Some are quick to promote apps as being safe for your use just because they are encrypted. I will talk about how many of the popular apps that are commonly t...
Note that while this is about Telegram, this problem of reverse phone-number lookup also exists AFAIK with Signal.
Where is the source for Signal?
Because ASAIK there is no metadata accessible for Signal besides creation data of the account and the last time the account was online. No groups, no contacts, no anything. Source
That’s not enough to know which of the Signal accounts actually belongs to a demografic any more specific than “it uses Signal”. It’s definitely much less significant than all the datamining you can do in Facebook/Whatsapp and Telegram.
The only reason it has any significance is because not a lot of people use Signal, same as how using Matrix, XMPP or any form of non-standard communication puts you in a non-mainstream demografic.
With a big enough “it uses Signal” democrafic , you wouldn’t even be able to benefit much from knowing a number is in Signal… if every phone had a Signal account that metadata would be virtually useless.
Sure, it’s a leak, but it’s one leak that also exists in Whatsapp and Telegram, along with many others leaks that those other messengers have and Signal doesn’t.
I’m definitely not a fan of Signal (or Moxie’s views) myself, but I would definitely much rather people use it instead of having billions of them continue in Whatsapp or Telegram. The whole point being made is that there’s a big difference between using Signal and using those, we aren’t implying that any particular form of communication is perfect. None are. It’s just some are better than others.
We are not comparing Signal with “messengers that do not use phone-numbers” (which often leak other info instead). We are comparing it to messengers in the level of Telegram and Whatsapp, because the point was that placing it all on the same level isn’t accurate or fair. Reality isn’t Black&White.
Signal has flaws, but I’d much rather have people asking me to communicate via Signal than through Telegram/Whatsapp as they usually do. I do wish Signal was able to catter to that demografic.
You are missing the point. If you have a big list of suspect phone-numbers you can put them into Signal and it will show all that have their phone numbers registered with Signal.
Yes. That’s exactly what you get. A list of Signal users.
That is a metadata leak and quite a significant one.
Why is a user list in itself “a significant metadata leak”.
You would need other information for that, like groups, contacts, online times or anything else. But you don’t get that, so I can only repeat my question: what is the problem with it?
You (as aggressor) scan all your known mobile numbers agains let’s say Signal and discover that some numbers use Signal. That I understand. But now what? Unless you are the company Signal you would not have access to further data, or ?
Sure you can easily get further data by for example asking the phone companies for cell-tower log-in location and times. This you can then narrow down against your list of Signal using suspects and either remotely infect their phones with a trojan or simply snatch up the hardware at a “random” police check and access the already decrypted messages with identifiable phone-numbers of all the group-members.
What the fuck? Sure, you could also just being tortured till you tell them everything you know, but fking tracing over cell companies is not a security flaw in an app.
They could also just as well decrypt your self hosted emails that are cached on your device.
What does having Signal installed has to do with tracking down and installing a Trojan?
I don’t think that they will track only track you down for using Signal, and if they are they still will install a Trojan even without Signal installed on your phone.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Where is the source for Signal? Because ASAIK there is no metadata accessible for Signal besides creation data of the account and the last time the account was online. No groups, no contacts, no anything. Source
deleted by creator
That’s not enough to know which of the Signal accounts actually belongs to a demografic any more specific than “it uses Signal”. It’s definitely much less significant than all the datamining you can do in Facebook/Whatsapp and Telegram.
The only reason it has any significance is because not a lot of people use Signal, same as how using Matrix, XMPP or any form of non-standard communication puts you in a non-mainstream demografic.
With a big enough “it uses Signal” democrafic , you wouldn’t even be able to benefit much from knowing a number is in Signal… if every phone had a Signal account that metadata would be virtually useless.
Sure, it’s a leak, but it’s one leak that also exists in Whatsapp and Telegram, along with many others leaks that those other messengers have and Signal doesn’t.
I’m definitely not a fan of Signal (or Moxie’s views) myself, but I would definitely much rather people use it instead of having billions of them continue in Whatsapp or Telegram. The whole point being made is that there’s a big difference between using Signal and using those, we aren’t implying that any particular form of communication is perfect. None are. It’s just some are better than others.
deleted by creator
And yet Telegram and Whatsapp do that and more.
We are not comparing Signal with “messengers that do not use phone-numbers” (which often leak other info instead). We are comparing it to messengers in the level of Telegram and Whatsapp, because the point was that placing it all on the same level isn’t accurate or fair. Reality isn’t Black&White.
Signal has flaws, but I’d much rather have people asking me to communicate via Signal than through Telegram/Whatsapp as they usually do. I do wish Signal was able to catter to that demografic.
deleted by creator
Yes. That’s exactly what you get. A list of Signal users.
Why is a user list in itself “a significant metadata leak”. You would need other information for that, like groups, contacts, online times or anything else. But you don’t get that, so I can only repeat my question: what is the problem with it?
deleted by creator
Ok, out of interest, how does this work?
You (as aggressor) scan all your known mobile numbers agains let’s say Signal and discover that some numbers use Signal. That I understand. But now what? Unless you are the company Signal you would not have access to further data, or ?
deleted by creator
What the fuck? Sure, you could also just being tortured till you tell them everything you know, but fking tracing over cell companies is not a security flaw in an app.
They could also just as well decrypt your self hosted emails that are cached on your device.
deleted by creator
What does having Signal installed has to do with tracking down and installing a Trojan?
I don’t think that they will track only track you down for using Signal, and if they are they still will install a Trojan even without Signal installed on your phone.
deleted by creator