As Reddit’s enshittification reaches new heights their attempts to suppress attention for alternatives, like federated Lemmy, has the opposite effect as this Hacker News discussion shows.

  • @thoro
    link
    English
    117
    edit-2
    9 months ago

    Reading criticisms of Lemmy from Reddit and other platforms like HackerNews reminds me of reading criticisms of Reddit from Digg back in 2007-2010, except they’re more based on architecture instead of “it looks ugly”.

    Now there are things that will turn away users. There’s obviously a strong leftist culture here, there are less users so less content, and obviously federation is a stumbling block for many people.

    But I really think that’s ok similar to what people are saying in that Hacker News thread. I wouldn’t want all of Reddit to come over, and I think it’s better for the culture and growth here to get a self selected trickle/stream of users instead of a deluge.

    I don’t think Lemmy will necessarily have the same issues as Mastodon because Twitter/Mastodon requires you to know people or know accounts to follow to be useful. Lemmy just requires communities you’re interested in and a critical mass of users to drive posting and engagement. We’re already seeing greater activity as more users arrive

    • smallcirclesOP
      link
      English
      469 months ago

      That second comment by goplayoutside says it well: “Maybe the modest technical hurdles are a feature, not a bug.”

      I think it is a feature, and the same is true for Mastodon and the Fediverse as a whole, imho.

      • Kichae
        link
        fedilink
        299 months ago

        I also see it as a feature. If instances have a natural active user cap, then server-based communities can’t get so big as to outpace moderation. And admins have the ability to moderate local users’ behaviour on off-site sublemmies by enforcing their own codes of conduct.

        The internet used to be small, but expansive. It became big, but concentrated.

        I liked the former. I know many people like the latter. Those people are welcome to their corporate slums.

        • @cavemeat@beehaw.org
          link
          fedilink
          139 months ago

          I liked the former. I know many people like the latter. Those people are welcome to their corporate slums.

          You’ve worded it well. I think the technical nature of it is to its benefit, and many server may not want to make the signup process easier, for the reasons you mentioned.

      • animist
        link
        fedilink
        249 months ago

        @humanetech @thoro I like it because it weeds out the type of people who would end up being low-effort posters, trolls, and spammers.

      • @smartwater0897@lemmy.one
        link
        fedilink
        English
        129 months ago

        Very much so. It shares the load, both from a technical point of view but also from moderation and maintenance point of view.

        It’s actually pretty great, all of this.

      • @wintrparkgrl@beehaw.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        89 months ago

        While it keeps the willfully ignorant out, it can also keep people with learning disabilities out. Accessibility should always be worked on. That being said, Lemmy is certainly easy to access, Even more so than Mastodon IMHO because Mastodon you have to know people whereas lemmy all you have to do is sign up for a community

      • @argv_minus_one@beehaw.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        59 months ago

        Problem: organizations pushing a political or commercial agenda will train their agents to overcome modest technical hurdles. Spammers, in particular, will go to extreme lengths to overcome technical hurdles, including hiring people to solve CAPTCHAs.

        • comfy
          link
          English
          49 months ago

          Agreed, I remember being shocked about a decade ago learning that there were services run in developing countries where you pay about $1 for 1000 CATPCHA solves for your spam bot to pass along and a person solving it.

    • Ignacio
      link
      fedilink
      229 months ago

      There’s obviously a strong leftist culture here

      That depends on what instance you create an user on. For example, Lemmygrad.ml and Lemmy.ml are not the same thing, despite both belonging to Lemmy. The issues I see are having a tankie culture, and not having more points of view.

      There are less users so less content

      That’s something we can help with, although it’s not so easy. I mean, the users that are already here, we can create more content and interact more with each other, so eventually more users will come. It can be boring and tiring, but it’s not impossible.

      Federation is a stumbling block for many people

      That’s something absolutely new for the vast majority of people. I felt myself confused the first time I joined the fediverse too. But after some time, I felt myself less confused. Some clarifications, tutorials and support can do the real trick.

    • @backpackn
      link
      English
      159 months ago

      What will the next social media trend be? Seems like the centralized options are done for (FB, TW, Reddit), but they’re not being replaced by any single solutions. Tiktok took mainly genZ. Professionals have been wanting a twitter replacement to move to since musk and have yet to figure it out (bluesky, tribel, post social, takes, mastodon, etc has no apparent frontrunner). Political apps segmented some off like parler and the right stuff. Decentralized and foss apps have all kinds of solutions but won’t likely ever attract a huge crowd. So are we seeing the end of of an era of massive centralized social media?

      • @fuzzzerd
        link
        English
        339 months ago

        So are we seeing the end of of an era of massive centralized social media?

        God, I hope so.

      • Kichae
        link
        fedilink
        179 months ago

        Yeah, but none of the Twitter people were using hashtags, and a lot of them where hyper-fixated on finding their Twitter mutuals. They were just trying pretend Mastodon was a drop-in replacement for Twitter.

        They didn’t want to create their own space in the new place, and they didn’t want to integrate with those who were already there. They just kind of wanted to ignore the fact that anything was happening, while still, I guess, engaging in slacktivism.

    • @upperleft@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      58 months ago

      The strong leftist culture is a plus. I know I’m not going to get flooded with nazi shit like so many of the prior iterations of the reddit exodus (e.g. voat).

      • @nephs@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        0
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        Only one section of the political spectrum has consistently been combating nazifascist initiatives throughout history, including present history.

        And that’s not liberals.

    • @ipkpjersi@lemmy.one
      link
      fedilink
      English
      59 months ago

      It’s not like there’s not a strong leftist culture on reddit either so I don’t really see that as a problem unique to Lemmy. If Lemmy can provide a centralized-like decentralized platform, I think it can succeed.

      • @thoro
        link
        English
        8
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        There isn’t at all. Reddit is liberal at the very best and even then it’s mostly Obama liberal, which is center right outside the most conservative parts of the world.

        The leftist communities are much smaller, easily ignored, and often ridiculed in the mainstream subreddits. The gaming spaces complain about “wokeness” and criticisms of female representations among others. Thinly veiled racism and explicit transphobia abounds.

        In contrast, Lemmy is full of anarchists, communists, socialists, and other anti capitalist. It has been and remains a dominantly leftist community.

    • @Showervagina
      link
      English
      39 months ago

      UX is whatever. Would like to see more decentralization of large hosts to avoid it inevitably being 1 or 2 big lemmy hosts with everything.

      Also cross federation logins. I was so confused why my logins weren’t working on other servers.

    • ATGM 🚀
      link
      fedilink
      English
      -329 months ago

      The most disturbing thing I’ve seen is the evidence that Lemmy.ml is controlled by a genocide-supporting red fascist/third positionists. If that’s true, its a massive issue and makes the platform hard to trust.

      Very open to learning that this isn’t true, if it isn’t.

      • @m532
        link
        English
        189 months ago

        You are a wrecker who is trying to destroy lemmy. You will not succeed. Go back to 4chan where someone might believe your weird conspiracy theories.

        • @TheAnonymouseJoker
          link
          English
          49 months ago

          I know what he is. There used to be a person like this on Lemmy probably 2 years ago, who I shut down. He left with a vow to “destroy Lemmy”. There are some unhinged dumpster fires like this.

      • @Moonrise2473
        link
        English
        139 months ago

        Maybe you’re confusing with lemmygrad?

        I’d like to read more on this, if true

        • @TheAnonymouseJoker
          link
          English
          99 months ago

          There is nothing like this even on Lemmygrad. People there do not believe, they prefer dissecting through Cold War parroting. Liberals being Cold War McCarthyist parrots is a common phenomenon and should not be surprising. They are useful idiots.

          • @PorkrollPosadist
            link
            English
            10
            edit-2
            9 months ago

            Ziq is not a trustworthy source on shit. That guy is well known for lying and impersonating people to stir up shit, and has a personal vendetta against any leftist message board that he isn’t personally capable of manipulating. He impersonated me and a few other members of Hexbear in the very early days when it became clear r/ChapoTrapHouse wasn’t going to settle on Raddle.

            • ATGM 🚀
              link
              fedilink
              English
              0
              edit-2
              9 months ago

              Hm really? I saw a few links to posts on reddit with the same username as the lemmy.ml admin. Those posts were extremely Yikes.

              Edit: The lemmy.ml admin was removing my posts critical of the Chinese State, so it seems true.

          • @Moonrise2473
            link
            English
            79 months ago

            Fuck, i even didn’t notice that the lemmy.ml instance admin, also the Dev of lemmy and the android app has Mao as a profile cover, with Che as avatar…

            • ATGM 🚀
              link
              fedilink
              English
              -29 months ago

              Yup! The face of genocide & forum administration.

          • @TheAnonymouseJoker
            link
            English
            29 months ago

            Marxist-Leninists are not radical leftists. Do you even know what socialism is (no do not parrot the economics definition)? Do you know how many divisions exist between socialist left? What makes you such a pompous and loud person to talk on the subject, when you know nothing about such a deep subject? Westerners are so arrogant, intellectually disgusting and unhinged and do not know when to shut up.

            • @seirim
              link
              English
              -19 months ago

              Wow the vitriol, you’re the one assuming the worst in someone else here.

              • @TheAnonymouseJoker
                link
                English
                39 months ago

                Bother someone else, internet champ. Or go learn about communism instead of eating bullshit cooked up by Washington.

      • @RagingNerdoholic
        link
        English
        89 months ago

        Very open to learning that this isn’t true, if it isn’t.

        That’s not how this works. If you’re going to make serous accusations like that, the onus is on you to provide evidence to support them.

        FWIW, I have no particular loyalty to lemmy.ml, I just joined the first instance I saw.

      • @aRatherDapperFox
        link
        English
        89 months ago

        Do you happen to have a link to said evidence? I’d love to review it, myself.

      • luckless
        link
        fedilink
        English
        79 months ago

        What’s the source on that? That’s a pretty big accusation but I’d certainly want to know if it’s true.

        • Kichae
          link
          fedilink
          39
          edit-2
          9 months ago

          It stems from the fact that lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml cofederate, that the project leads are communists, and the claim that lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml off of the same IP address.

          The first two points are not in contention, but I haven’t, personally, been able to verify the third.

          Now, lemmygrad is absolutely a trollish, auth-left hellscape. And I say that with… well, not respect, but not specific derision, either. That genuinely seems to be the aesthetic they’re going for. They’re not here to make friends with anyone but themselves, and they’ll play apologetics for China, North Korea, and Stalin’s takeover of the Soviet Republic all day long.

          But even if the project leads are genuinely involved in that, it doesn’t really change the fact that the project is not inextricably tied to them. It’s an open source project. It can be forked, and forked again. No one actually needs lemmygrad or lemmy.ml. Or lemmy, for that matter. Everyone can hop over to kbin or Friendica and still access all of the same communities.

          Shit, they’re accessible from Mastodon and Calckey.

          And besides, it’s not like people avoid using software when it’s made by white supremacist capitalist techbros. In those cases, we all basically just go “yeah, but I’m not a white supremacist capitalist techbro” and carry on with our day. And those products generally can’t be wrenched from their control or oversight.

          Most people chose Elon over learning that multiple websites exist…

        • @FaceDeer
          link
          English
          149 months ago

          And even if it were true, there are other instances. The only reason I’m on lemmy.ml myself is because the one that was recommended to me first was offline when I tried it, I could move somewhere else if this turns out to be true.

          • Ignacio
            link
            fedilink
            39 months ago

            When I joined Lemmy a year ago (with another user), Lemmygrad was not my piece of cake, Lemmy.ml was too big (similar to mastodon.social), Lemmy.ca was not in my continent, and I didn’t notice about beehaw. So, sopuli was the only one standing: small, from Finland and not tankie.

            Creating a instance can be difficult, but it’s a good way when you don’t like what you’re offered, and it can help other people to find their home.

            • ATGM 🚀
              link
              fedilink
              -49 months ago

              So long as the entry points like join-lemmy aren’t controlled, then yes it is a possibly good solution. I’m not stating facts at this point, only stating my concern about what I saw.

          • ATGM 🚀
            link
            fedilink
            English
            -189 months ago

            What concerns me just now is whether join-lemmy the website is controlled by them or not. So far I don’t know if it is- But if the entry points are guarded by genocide-supporting (not denying) left-fascists, then that does pose a significant issues.

            BTW, these ifs I’m using aren’t rhetoric devices. I’m not stating this as fact. There seems to be indicators of concern- Is what I’m saying.

            • @_ed@sopuli.xyz
              link
              fedilink
              English
              249 months ago

              Having been a lemmy resident for a while (this being my second account and someone who doesnt visit lemmygrad at all) is that in my experience the Devs conduct themselves professionally, impartially and generally have the patience of saints.

              If you decide to stay here for a while you might form the same impression.

              • ATGM 🚀
                link
                fedilink
                English
                -219 months ago

                Regardless of whether that’s true, one of those devs seems to be a genocide supporter. Not even a denier, but a supporter.

          • @TheAnonymouseJoker
            link
            English
            09 months ago

            Marxist-Leninists are not radical leftists. Do you even know what socialism is (no do not parrot the economics definition)? Do you know how many divisions exist between socialist left? What makes you such a pompous and loud person to talk on the subject, when you know nothing about such a deep subject? Westerners are so arrogant, intellectually disgusting and unhinged and do not know when to shut up.

      • @TheAnonymouseJoker
        link
        English
        69 months ago

        Have you ever considered analysing the TV news you consumed from western propaganda news outlets regarding “communism”? Or is it just parroting without criticising the source of “communism bad” propaganda, or trying to self criticise your position? Have you ever considered what is critical thinking, or does it feel nice to have trolling privileges while you relax in your gaming chair slinging shit on leftists?