I’ve been seeing some concerning trends whereby anti-vaxx posts are defended as “free speech” and a growing number of users with “Trump Won” sentiments.

Is there going to be a stance taken on this? Or are we going to lose this community, like so many others, to propaganda and hatred?

@nutomic
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We dont have any site rules on those topics, so its not a reason for ban/removal on its own. There is also no rule about misinformation, because it can be very hard to determine what falls under that label.

I think if someone is clearly spreading false information, it should be easy enough for any user to debunk it using actual facts. That way mods can focus on their actual task (ensure that people behave well), instead of turning into some kind of “fact checkers”. Besides, everyone can learn something from such discussions.

@AgreeableLandscape
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Adding to this, this comment NOT mean we endorse the posting of misinformation or that we personally agree with every post we don’t remove, or even that all the admins agree on everything among themselves on how best to moderate. It just means that it can get messy trying to decipher what is misinformation and what isn’t and we’re not all-knowing, and that we trust the Lemmy community to respond with factual counterpoints to things they disagree with.

@daelphinux
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@AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml My feed today has been 1:5 posts about antivax, and almost every thread has had some sort of election denialism.

If we don’t take a stand now we’re going to be the next Voat/Gab/what have you. I came here because I was promised Leftists, not liberals. Take a stand and do something about this before it becomes a rapidly dying community.

Also, in re: “We can’t disprove it”, yeah no shit: you can’t disprove anything. The burden is on the person making the claim, not the person refuting it. But keep shifting that burden to logical impossibility. If that’s the moderation view here, you just solidified lemmy’s future content.

yeah I agree

@factchecker
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I disagree. A single post you don’t like shouldn’t change the rules for everyone. Try logging out and coming back later.

Dessalines
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I def don’t want this instance to be full of the reactionary anti-vaxx spam you see on the “free speech” reddit alts (which we are not a free speech instance obvi). Regardless of how their views differ, their hyper-individualized plague-spreading ethos is not welcome here. I’ve found they either don’t think covid exists, or it isn’t dangerous, and even if it is, its better that grandma die on the freedom altar… more important than lives, is their Freedom TM. This captures it:

At the same time we should allow discussion as long as its respectful, especially on things like efficacy of various measures taken, specific vaccines, etc. I think its entirely pointless because I greatly doubt we have any epidemiologists here, but I guess that’s what some people like to spend their time on.

I banned @trumpwon@lemmy.ml btw yesterday I think.

@daelphinux
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Thanks for the statement, and thanks for that!

That was… quite the username…

@trumpstillwon
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removed by mod

Good catch, I instantly pointed that out.

@daelphinux
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It doesn’t seem to matter. I’ve seen 3 posts today, all with an admin telling people not to report anti-vax posts because there’s no rule.

“Lemmy, a community of liberal privacy and FOSS enthusiasts…”

Personally I feel nutomic is somewhat right and wants to keep the cautionary tale in mind and in vision, whereas dessalines knows the balance.

I can guide these people with my experience if needed (and as I have done in helping shape Lemmy). It is not hard to identify the issues if you can make sense of the chaos and have your moral compass functioning well.

BTW it is leftist, not liberal

@daelphinux
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I know, about the leftist correction, I was making a commentary on how liberal it is to allow an Anti-vaxx mandate discussion as if it’s not a thinly cloaked excuse to legitimize sharing a substantial amount of vaccine misinformaiton.

I think when we start allowing bad-faith efforts to hide worse things we open the door for all of the same sad excuses that lead to the failings of voat, mewe, gab, and literally everything else that started to get away from that shit, and it just fills on in anyway.

Yeah I know that, I will put myself on the frontlines as much as possible to keep this platform healthy. Lemmy is probably the last hope and is THE forum platform to replace Reddit going public by March, and the push is needed highly. We need this platform to stay sane and just open enough at the same time. Careful balancing act.

@daelphinux
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@dessalines@lemmy.ml friend, I don’t think you’re going to get your wish. This instance is already filling up with that “free speech” nonsense, and the other admins seem to have no desire to care.

@trumpstillwon
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removed by mod

CHEF-KOCH
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Extremists are always trying to undermine democracy with the free speech argument, and this is why moderation is needed. It is also not possible to get rid of all propaganda because some info that are spread are hard to verify or to debunk and often take years until someone really find out what is going on.

Free speech is not deliberately spreading misinformation or pseudoscience. Free speech is when you can express your own opinion, and not what others trying to force on you, what you only blindly echo chamber or wrongfully respell.

If you find such communities or individuals just block them, there is not really a point in taking them serious or listen to them.

I do not think Lemmy will lose the battle here, the admins say they are lefties, so the orientation is clear. If something is out of control, you should directly contact the admins and they will respond or take care of things.

The Internet shall be no room in that you can do whatever you want and get away with hate, crime etc. and this is what such people always get wrong.

@bidencheated
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Nobody gives a shit about US elections bub

krolden
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This entirely.

@daelphinux
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There’s also that. Imagine being a USIAN and thinking that the election was going to come out fair or wasn’t going to be rigged whoever won it.

USIAN popular opinion and voter beliefs don’t actually have any bearing on US law. It’s a joke of a government.

That said: We can still use it as a good litmus test…

@factchecker
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False. The U.S. is the most important country in the world.

liberals are no more, they have been fact checked 😔

Absolutely owned, holy shit

Bilb!
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Hey man, if you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying.

@daelphinux
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Well you’re probably safe from @nutomic@lemmy.ml

@dessalines@lemmy.ml might disagree though.

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