The title pretty much says it all. I’ve always struggled to connect with others, but the farther I find myself outside of societal norms, the harder it gets.
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Well said! I agree there are underlying reasons for why we reject certain social norms and not others. But I might push back a little bit - what about the cases where these reasons effectively trump any potential loneliness their actions would cause? i.e. I made the “decision” to transition, despite knowing it would definitely isolate me from a lot of close friends and family.
That’s a tough situation. I guess I would just advise trying to find other groups who will accept you for who you are. You’re not alone, but you might have to work much harder to seek out people who are able to understand what you’re going through.
Lemmy is a good substitute sometimes but you really need IRL support as well.
One thing to take a moment on is double checking if you really are being isolated or if you’re just perceiving what you expect to see. The one person I’ve known closely who has some gender uncertainty/questions had some pre-determined expectations of what would happen, and as a result saw them validated at every turn regardless of the intent.
It’s possible that what you see is truly non-acceptance, but take a step back to be sure it’s not just a bit colored by your own expectations of others response.
If you can afford to, move somewhere more tolerant
what about the cases where these reasons effectively trump any potential loneliness their actions would cause?
The mere act of understanding the reasons that make loneliness worth a course of action precludes rejecting societal norms out of hand or following them uncritically. So, I think you’re good.
I don’t really have any advice for your question, but I want to applaud you for having the kind of strength needed to be who you are.
Perhaps, not the most pleasant thought, they were never really your friends if they cannot accept who you are inside—which has no impact on them or anyone else but you.
There are some really nice people on FB and Insta. People who never had the time nor reason to realise that they’re being advertised and exploited. People who will never join the Fediverse because they’re happy with what they get from their current social.
If you’re a single person, looking to meet new interesting people, you’ve just shut out 90% of the world.
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That’s the thing – it’s not online access only. More and more people are finding each other online and forming lasting relationships from it.
I currently live in a country where dating is extremely hard, especially so for the foreigners. Finding my people here just doesn’t happen. Oh sure there are meetup groups, but that’s a handful of people. Using a simple app like FB to find english-speaking people in your area who have a common interest? An extremely useful tool.
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well that’s the sad thing - I don’t use nor have I really ever. The most social I ever did was 15 years of reddit.
But I watch friends and colleagues, go out on dates with like-minded people, or find great deals on furniture, and I can’t help but think “huh.”
My main point is, it’s a horrible app/platform, but it has incredible utility by way of reach.
That makes sense, FB is still fairly popular with younger people in foreign countries I guess.
In the US, pretty much nobody below 40 is going to be actively socializing on FB.
Yes! Absolutely yes! But, those people do exist. They’re just a bit harder to find. This might help
https://slingshotcollective.org/radical-contact-list/
Eventually you can build a massive bubble if you find the right places to be. That includes your job, your friends, your acquaintances, your grocery store and more. When I interact with full on normies it is so deeply jarring, because I do it so rarely.
But honestly you can still get lonely in that situation because you found your people and you still can’t connect. So I’d say it’s most important to be able to address loneliness in the self. Become someone you want to hang out with. Do interesting things and pay attention to non human things for a bit, like birds or interesting plants on walks, or volunteer with a community garden. Go full DIY, start biking, get a dog. If you’re single and not tied down you could go woofing for a bit, travel the world for free. Volunteer at hostiles and go solo backpacking until you either fall in love with yourself or some random person or two or three. Dang but also remind yourself that it’s ok and normal to be lonely. You can give yourself that space, but you will always be lonely if you cannot love to be around yourself.
Wow my edible kicked in while I was writing that and it’s either insane or helpful, but my sentiment is, I hope you never feel lonely for too long. Reach out anytime. Love ya, friend.
I’m still trying to figure that out because I have this issue too.
I’m here to raise my hand as well
That’s the neat part: you don’t.
I had to explain to someone that I cut ties with a friend after they became a neo-nazi and they responded with, and I quote “You know, you just need to be more forgiving of people” which prompted me to remind them “they became a Nazi” - “Well, you know…”
what you are saying is very abstract, like what societal norm are you getting rid of? do you want to run around naked or something
Have you considered moving somewhere that’s better aligned with your values? It’s not something to undertake lightly, but I know that moving helped me a lot. Totally different situation for me though.
For me it was basically just moving somewhere bigger, even if I didn’t get much better at making connections just knowing it was possible made a difference.
Good luck to you.
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Get a job where you have to deal with people all day. Then by the end of the day you’ll hate them and just want to go home and be by yourself.
So the question is where to find chaotic/ anarchist people like yourself who don’t follow the rulez. I’d like to know, too. The answer is probably to get to know A LOT more people so you higher your chances to find someone compatible.
You have more in common with normies than you think. Focus on that and ignore the rest. Example. A few years ago I lived walking distance away from a barber shop and a salon. The barber shop was always packed and the salon was always empty. I started going to the salon to save the wait. I found out why it was always empty. The owner was a massive Trump supporter and would rant about politics all the time. But it was always empty so I kept going there. Over time I realized how easy it was to have a conversation with her if I picked the right topics. Insurance, cable companies, the price of gas. Basically, all of the ways we’re getting fucked.
Regular people have opinions about the things we talk about (privacy, consumerism, AI etc.). So, it’s really easy to strike up a conversation. Try it the next time you are waiting in the self checkout line. “You wouldn’t believe how many times that thing has accused me of stealing…” “IDK about you, but whenever I have to select produce, I pick the cheap one.” “Did you know they use the security footage to make computers smarter?” “I heard xyz thing about smart cars.” “They terk er jerbs!”
Don’t lean into it too hard or be too technical. Set something up and let them do most of the talking. Then ask another question. Listen even if they are wrong. Use your expertise to guide them to what they already know, but don’t actively think about. Everyone knows google spies on us or social media is harmful. Get them to think about how and why.
Getting as deep in the weeds as we are is definitely isolating, but when you approach things this way, you find you have more similarities with the average person than differences.
When you’re falling into a black hole, you set all your thrusters to maximum.
There’s no trick. You’ve either fallen too far to still be able to climb, or not. There’s no way to know whether you’ve slipped too far, other than to climb as hard as you possibly can, and that’s also the optimal strategy for escaping.
There’s no trick. You have to push as hard as you can, as soon as you can. Each moment you wait makes the task harder.
Which norms and why?
Breaking free from societal norms because they are norms will not get you anywhere.
Wearing a shirt that says Fuck you and being a glum dick about everything wont win you friends or convert anyone to your cause.
Being approachable and listening to others in order to connect with them as a human… Then when they ask if you want to hail satan as is the norm and you say no, my friend, for I only praise the Sun. They may be more inclined to see some sun followers as not total assholes as they pray to our dark lord
Itf youre in a situation for it, it can be fun to move to a placewhenre others choose a different societal norm more in line with your own ideals. Like Florida, where some child labor laws were repealed… Take that societal norm
I’ll give my humble opinion here, I’m not a professional of course.
DISCLAIMER: This is just an opinion, from an anonymous random person from the internet. I’m not a professional, and I don’t know you. However, if you can’t handle it yourself, I do suggest to try to do it with a professional.
What you feel is not loneliness, but the real feel of freedom. You tag it as loneliness because you have never felt it before, and (I guess) nobody around you can acknowledge that because they are attached to social norms, meaning they are not necessarily free as they want to.
Breaking from social norms create a sudden big space in your life, where one can call it freedom, and one can call it loneliness.
It’s up to you what you feel this space with, and how you look at it. And it’s only you who can acknowledge it, nobody else.
Generally I wouldn’t recommend breaking entirely, but to balance it in a healthy manner, e.g set the limits that you (and only you) genuinely feel good with.
In my case, I quit using Facebook and Instagram in the past years, and naturally, things that are genuinely fit me started to sink in and fill it.
In the context of connecting to others, when you live your live genuinely, the people that will fit it the most, will come to your life naturally.
It’s tricky to do it today because we have a lot of channels that manipulate our social norms (e.g. social media, people around us, tv, e.g.).
Enjoy your freedom and genuineness mate.
Fellow lonely person here. No, it’s definitely just loneliness.
I hate the mantra I’ve often heard spewed that “if you stop looking for friends/a significant other/whatever”, they will naturally come to you. No, just no. For a small portion of people, they are lucky enough that this happens to them. But for the majority of people, finding relationships takes work.
As a kid, it was easy. Adult life is different and relationships no longer just fall into your lap like they did when you were in school. Ever hear people lament that making friends is harder as an adult? It legitimately is. We get caught up in work and home life and don’t necessarily have all these extracurriculars to meet people that we may have had as kids or young adults.
I don’t have the answers to OP’s specific scenario, as I’ve always struggled with this too. But telling someone “no, you’re not lonely” when they’ve expressed their loneliness…and telling someone “don’t bother seeking people out, they will come to you” is incredibly counterproductive “advice.”
Edit: I did some reading and it appears that OP is intending to transition. It’s incredibly unfortunate that unsupportive people exist nowadays and it must be hard to suddenly lose your friends and family like that. But the solution isn’t to stay there. It’s to leave and find a community of people that accept you. People won’t just magically come to you unless you stumble on a stroke of luck. You have to seek them out yourself.
Thank you for sharing, I added a disclaimer for emphasizing that it is just an opinion, and I’m not a professional.
I wish you the best.
