really fun seeing Kamala react like a normal human to his insane rantings and him just smoldering and getting angrier and angrier when she hit back
My favorite was when she clearly (very clearly IMO) seemed about to say “…but this motherfucker…” and restrained herself.
Omg I forgot about that moment!
trump:
But it was so crazy that it was incredibly funny. I was doing paraphrases of a lot of his responses in the pinned debate thread in c/news if you’re curious.
The thing is, it isn’t actually funny. we can laugh at the old racist piece of shit criminal but it is actually quite sad and makes me angry that this is where we are.
Yeah I’ll look back and laugh if he loses
I’ll have to check it out! I do enjoy seeing the highlights and memes afterwards lol.
First time?
I was looking forward to what he was going to say about why he blocked the border bill. As expected, he chose to immediately talk about something else.
Let’s not forget: it appears that JD Vance may be the originator of that whole farce.
In which case, Trump touted it because either a) they honestly think it is good propaganda which will sway the campaign, or b) Trump is quite literally eating his own dog food, because there are too many lies to keep track of.
Trump said during the debate that her vp pick was insane. I lol’d
Well, every accusation is a confession with them.
It was obvious as hell that he wants Russia to win.
All we have to do is make him president elect! We don’t even have to inaugurate him!
You’ll get all the Logan act violations you seek if you act now!
This gets me - if he’s that fucking clever then he should have ended it by now. And he says he’s good friends with Zelensky, how? Do they go out drinking together? They’ve probably spoken twice. America should be ashamed of Trump the Liar.
America should be ashamed of Trump the Liar.
Americans capable of feeling shame are. Unfortunately, his base is incapable of feeling shame, so there’s no effect there.
They’re capable of feeling shame, just not for good reasons. Like, they can feel ashamed of thinking a trans person is hot.
he will allow Russia to win yes, in exchange for favours probably
Has he not done enough already for that wretched, glorified petrol station they call a country.
He is in a LOT of debt, financially and politically, to Russia. And he also is desperate to win, because if he loses he’s going to jail. He’ll do anything Putin wants him to
What makes you think he hasn’t already been given the favor years or decades ago and how he’s the one repaying it and he’ll get nothing in return?
Mostly the fact that Trump never pays his debts.
I have to wonder if the potential for accidentally falling out of a window goes any way into affecting the way he approaches certain debts.
Can’t argue with that one lol
Of course he does, he’s a bought man.
Yea, what a POS he is for pretty much admitting this. Not that we didn’t know this already.
This stood out to me. Do we know of anyone who Trump might be worried about upsetting if he said he wanted Ukraine to win? Anyone at all?
Do we know of anyone who Trump might be worried about upsetting if he said he wanted Ukraine to win?
Yes, I think there’s this one man, Trumps big idol, I think his name was Vladimir the war criminal Putin.
Do we know of anyone who Trump might be worried about upsetting if he said he wanted Ukraine to win? Anyone at all?
That question is awkwardly worded, why are you putin it that way?
Just not russian to any conclusions
Tsar right to know if he’s compromised.
Moscows are fat. Trump is fat. Coincidence? Probably not.
?
Moscows=most cows
Ah.
Thanks
Fun fact: at his mother’s deathbed, Stalin reportedly told her that he had “become something like the Tsar”. Perfectly accurate FWIW.
What is confusing to me is why would it matter to Putin if Trump lied here? The Russian mode of government is lying and deception after all.
Does he actually think that his voters want Ukraine to lose? Oh fuck, do his voters actually want Ukraine to lose?
They’ve been listening to the Russian trolls and bots.
And bought and paid for Tim pool
Their line isn’t that Ukraine should lose, it’s that America shouldn’t give them money while homeless vets, Ukraine is corrupt, biden crime family, nato expansion, etc. Which coincidentally are all Russian talking points.
Those damn russians, constantly bringing up recent history like that.
Didn’t Hunter get like millions of dollars from both Russian and Ukranian oligarchs? It’s so cool how the kids of politicans always end up with these sweet deals- and to think Trump is claiming to be the deals guy
Oh thanks, I forgot hunter Biden.
Now go and Google what the Budapest memorandum was.
Russia stated that it had never been under obligation to “force any part of Ukraine’s civilian population to stay in Ukraine against its will.” Russia suggested that the US was in violation of the Budapest Memorandum and described the Euromaidan as a US-instigated coup.
Yes, the CIA psyop’d over 70% of the country to support joining the EU, then forced yanukovitch to say “screw that we love Russia” and piss everyone off. And the totally organic resistance movement in the east that happened to have russian equipment and… Soldiers? Yeah just the people self determining or whatever.
So what about the ethnic Russians, and the rest of the non-Ukranian speakers?
There was a base of people (30% per your post) who didn’t support this and when the government cracked down on resistance, city centers ended up shelled with artillery for years.
Just a shitty situation to get caught in the middle of, frankly. Did you support NATO intervention against Serbia when it used its military on a breakaway region?
Half the big right wing youtubers are getting paid by Russia.
Yes. They want Ukraine to lose.
I remember when Russia did go in, briefly Fox News was full of editorializing that Russia should get to have Ukraine. They at least tried to got full on pro-Russia when they thought the narrative might fly and Ukraine was going to just get conquered in a week or so. Clearly they were trying to set things up for blithe acceptance for what Russia had done and for the world to move on (until next time).
I think that between the prolonged conflict and the fact that their boomer audience actually may still be inclined to remember their cold war feelings that this won’t fly, that they backed off to less aggressively calling for complete Russian victory. But as seen here, there’s still a theme of making it clear that you’re ok with whatever outcome, leaning toward “but should we spend our money?” to undermine things rather than calling for a pro-russia outcome outright.
I wonder if a big part of the reason is just the whole phone call about Biden and subsequent impeachment, and how Zelenskyy wouldn’t play ball and the whole thing damaged Trump’s ego in a big way. So even if it’s politically advantageous in every way to say you want Ukraine to win, Trump is incapable of doing so.
The whole reason he tried to keep weapons from Ukraine was because he was given instructions by Putin to make Russia’s planned invasion easier.
Trump being Trump, he tried to extort some political favors or of Zelenskyy first, but clearing a path for Putin was always the goal.
Putin’s mum.
This needs to be very widely publicized.
It won’t. Because people are hung up about the eating pets thing. Which, insane as it is might have happened.
Idk why the actual issues are swept under the rug, and the controversial takes are the focus.
It was a presidential debate. It was fairly publicized.
I think maybe they mean… Like, not washed out by the other 90 minutes of crazy shit he was saying.
Oh no doubt. I only wish she hadn’t spent so much time explaining what a fucking idiot he was instead of taking about herself or her plans. He made all those talking points for her by, well, talking… It was a great beat down nonetheless, and I get it was her one time to really make a fool out of him in person, but again, he did that better than anyone ever could.
Great show overall, would watch season 2.
She walked him like a dog. Flatly stated he could be easily manipulated, and proceeded to do just that. He could not even muster the courage to make meaningful eye contact with her the entire debate. She just stared him down and dominated him. How brutally emasculating for him.
Watching it made me so hungry, going to doordash some fried kitten.
I dunno, I just read an article about that country’s political debate from last night and it didn’t mention this point, it was mostly discussing how angry that bloke got at the other politician and how overall it seems like it was a bad night for him and a good night for her.
The specifics were a bit overshadowed by the perceived importance of the event and it’s outcome itself, I think.
I’m sure in the coming days some more details will flow out of the USA and we’ll hear some discussion of specifics where they concern us, like their politician’s stances on the war in Europe, I agree. I’ve just not seen it mentioned just yet is all.
But it’s only 7am and I think the debate was in the middle of the night, so I shouldn’t expect much yet haha :-D
But Kamala Harris should have poited that out and reminded everyone that Trump wouldn’t answer. Then it would be her jabbing him instead of some talking head no one knows letting it pass. Missed opportunity.
It will not put off his voters. Some of them just don’t care about anything international. Others admire Putin as a strongman who isn’t afraid to kill his enemies and persecute minorities, a moral conservative, a self-professed Christian, an ally against democracy and a defender of the same bigotries they share.
He doesn’t just need the MAGA faithful to win. I can’t believe I have to keep saying this.
You’re right. The hope is that they’re not enough and he fails to attract anyone else.
I don’t think he’s gaining voters and I do think he’s losing them.
I feel like when Harris said that Putin would be sitting in Kyiv, Trump didn’t understand. “Why would he be in Kyiv, Putin would be at home, happier of course” because he’s taking it literally like a fucking idiot.
And yes, Trump, of course Putin would be happier with you in charge when he invaded. The Biden administration gave crucial Intel in the months leading up to the invasion and military support. Harris 100% deserves props for being involved in that.
He also still refused to admit he lost four years ago, and admit any fault or regret for Jan 6th. And he showed zero remorse or awareness about the Central Park Five. Pure deflection for every single question.
His boss sure as shit doesn’t want Ukraine to win.
His boss wants to stay in power, Ukraine is just convenient way of doing it.
Ukraine was a massive fuck up for Putin. He believes in the bullshit known as color revolution.
So he thought he’d pull one in Ukraine. A few years of some soldiers fucking around in the East, then he’d walk in and be welcomed.
Which is fucking stupid.
But Putin has long since killed anyone who would tell him that an idea is stupid, or that people don’t work the way a paranoid, backstabbing KGB trained psychopath thinks they do.
No, Putin fucked up hard due to the dictator trap.
Now he’s scrambling. He’s been killing off rivals and opponents at a breakneck pace the last few years, all because his position has never been weaker.
And he barely managed to diffuse a coup attempt.
He had to use treachery to do it, so the next time, the coup leader will not back down.
No, Putin is desperate to pull out some sort of win in Ukraine, because anything else is the end of his rule, and likely his life.
And he barely managed to diffuse a coup attempt.
Context?
Priggy’s aborted thunder run: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group_rebellion
Ohh, I forgot about that. Not sure if that coup would have made things better, but it was an interesting time.
It would have made shit so much worse, but is a sign of weakness in Putin’s rule.
That’s why Putin is so murder happy right now. He’s having to reconsolidate his rule.
He knows he can’t say Russia but he doesn’t want Ukraine to win so he does this.
I don’t know why he can’t say Russia. It’s the obvious truth, his swallowers - sorry, his followers - would lap it up no matter what, and it’s no more or less insane than anything else he says.
They are more apt to believe obvious lies than obvious truths.
…how many years ago was it when “facts don’t care about your feelings” was their thing?
Their facts were nonsense, of course, but they at least tried. The lazy, obvious bullshit that 1/3 of the population immediately adopt as their whole identity now is genuinely depressing.
Russian Asset. Better dead than Red.
Americans being so politically illiterate they think that the government they practically installed is somehow communist.
lol remember to vote I guess
Nothing stupider than an American. Well, an American with a political agenda maybe.
russia isn’t “red” and never really was to begin with
Yeah keep dreaming about the communist utopia that will definitely happen… somewhere… at some point… …maybe…?
Communism isn’t Utopian, it isn’t a “perfect model of society” that people simply need to agree with in their minds to adopt. It’s closer to a theory of historical development and analyzing what will come after Capitalism in that long chain of development.
Knowing about it can speed up the process of development, since you can better direct it, but modes of production emerge from what came before.
That’s what annoys me the most. Tankies will go defend Russia like it’s the promised land of communism, when the only remnant of communism it has is rigged elections and propaganda.
Also wrong. Rigged elections would imply there ever was a communist Russia. There never was. It was (maybe at its best, in part) socialist and most of the time after the zars a military state. That is true for all states that were left leaning btw. No communists to be found.
No true Scotsman
Russia very much was communism in the real world.
Great argument. What do you base this on?
It’s like china calling itself communist right now.
Yes there was rhetoric in the USSR that suggested they were but it was an instrument to legitimate the horrible things that they did to their people.
From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_society
A communist society is characterized by common ownership of the means of production with free access[1][2] to the articles of consumption and is classless, stateless, and moneyless,[3][4][5][6] implying the end of the exploitation of labour.[7][8]
That was not the case. It was state owned, as the transition from whatever system was there before to socialism plans. Communism is supposed to be something different.
I am not arguing that it would be good or better than anything we have today but am saying that we never saw communism in the modern world.
Change my mind with arguments and not down votes.
This is a semantic matter. No socialist state has ever claimed to have reached the stage of communism, including China. But some socialist states—including China—have been/are run by communist governments/parties, which claim to be working toward reaching that stage.
Okay lets use wiki as a source… https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_communist_states
The following communist states were socialist states committed to communism. Some were short-lived and preceded the widespread adoption of Marxism–Leninism by most communist states.
Russia Russia Chita Republic (1905–1906) Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic (1917–1991) Amur Socialist Soviet Republic (1918) Turkestan Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1918–1924) Volga German Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1918–1941) Bashkir Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1919–1991) Tatar Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1920–1990) Kirghiz Autonomous Socialist Soviet Republic (1920–1925) Mountain Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1921–1924) Dagestan Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1921–1991) Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1921–1941; 1944–1945) Yakut Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1922–1991) Buryat Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1923–1990) Karelian Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1923–1940; 1956–1991) Kazakh Autonomous Socialist Soviet Republic (1925–1936) Kirghiz Autonomous Socialist Soviet Republic (1926–1936) Mordovian Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1934–1990) Udmurt Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1934–1990) Kalmyk Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1935–1943; 1957–1991) Checheno-Ingush Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1936–1944; 1957–1991) Kabardino-Balkarian Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1936–1944; 1957–1991) Komi Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1936–1991) Mari Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1936–1991) North Ossetian Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1936–1993) Karelo-Finnish Soviet Socialist Republic (1940–1956) Kabardin Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1944–1957) Tuvan Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1961–1992) Gorno-Altai Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (1990–1991) Soviet Republic of Soldiers and Fortress-Builders of Naissaar (1917–1918) Donetsk–Krivoy Rog Soviet Republic (1918) Crimean Socialist Soviet Republic (1919) Far Eastern Republic Far Eastern Republic (1920–1922) Tuvan People's Republic Tuvan People's Republic (1921–1944) Soviet Union Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (1922–1991)Would you look at that…
China doesn’t call itself communist. It’s Socialist with Chinese characteristics.
You are right, I mixed something up
Same argument though for socialism. They are a capitalist country that calls itself something else. You don’t seriously believe they are socialist In any other way than their name.
Communism isn’t about ideological purity. The USSR never made it to the global, total, Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society Marx describes as Upper Stage Communism, but the Soviets never argued that they had. What the Soviets did, was begin the process of working towards that.
Thanks for a proper response. More than others in this thread are capable of.
The clear distinction is hard, I accept that point. The phases at least how I learned it are clear. First state owned then truly society owned as a goal. They never got anywhere near that. Nor a classless society. It wasn’t the old classes from before 1900 but classes as in power structures were very much present.
And yes it was their expressed and I believe trat they were truthful about that to create a communist state. But there were power struggles and the clear ideas became unclear and what remained (intentionally or not) was the name of the goal justifying all the horrible things.
Again, I am not arguing against or for communism, just making the argument that there was never a communist country as in the sense they reached something resembling the idea of the word. Keeping in mind that there is not a clear line of demarcation, this much is clear to me.
This is incorrect. The USSR was Socialist, and was attempting to work towards building Communism.
Yes working towards as in socialism is the first stage to communism. But they didn’t get far thus my argument was there wasn’t communism in the USSR.
They got pretty far, they were Socialist for nearly the entire 20th century. They liberalized towards the end and were dissolved, but the narrative that they weren’t Socialist or that it wasn’t a real attempt at building Communism is nonsense.
Yes arguing that Russia was never socialist (or tried hard to be) would be nonsense. I am not arguing that though. I said that there was never communism. As in, archived and not used as veil to hide the failing government and society.
To be fair, it has the most boots to be licked and some people have urges that the rest of us will never understand. /S
What is Red in this context?
C. All of the above.
deleted by creator
Russia isn’t Communist anymore.
Why’d you delete that?
Just to elaborate, my first thought was: “I dislike this anti-Communist Cold War-era hysteria. I’ll post something to try to counter this hysteria.”
And then I realized: Wait. People are going to think I’m “defending” Russia against accusations of being Communist, and I’m tired of people attacking me for being “pro-Russia”, so I deleted it almost immediately.
So, basically, I’ve started to self-censor my thoughts because I find the toxicity of Lemmy exhausting. Go enjoy hunting your Reds under the Bed, and I’m going to do something better with my time, like go outside.
I really wanted Lemmy to work out, but it’s clear to me that this place is as bad as Reddit, just in a different way.
So, basically, I’ve started to self-censor my thoughts because I find the toxicity of Lemmy exhausting. Go enjoy hunting your Reds under the Bed, and I’m going to do something better with my time, like go outside.
I really wanted Lemmy to work out, but it’s clear to me that this place is as bad as Reddit, just in a different way.
Depends on the instance. Lemmy.world tends to be one of the more toxic instances if you left Reddit, it’s trying to recreate Reddit itself, and the users are generally people who loved Reddit but hated Spez in particular for the API crisis.
I decided it wasn’t worth arguing over.
Not only this, but they rephrased the question asking if he thought it would be in America’s best interest to win the war and he declined to answer again…
He refused to answer any question
That’s not true, he very clearly answered that he’s stronger than Superman and smarter than Batman.
He could beat Batman for sure, especially with prep time to make a concept of a plan.
