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Cake day: Apr 01, 2022

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Federation for Pixelfed, Mastodon, Pleroma and Peertube solve one main issue which is the lack of freedom of speech.

I completely disagree. In fact, ‘freedom of speech’ is not why I use Lemmy instances as opposed to other sites. I haven’t been banned from any reddit-like site. It’s also not why I use PeerTube. And based on what I’ve seen, 'free speech ’ isn’t the main reason why people use Pixelfed/Mastodon/Pleroma. Most of the millions moving to Mastodon aren’t doing it because they or their friends were banned or censored. The following points apply just as much to those platforms as they do Lemmy:

Even your implicit argument of different rules/moderation isn’t the main reason I use Lemmy’s federation. Federation allows small communities with different communities, different moderation and different softwares to cross-pollinate. This is extremely useful for social media platforms where popularity is (let’s generalize) necessary, and we don’t have the first mover advantage like reddit.

  1. Different Lemmy communities don’t have to compete. Progressive liberals can sign up to beehaw, classical liberals can sight up to wolfballs, leninists can sign up to lemmygrad, and ALL OF THEM can subscribe to mander.xyz communities! We’re not forced to pick and choose between a dozen competing environment communities, not hurt by splits in community over moderation differences.

In small communities this helps them stay alive. I’ve been on sites that have died. It’s not fun! That’s one thing federation solves for me.

  1. If an instance’s administration suddenly make a choice I don’t like, and I want to change my account to another site, I don’t lose access to all the communities I helped build. This doesn’t even have to be a moderation decision, it can be them changing the software or accidentally breaking it, or worst case, forcing ads or trackers on users. This is Free and Open Source Software. If Lemmy altogether somehow made major software changes I don’t like, I can edit the software and host my own instance. Then I am the moderator, there’s less trust I need to place in other moderators!

Having been a moderator for many highly-liberal (as in liberty, like ‘freedom of speech’) communities, you’ll understand what I mean when I say not all speech is worth reading, even if there is value in letting people be allowed to say it. So, you are right in that federation has an appeal for ‘freeze peach’ idealists. Wolfballs exists and federates, despite their users being banned from the most popular instances. Lemmygrad didn’t want to listen to the neo-nazis who were taking advantage of Wolfballs’s freedoms. So due to federation, Wolfballs still have a platform and community, and Lemmygrad don’t have to waste their time scrolling through it, while both communities have access to other less-political federated instances. That’s a real scenario that happened. Not some idealistic what-if.


It absolutely doesn’t, if I own an instance I can easily add ad features and analytics and allow advertisers to make accounts. However, culturally, there is generally a resistance to those things. It’s real and it’s meaningful. Sure, someone can scrape instances for some stats because they’re public websites but it’s not the same as tracking cookies and other technical invasive techniques that are commonplace.


It’s a two-edged sword: if a creator makes money from their art by shoving ads and marketing in my face, I wouldn’t mind them being alienated from most of these communities.

That doesn’t mean they can’t make money from their art, in fact alternate strategies like crowdfunding and donations for supporting artists are increasingly viable online.

I know it requires a cultural adjustment for most people to actually financially support artists and online services as we’re so used to them being supplied gratis, but it’s one that has shown itself to work in communities.


Probably Stable, I just use distro default (currenlty 5.15.*)



[yeah it's twitter junk, I know]

Well, also that they’re looking for a twitter replacement and not a reddit replacement. It’s not that they’re generally annoyed with the mechanics or format of twitter, but they’re looking for an alternative to its current leadership and direction.

But I suppose them being on Mastodon and therefore being exposed more to interoperable Fediverse platforms could give more causal exposure to PixelFed/Lemmy/PeerTube/etc.


haha they somehow put Poland in bad. Loving the serbia/croatia beef too.

I want to know what they think Portugal and France did wrong.




I recently ate at a restaurant, we were one of the only two or three dine-in customers and there was a steady stream of delivery orders.

When we finished, we were the only customers left. We talked to the owner’s brother (running the place that night, taking orders and half the cooking) after our meal, and at a point he lamented the trend towards delivery: they nab 30% of the revenue, which is bad enough, but then the food itself is affected: a freshly-cooked naan bread kept in delivery packaging will just it in its steam and get soggy by the time it’s delivered. A five-star dish becomes a three-star dish, and that affects your reviews.

But something that also came through, for me, was how it affects community. The manager-cook took us back into the kitchen, showed us around, let me put my hand in a huge ceramic tandoor, and made it into an experience (and not in the marketing buzzword sense!).

I’ve been raised in a city environment where food, if not made by family or close friends, is purely a commercial service. A smile from a server is the entire humanity of it, or you’re thoughtful, a thank you to the chef. I only know two exceptions rather than this Indian place, which is a kebab store (ordering certain foods will prompt an excited cheer from the staff) and a Japanese sushi store where the tiny open kitchen burst out ‘ohaiyo!’ when the door bell rang. It’s even embedded in our language, for an example, ‘companion’ comes from latin stems meaning ‘with’,‘bread’, com panis, someone you eat with. What happened to communal food culture in ‘the West’?

Well, maybe you get a bit of interaction from the delivery guy if you write notes telling them to dance… sigh

But I’ve also talked to someone who was short on money and ran two delivery jobs (as in, two services simultaneously) while on vacation so we went with them, and they emphasized that a 4 out of 5 is a bad score and that average allows you to be fired.

4 stars is, in no normal rating system, below average. Everyone I ask says that means ‘better than expected’ or ‘above average’.

So yeah, try and order directly from stores (I’ve never used a third-party delivery service) and if you must use delivery or taxi services, give 5 stars if they don’t deserve 1 star.


I’d say kdenlive for simple editing, da vinci resolve for advanced editing.

I’m just asking for the principle of OpSec at this point, whether it works or not

What do you mean by this? opsec is a word that gets thrown around a lot without understanding what it even means, it’s not a principle or something that can be rated 1 to 10. It means nothing without knowing your personal/operational threat model. Good opsec practices for one operation can be terrible opsec practices for another.

Are you saying you want something that doesn’t have corporate tracking in it?


I’m not a Mastodon/etc. users but I can sympathize with some other sites. Even here has its own Ongoing September from redditors.

I would recommend reaching out to moderation teams and raising awareness, because they probably have far more ability to put global notifications or sign-up messages, and to give warnings to uncomfortable behaviour.

Make sure to call out twitter carryover, in a constructive way, so that people are aware that Mastodon isn’t ‘twitter but here’.



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Honestly, if that happened in my city, I’d try and start a chant saying “Fuck Candy Crush” and hope it rewrites the headline.


In a community called World News, it’s useful to make sure the post title shows which country this is about.


I never understood people who post these “rest stops alleys” along the freeway as if its something horrible.

Well, part of it is that it is usually posted without context, suggesting that this is how residential town centers are. You’ve probably seen the repost-of-a-repost “why don’t kids want to play outside? this is the outside they created” memes. And yeah, it’s clearly a place most would rather visit than live. Maybe the truckstop-town is the ultimate evolution of the liminal space whilst guided by 1900s capitalism.

PS: you have been banned from /c/fuck_cars



Nice funny article, and it hits home as someone who has been around on small lenient websites that have grown up and on those that have grown down.

A fun point to highlight is that (one you have enough users for these issues to arise) it’s essentially illegal to have “REAL and TRUE™ free speech” in USA, or basically anywhere. And for a for-profit (rather than for-politics or for-ideals or niche small sites) then allowing ‘bad speech’ (for whatever societies consider bad) will lose potential earnings as you see in Level 3 and more.

If you’ve ever been on really liberal (as in, freedom) sites that don’t have a strict topic, even those that haven’t hit the critical mass that creates the legal troubles, they’re still generally dominated by horrible people that quickly make you value some degree of moderation or even censorship. Especially since those places are usually disproportionately filled with the people that get banned everywhere else.

With all due respect for the values of open dialogue and the importance of honest self-expression, I often like to have conversations without them getting constant hijacked by spammer bots, bad-faith flamers with no interest in dialogue, people mentally incapable of a simple sequitur conversation and outcasts trying to justify genocide or child abuse. So I see where ‘free speech’ people are coming from but they usually have no experience with the reality of which other people want that freedom even more and how intolerable they become when they find a safe haven to flood into.



Excellent find! It’s appears to be well-organized too, I love that.


I mean, I believe it but it’s a good habit to post sources in communities like this.

Also, what 10_0 said, they know it’s an exploitative platform, much more aware of it than most people.


comfytoScience...
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(I replied to the other comment in detail, you’re right, it was salt.)


comfytoScience...
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You were right to call it dubious, I was incorrectly informed. Salt is considered the major suspected culprit. A search for “japan diet stomach cancer” will give a bunch of studies and articles, I of course can’t verify them but it’s definitely a studied phenomenon. One study says: “Mortality ratios [from stomach cancer] are higher in northern Japan, particularly in areas facing the Japan Sea” while many in the south “show low rates”.


User got 3 days for “getting into fights with many users” global modlog/community modlog

They did have a couple of deleted comments that were correctly hit for rule 2 (although it’s still inconsistent moderation, seeing how worthless insults like this stay up) but being banned for arguing with many people? That’s beyond reasonable. This is a political thread, a bunch of users disagreed with a poorly-made but legitimate critique, and the person gets banned for replying to many of them?

Might as well say ‘this is an echo-chamber, controversial opinions are banned’. I agree, very disappointing, and not based in the site or community rules.


It’s a bit disappointing to ask “where did they get the percentage?” before immediately giving some uncited ones of your own: “individual nations, majority of them supports Ukraine (and US/EU etc)” and using an article from a conservative ‘think tank’ (wiki link) when complaining about propaganda.



I do appreciate how we could just repurpose old Thatcher memes for the former queen’s death.

[youtube link]/[invidious link]

[transcription for those who can't understand the accent]

Interviewer: [You don’t think she did any] good?

Woman: Not a bit of good. Not a bit. I’d put a stake through her heart, and garlic right on the end to make sure she’ll never come back.

Interviewer: Isn’t that a pretty horrible thing to say when her funeral is going on right now?

Woman: Too bad. Too bad.


(technically it's /games/ but that's a dumb title)

[I am not Canadian, but have lived for long times in countries with similar governance]

If we ignore moral/ethical arguments (which certainly can matter! but they shouldn’t be relied on, especially in political contexts), why would the government benefit from doing that?

I can only think of reputational reasons, which would be more easily or effectively achieved by doing other things. It’s one of those things which it would be nice to do, but I don’t think they will. The power plant companies have more influence than those that want affordable housing.


It’s simplistic to arbitrarily brand an entire ‘social liberal’ government of being of the same [bourgeois?] class, to the point where it’s often untrue even if the result is the same. Many of the politicians don’t really benefit from homeless people existing.

I’d say a more accurate statement is that due to the interrelation of economics and political governance, they’re beholden to the capitalist class, and therefore are pressured to accommodate. An important distinction is that this doesn’t suggest a ‘well what if we had politicians from our class instead?’ line of thinking.


Xonotic, STK and 0 A.D. have been my main 3. They’re pretty fun offline too.


comfytoScience...
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I’ve heard (anecdotally) that the Japanese diet needs to watch for high vinegar (salt, see replies) leading to stomach cancers, but otherwise an excellent diet. And you gotta love raw fish and miso!


Please the report feature to bring up troublesome users (or if really necessary, the lemmy.ml community), this community is for the software called Lemmy.


I think this is a really good chain of logic!

Not particularly. It’s literally guilt by association.

They make a good point about defederation not letting us ban them and therefore it shouldn’t be seen as a protection, but that user was federated with us for a long time and wasn’t banned. There were opportunities and the moderation team didn’t choose to. So I don’t think there’s an implicit ban-evasion element on a personal level, they were tolerated and if I remember correctly the defederation was due to antagonistic user interactions between the communities like vote brigading and troll accounts.

I wouldn’t be against the user being banned here for things like shilling and some of their comments here. But defederation and their activities elsewhere have nothing to do with it.


I don’t see the relevance of lemmy.ml being federated. That wouldn’t make it ok. If another community we federate with tolerated a couple of neonazis then that doesn’t make those users ok because we find the platform as a whole tolerable to federate with.

I think you have a valid point with the shilling. I agree with you there. It’s not bigotry in itself but it is abusing this forum to promote anti-egalitarian intolerance (which is undeniably and inevitably what that platform primarily hosts, regardless of its admin’s claims of platform neutrality). Plugging wolfballs is contrary to the stated purpose of this platform, and an unlikely but possible gateway to it gaining dangerous popularity. That is something they are doing here on their account, and I would support the rules being updated to ban it.


I don’t think fascism can be described as those behaviors, it’s an ideology.

Those two behaviors you described aren’t in isolation. Can’t a meme be fascist propaganda? Can’t a meme attempt to dehumanize or justify violence without calling for it? Is fascism only dangerous when it reaches the point of open violence?

I don’t agree with the line of reasoning that ‘wolfballs is fascist’, I think that’s ignorant of what fascism is and why non-fascism can also be horrible, but I don’t think the ‘it’s just memes’ argument is helpful.


It’s counterproductive to conflate racism, homophobia and transphobia with fascism.

They’re all disgusting behaviors. Make no mistake, they’re all mindless, anti-social, and dangerous. However lumping them into the term fascism trivializes what makes fascism in particular dangerous or appealing to its audience, it falsely suggests that fascism without those traits, a national fascism rather than a racial fascism (which is indeed what some fascists propose) isn’t reprehensible, and makes people who have seen a defintion of fascism think it’s just an ignorant slur just like calling any queer person a liberal, which will make people just not listen.

You don’t have to be one to be the other. They’re all horrible. Don’t pretend their problem is being a fascist; their problem is being a racist anti-queer idiot.


Well, how do the admins here define ‘leftist’?

That’s actually a major part of my post. We can’t recommend a better idea without knowing your own definition because ‘leftist’ is just so ambiguous. That’s why it’s a problem. If I know how you define it, I can suggest a few alternatives.


That’s an appropriate way to respond to a comment starting with “Imagine if you will”.


comfytoMemesIIIIIL
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However people who saw the original comic and saw the progressive edits that gradually became more and more abstract would have often understood. Like many imageboard memes, it was an in-joke.


Hmm, free vpn services could be an option too, depending on use-case. I wouldn’t personally trust one for privacy/security purposes, but as a mere geolocation proxy it may be appropriate.


I don’t see how that’s relevant here. I’m sure you do hear people who say that dumb junk, but it would be nice to not bring up their generic junk on a specific informative post. It gets in the way of discussion of the actual post content.


I think it could be an opportunity to clarify some of the rules. I’ve made a post on /c/meta about clarification of the term ‘leftist’ for example, because the vagueness can easily lead to reasonable, avoidable conflict.


comfytoMemesIIIIIL
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Spoiler: The original is this comic.


And what if some anarchists here were uncomfortable about you hanging around lemmygrad and insulting them over there? Would it be appropriate for a mod here to ban you because you were associated with a community which has been known to make many leftists here uncomfortable?

The bottom line is you’re still able to create civil, unoffensive and constructive conversation here, despite doing things elsewhere that will make people here uncomfortable.


I hear news of a train strike upcoming in the USA, how does pro-car culture affect that?
Open question, but here's my reason for asking: I'm aware that the UK [temporarily halted] and Australia also have active train strikes that affect travel. Since the trains are quite widely used by citizens on their ways to and from work, the strikes inevitably make many of the affected people angry due to the inconvenience. So I wonder if USA's notorious anti-public transport norms mean that a train strike will become more of a commercial issue than a personal issue. There has already been concerned industry organizations like the fertilizer one urging the government to make the striking illegal, do you foresee any important anger among the general population over the strikes?

What bad habits of reddit’s userbase have you noticed on Lemmy sites?
# NO POLITICS. Almost inevitably, most of the people joining Lemmy instances are former-reddit posters those who consider it a 'reddit clone' as opposed to an independent link aggregator site. This can be seen in the most popular communities (simply recreations of existing reddit subreddits), terminology (people saying 'sublemmies' or 'subs') and most importantly, habits. What social habits have you seen that are commonplace on reddit but should really be discouraged among users moving to here?

Implement light and dark theme by defautl
A while back I made a light and a dark theme for lemmygrad.ml. Unfortunately, due to [current code restrictions](https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy-ui/issues/694), a custom selected instance theme doesn't have a light and dark mode. As suggested by Nutomic, I would like to request that the new themes replace the litely and darkly files so that the red theme can default according to browser preferences. I recognize that this may be hacky and might need to be reapplied on code updates, but it seems like the best solutions. If needed (I don't think it is), the original litely and darkly themes can be renamed to litely-green and darkly-green to keep them available. ([@muad_dibber@lemmygrad.ml](https://lemmygrad.ml/u/muad_dibber) )

The word ‘leftist’ in the instance description should be replaced with something more specific
"Leftist" is not a helpful label here; its meaning changes internationally and personally. It was always vaguely defined and just became more vague and misused for the past two centuries. This is an issue because: 1) It leads to unresolvable persistent conflicts over what is leftist and what isn't, and therefore who is welcome here and who isn't. 2) The admins' definition appears to be different from some very common definitions. In the post ['What is lemmy.ml?'](https://lemmy.ml/post/70280), they imply that a 'liberal instance' is 'something that [lemmy.ml] is not'. This will at best lead to repeated rejection of people who consider themselves 'leftist' but whom many users do not (an annoying and useless exercise for everyone involved), or at worse subversion by people who think they've found home and need to defend it against 'extremists'. Maybe consider *'anti-capitalist'* or *'socialist'* as less ambiguous terms, assuming that is what you meant. This will avoid users who identify as leftists mistakenly signing up and defending the place against those it is explicitly made for. *As a demonstration of the wide range of political positions reasonably considered by people to be 'leftist', here is [the Wikipedia article for 'Leftism'](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leftism). Common definitions include ''pro-egalitarianism'', ''liberalism'' and various 'progressive' social rights movements.*

If a city were designed around public transport, what would still require private motor vehicles?
I've limited the scope of this question to a dense city, although you're free to explore further if you want. Let's assume a country designs a new planned city, with an emphasis on avoiding private motor vehicles like cars and trucks. Would any tasks still require private motor vehicles, such as the moving of heavy goods? It's easy to look at current society and see 'well we'd need a truck to deliver furniture to office buildings, or moving products to stores', but will a planned city be able to avoid this?

An iceberg list compiled by /leftypol/. While a few of these are (true to the format,) sensationalist or tenuous, most are real events.

Context: The Supreme Court of the USA made a very controversial decisions. Someone here proposes that the solution is to "Vote." Most obviously, as pointed out, the people making the decisions aren't subject to any effects of voting until they step down or die. At best, it only determines which party nominates a replacement when one dies. Secondly, appealing to the last 6 years makes no sense when the federal government has been ruled by BOTH the only two viable federal parties in that period. Vote for who? Biden? What was the alternative? Finally, percentage of population isn't how voting in USA works (both Bush (2000 election) and Trump lost the popular vote) and people often choose based on multiple policies and not just how they feel about abortion.

Don't worry, it's utterly abandoned.

Suggestion: Have admins commandeer this community and add a useful sidebar
Additionally, the admins should determine a policy for commandeering abandoned communities. I know some websites have a policy where if no staff log in in [x] weeks, any user is allowed to request moderation. Maybe I should make another post about that. This in particular is an excellent example. The only staff member, [@Eli@lemmygrad.ml](https://lemmygrad.ml/u/Eli), made this community, made (and deleted) two posts, and apparently hasn't done anything else for 3 years. This is an important community to the site and deserves attention. As it stands, the sidebar is useless. It could explain the difference between Lemmygrad and the Lemmy software, link to better communities for contacting the devs for feature requests, give advice for people asking questions, link to relevant chatrooms if any, that kind of stuff. This preventative assistance helps prevent the place getting filled with useless, redundant or off-topic questions.


I was looking at the Communities list, and noticing a few had no icon, I set out to design a few proposals, including a way to have different icons for Lemmy, Meta and Announcements. At that point I realized, lemmy.ml has no distinct logo. The admins have rightfully emphasized that lemmy.ml is not Lemmy, and shouldn't be considered 'The Official' instance. I think it's important to add some clear distinction to this instance. 1) The title Look at any page, top right. It says Lemmy, not lemmy.ml. Look at the page header. It says Lemmy, not lemmy.ml. It's understandable how some people might think this website is *the* Lemmy. Other instances change this, this one didn't. This is probably a simple change that can and should be done immediately. 2) The logo This change takes slightly more design and effort. Ideally we could mix the two defining aspects of this instance: 'leftist' and 'FOSS'. Leftist is easy, just make the lemmy a little bit pink/red. FOSS is harder to incorporate without ruining the logo, maybe a terminal underscore to the right of the lemmy, or give it some glasses to symbolize technology enthusiast culture.
8

Article: https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/Laborwave > communism came from war Wait 'til you hear about [every country-wide ideology].

I would definitely recommend viewing some of the other videos on that channel, whichever titles take your interest.


An exploration of the Lemmys, for discussion
##### What is this post? A quick and dirty look into Lemmy instances, their size and interactions, and some insights. ##### Disclaimers * I AM NOT AN EXPERT OR WITNESS: I only started using Lemmy in March 2022. Lemmy was around for around 3 years before that. I am not a developer or instance owner. * I DID NOT GO AND TALK TO PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND THIS STUFF: This is just me exploring for fun and starting a conversation. This is not a proper study. Consider telling any one who links you to this page as if it's an expert historical account that I called them an idiot. * This is limited by my experience and my searching, it's not comprehensive. If someone made a dark instance, I probably won't find it. If there's some deep lore, I probably don't know it. Thanks to https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list for many of these stats. ##### Alright, Now for the casual rambling. Organic posting started on lemmy.ml from April 2019 so I will consider that the start of Lemmy as a service (my understanding is that lemmy.ml is the oldest non-dev instance) As of now (May 2022) AFAIK, the Lemmy-based sites with the most **total user comments** are: - hexbear.net (2.5M) - lemmy.ml (114K) - lemmygrad.ml (105K) - bakchodi.org (42K) - wolfballs.com (15K) - szmer.info (15K) - feddit.de (3K) - *[dev instances ignored]* - sopuli.xyz (1504) - lemmy.eus (1262) - lemmy.ca (974) The count of **users active in the last month** is similar: - hexbear.net (unlisted, [approx. 1.3K in the last 14 days](https://www.hexbear.net/post/195720)) - lemmygrad.ml (508) - lemmy.ml (474) - bakchodi.org (286) - szmer.info (65) - feddit.it (51) - sopuli.xyz (31) - wolfballs.com (29) - feddit.de (29) - lemmy.ca (17) My guess is that the difference at the bottom of the list is due to highly federated instances spreading their user comments over many instances with more activity, and also due to some instances peaking a few months ago and then declining. For those new to user statistics, you'll notice that popularity usually tends to be exponential: more popular things get more popular. ### What was that first one? Hexbear? Two of the sites listed there, Hexbear (aka. chapo.chat) and Bakchodi, do not federate. They are not part of the Fediverse, but they are using Lemmy. Hexbear is actually running their own *fork* of Lemmy. In that sense it reminds me of Gab, another huge island fork, but only due to size and isolation. While I can't find an admin statement, various Hexbear Gitea issues from 2020 and this comment from December 2021 ["We’re working on bringing Lemmy up to speed with some of the features our “fork” (it’s more of a rewrite) has. When that’s ready we’ll switch to that which will already have federation ready for us."](https://www.hexbear.net/post/163415/comment/2003658) and this from Feb 2022 ["The only issue is that [Hexbear] doesn’t support federation for semi-technical reasons (happy to explain), but that’s going to be fixed (later this year maybe)?"](https://www.hexbear.net/post/174049/comment/2150060) indicate Hexbear is open to the idea but unready ([this 2020 comment](https://www.hexbear.net/post/23488/comment/175031) even states they chose Lemmy precisely because of its federation goal), and Bakchodi appear to have just not set any up (the admin states "Federation is not functional as of now." in a post and nothing more). Contrast both against Gab who cited abuse/security issues and lack of local federation users for their voluntary removal of existing federation. Another point regarding Hexbear and Bakchodi is that they are continuations of existing popular communities: I believe that Hexbear is a continuation of reddit's banned subreddit /r/ChapoTrapHouse, and Bakchodi is a continuation of the banned /r/chodi (which I believe was banned around the same time as /r/GenZedong's quarantining caused a mass exodus to https://lemmygrad.ml/c/genzedong ). To the best of my knowledge, lemmy.ml, most of lemmygrad, wolfballs and szmer are new original sites rather than an existing active community migrating as a mass. ### Connections Most instances are connected into the Fediverse. Hexbear and Bakchodi appears to be the only active non-trivial instances that don't federate. Due to the political environment of the internet today and the content currently on Lemmy, I personally think it makes sense to classify the current federation networks of Lemmy instances into four loose groups: - socialist 'left': Primarily value socialism and/or anarchism, and related topics. Generally explicit about their instance's political alignment. The largest group. Examples are lemmy.ml, lemmygrad.ml, midwest.social, and would include hexbear.net if it were connected. - liberalist 'right': Primarily value freedom of speech and other liberty. While none yet are e~~xplicitly politically-biased through administration~~[[correction]](https://lemmy.ml/post/287918/comment/193438), they do overwhelmingly have users with views typical of the American 'right-wing' as an inevitable result of where they are promoted, the ideas only they tolerate and the existing posts. Examples are wolfballs.com and exploding-heads.com. - general open: Overall mainstream OR diverse political views, will generally tolerate political instances on both sides of the above divide. Often national instances or 'general-purpose'. mander.xyz is an overt example, gtio.io is also an example. lotide.fbxl.net would be an example, but it's a lotide instance rather than Lemmy. - anti-intolerant: Primarily value friendliness and inclusivity, and so will readily block instances that tolerate intolerance, such as those in the liberalist 'right' category and potentially those further in the socialist 'left' category. An example might be sopuli.xyz. These are all politically determined, as unlike Mastodon and Pleroma there don't tend to be any instances based around controversial single topics or around graphic content that causes instances to defederate. I thought there were more instances that blocked both sides of the 'left'/'right' divide, but they don't seem to exist yet (which is a good sign) beyond lemmy.rollenspiel.monster. It is also worth mentioning that lemmy.ml has blocked some instances due to abuse rather than any cultural disagreement. The first two of the four categories are by far the most popular, even if not the most numerous in instances, probably due to them picking up users being kicked out of reddit and reddit alternatives as they block more and more political subreddits or become unsavory. The earlier kicking of many 'harassment' subreddits from reddit around 2015 lead to many 'right-wing' users to populate Voat and then later bannings lead to communities.win becoming popular, which I believe explains why Lemmy doesn't yet have a strong influx of users who align politically with those banned subreddits and more-so with recently-banned communist subreddits (the core developers' political views and lemmy.ml's reputation may have impacted people moving to instances named after Lemmy or considering hosting new instances, but I suspect it wouldn't affect people who were invited to a place called Wolfballs). Interestingly, there is already a mirror instance that reposts from reddit: goldandblack.us.to ##### Growth [fediverse.observer](https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/stats) has some stats. Ignoring the huge outliers in the middle, there has been a jump in growth in the past two months which I would mostly attribute to the influx to [lemmygrad.ml wow look at that second graph](https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/lemmygrad.ml) and the launch of unfederated-but-included bakchodi. Apart from that, there has been a remarkably consistent growth in all the active instances. That's a good sign that this group of communities could last a while. ##### Some concluding thoughts, with regards to reddit As someone who hasn't really used reddit in many years, I like to promote the view of us being independent, growing our own culture, our own norms and not merely aiming to mirror the same shallow emptiness. The bottom line is, we grow a lot when reddit shuts a place down, and as you can see in some of those stats, growth creates more potential for growth. I think it's important to think about what habits we see now both here and there that we want to encourage, and which habits we don't. Think about what should each community tolerate and reject and enforce (and make no mistake, that answer differs depending on purpose and audience!) and how do we redirect people in the wrong places or teach those who are mistaken? (protip: typing these things out each time is very dumb! That's why we invented FAQ pages!) What struggles did Mastodon face as they started to grow more and more? Parts of reddit and similar groups will continue to arrive. Look at [this list of communities that used to be allowed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversial_Reddit_communities): it started off with the very blatant controversies like sexualizing minors, moved on to open blatant racism-focused places that conducted raids, and now they're at banning subreddits about a US (former) president and pro-China memes. Now that Lemmy has established itself as the home of some of the most recently banned communities, I personally think it's only a matter of time before reddit pops off a few more communities as they face pressure from media flak, investors or other major influences, and we should prepare for how to handle this: make potentially targeted communities aware that we exist before an incident, and make sure communities have a clear set of rules and guidelines written for the people that come in expecting this to be reddit again. I think this is an opportunity to fix the things we don't want repeated.


Lemmy users, what do YOU dislike about Musk?
For me, its the celebrityism taking credit for the work of others, the encouragement of worker abuse and the faux-philanthropist façade pretending to be a benevolent savior.
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What are some interesting/useful home automation and customization ideas?
Of course given that this is posted to lemmy.ml, I'm expecting a bias towards FOSS/etc. projects like Mycroft AI or towards DIY projects over Amazon and Google microphones and insecure IoT junk, but still list those other ideas regardless as the idea itself can be useful or even replicated with other tools. DIY and technical projects like self-hosted tools and scripts are more than welcome! I know this topic is in a myriad of clickbait articles but I would like a different perspective on it. And remember: don't act surprised when the haxxors own your lightbulbs!

Thoughts on 'Manufacturing Consent’s interesting approach to conspiracy in its Propaganda Model?
Does anyone remember this famous viral video?: ["This is extremely dangerous to our democracy"](https://youtube.com/watch?v=_fHfgU8oMSo). A creepy montage of a wide range of local channels repeating the same message, reminiscent of *1984* and other dystopias. For those who haven't read it (just download free copies online),[ *Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent) by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky (1988, with revisions) is a book which proposed a propaganda model explaining the trends and behaviors of the US mass media system, not just how they are influenced by government but even more how economic and social influences promote this behavior without overt coercion or state censorship. It uses a variety of major historical examples, and later editions preface with discussions of the increasing centralization/consolidation of media companies and their move to the internet. It's an excellent and influential book, and an Orwell Award winner. ##### But about *CONSPIRACY* A conspiracy is when participants have a secret *plan* or *agreement* to some harmful or illegal purpose[[wiki]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy), such as the [Business Plot (1933)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot) by various corporations and [COINTELPRO](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO) by the FBI. In *Manufacturing Consent*, the creators explicitly declare that their model does not rely on conspiratorial reasoning: that the propagandist patterns of mass media are all a result of an explicit conspiracy which all the major perpetrators are co-operating with. Instead, they argue that a variety of uncoordinated but systematic external factors create a pressure for media to encourage and discourage certain types of content. They define and justify five main 'filters' that determine the content we see: - **Size, ownership, and profit orientation of dominant media outlets**: they must cater to the financial interests of the owners such as corporations and controlling investors. - **Advertising**: almost all revenue needed for them to *survive* comes from advertising, so media must cater to advertiser's political and economic desires. - **Sourcing mass media news**: larger and more aligned media outlets get special access to many routine news sources like government announcements and large organizations in a mutual benefit situation. Other news sources are more expensive and risky to access by nature, and the large routine ones can arbitrarily exclude media publishers they don't like, especially those non-mainstream. This encourages mainstream media to seek those routine sources, creating a bias in what facts they receive. - **Flak**: legal, social or reputational harassment is expensive and damages advertising revenue. It is often conducted by powerful, private influence groups like think tanks. Even if not explicitly a conspiracy, they often still align incidentally. This threat to media outlets deters reporting certain facts or opinions - **National enemies**: during the Cold War, anti-communism created a social filter that not only affected communism, but rather anything considered remotely related such as socially-progressive policies, civil rights, and being opposed to the invasion in Vietnam, along with impacts on how news criticized Nicaragua's democratic elections while unanimously legitimizing El Salvador's extreme violent repression and corruption as democratic. After the fall of the USSR, this was replaced with the War on Terror as the major social control mechanism, affecting reporting on the recent conflicts in the Middle East. (more quick explanation and justification for those who haven't yet read the book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_model ) The point of that list being, the mass media organizations, government, think tanks and advertisers all have their own motivations and don't ***require*** a conspiracy or overt government coercion to cause the censorship and propaganda they create. They *individually* have agendas and abuse their power or profit or influence, but the model's creators argue that there is no need to blame a real conspiracy for this behavior. An interesting side effect is that these induce self-censorship and a bias in sources where the writers usually haven't been told not to write about something, it's simply not economically viable and discouraged independently by each large media outlet, leading to an unorganized but systematic system of propaganda that discourages criticism of the state and of major businesses. What are your thoughts on this? Do you believe it's justified to claim the mass media's biases largely aren't conspiratorial, or would you debate otherwise? Do you think this is comparable to the alt-right concept of "Deep State" or that DS theory implies the hidden shadow conspiracy that this denounces?

How vulnerable is the Fediverse to the Embrace, Extend, Extinguish strategy, and what can be done to counter it?
Related question: ["Can the Fediverse fall to ruling class / corporate control?"](https://lemmy.ml/post/245772) For those who don't know about EEE, I highly recommend reading at least [the Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish), which includes many examples of Microsoft intentionally trying to do it to open standards like CSS and Java. As an open standard with [relatively few developers](https://lemmy.ml/post/245772/comment/169002), most part-time/casual, spread over many applications, ActivityPub seems like an inevitable target once as it continues to grow. Take a hypothetical example where Elon Musk owning Twitter continues to cause a sustained rush to Mastodon, causing one of Google/Microsoft/Facebook/Twitter to use their large amount of organized resources to clone Mastodon's software, rebrand it, fix the most popular issues in the to-do list, make the server more efficient to host, allow bridging to Twitter (if it's Twitter making it), host it on their fast infrastructure, hire professional moderators and add many of the denied feature requests for making it more Twitter-like. With those companies' capital and established tech teams, most or all of those can be done rapidly. So, I predict if they did, many users and even some hosts would be encouraged to use this extended 'better' software or it may even be advertised and popularized as the simplest, easiest and fastest option, centralizing the bulk of ActivityPub users. They can then use this dominant position to extend ActivityPub in various ways, making various competitors incompatible and increasingly unable to federate. Extend beyond Fediverse competitors' reach, and extinguish them by excluding them from a gradually closing garden filled with activity and popular content producers. Sure, it won't affect the more passionate 'early adopters' here as much who are more than merely annoyed by centralized services, but it's an issue that could potentially prevent these alternatives from gaining a popular audience among the more mainstream crowd who would enjoy the benefits provided it didn't require much sacrifice. An interesting (even if not truly qualifying) example is Gab, a Mastodon fork aimed at an alt-right audience. I recall on Fediverse stats sites, there were a few tiny pods of Gab instances and a small but real network of federating Pleroma and Mastodon instances. I found a comment made over a year ago saying *"Gab ripped their federation code a while ago. Also, when they were federating, they never cared much about properly federating. They used federation as an argument to switching platforms but they didn't care about it."* and some users on a Pleroma instance that formerly federated with Gab was mocking them as recent as one hour ago as *"quit[ting] the fedi because they were getting made fun of [by actual free speech platform users]"*. Gab seemingly embraced the concept, unintentionally, of Embrace and Extend and then privatizing, although with (I assert) no intent nor capacity to extinguish. But what if they did have that intent, either financially or politically? What if they were a *purely* profit-driven project that saw the Fedis as a threat? ##### How can these projects counter EEE? I don't think outpacing is a feasible approach, due to constraints that these non-profit, anti-exploitative projects are bound by. *note: This does work both ways, to a degree, in that for-profit projects will need to have annoying things like ads or dodgy manipulative practices to survive unless they want to run at a significant loss, as an investment. I'm not sure how much most people care about those normalized annoyances, so I don't think that should be relied on. FOSS projects aren't well-known for being successful in the mainstream through their purity and ideals.* Boycotting and ostracization (like, to generalize, Mastodon with Gab, then Gab with Pleroma) might be effective so long as they don't gain an independent dominance through bringing more external users and continuing to dilute the values of the Fediverse. But if their new platform becomes more productive and fun then the Fediverse, then the Fediverse will remain only a niche. I don't have faith in a legal solution, but that is my naïve view, I don't know enough about anti-competitive laws, especially internationally. I'm interested to hear what approaches there might be to what I see as a potential and increasingly imminent threat. Links to existing conversations are welcome too: no need to invent the wheel for me ;)

What are some examples of alliances/unions/etc. of Fediverse instances?
What are some examples of grouping in the Fediverse? This question is in response to a post asking about how to stop corporate dominance in the Fediverse, but unrelated examples are more than welcome. One example is a (defunct?) alliance between 3 national Peertube instances where they agreed to backup each others databases and have similar moderation rules. It would be interesting to see if there's any agreements between instances to block certain instances, like corporate-run (pawoo) or alt-tech (gab) beyond merely using a shared blocklist.

[meta] Is five stickied posts too many?
I definitely see the merit in having two or three, since this is a major landing spot of reddit refugees who would benefit from an introduction such as both the 2nd and 3rd posts, but the 4th is not really helpful despite being funny, apart from those chat links which should be in the sidebar rather than a random post, and the 5th is literally empty, even if polite.
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Technically, I think there are an infinite amount of correct answers.

What are the benefits of federation between different site types? (e.g. Friendica, PeerTube)
Note: in hindsight, half of this post is answering my own questions as I explore this rarer side of federation, but there are still some remaining questions which I have highlighted. ##### Introduction This post is created on lemmy.ml. The benefits of federating this post to other Lemmy instances is immediately obvious, since they can use most or all of the site features to read it as intended and interact (voting, replying, reporting, saving, cross-posting or browsing and subscribing to fediverse@lemmy.ml). There is also intuitive benefit in being able to federate with other link aggregators such as lotide and Prismo instances. All these sites have the same basic interface of link-posting, text-posting, voting, commenting and voting on comments. The base format is very compatible, even if extra features are not. I wouldn't be surprised if Lemmy and lotide form a dynamic similar to Mastodon and Pleroma, two microblogging services which again have an intuitive base compatibility. ##### But what about different types? What are the benefits of, for example, making Lemmy federate with Mastodon, Friendica or PeerTube? One approach to answering that is asking what cross-interaction is already possible, like some posts in [!feditolemmy](https://lemmy.ml/c/feditolemmy) which were posted from Friendica. This [nerdica.net post](https://nerdica.net/display/a85d7459-9262-6029-68aa-550236192028) which is [also replicated on !fediverse](https://lemmy.ml/post/238040) shows a conversation in replies between a few Lemmy instances and a Friendica account, and demonstrates the clear analogue of our communities and their forums, and of our votes and their likes (it's just a test ;) ) ![](https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/30f19028-f625-451b-a68f-b2c3297c3d8d.png) So Friendica posts federating to Lemmy makes reasonable sense. I'm not sure about the opposite. I guess their posts are analogous to our text posts or text & link posts, so it might be possible to render their forums as browsable communities here. **Question 1: Does my Lemmy account browsing and making new posts on Friendica forums make sense?** Or will the federation only make sense for enabling Lemmy to aggregate Friendica posts and allowing cross-rating and cross-commenting? Note: I found [this Friendica forum on Lemmy](https://lemmy.ml/c/retrocomputing@nerdica.net), which was properly interpreted as a community instead of a user by Lemmy, but posts aren't replicating yet. I'm guessing it's a base for future completion to allow further cross-integration. Friendica does not appear to be able to browse Lemmy users or communities yet. I also assume microblogging sites like Mastodon and Pleroma, along with the Prismo link aggregator, can use hashtags as an analogy for communities. While a post on those sites can belong to multiple tags, Lemmy can imitate this with crossposting in multiple communities. Is this reasonable? PeerTube is where I get more confused, and [I'm not alone](https://lemmy.ml/post/154977/). As a reply there mentioned, we can view a PeerTube user account, such as https://lemmy.ml/u/thelinuxexperiment@tilvids.com and https://lemmy.ml/c/h3h3productions@h3h3.club , although it doesn't seem to work for framatube.org. However the interfaces of Lemmy and PeerTube are radically different, as PeerTube is foremost a video hosting site and Lemmy is a link aggregator. I think it's fair to assert that a Lemmy post cannot be displayed on a PeerTube instance without hacks no-one wants, which leaves PeerTube->Lemmy posting, and mutual liking/commenting/reporting/etc.. A PeerTube video can be adapted as a link post in Lemmy. I'm not certain how a PeerTube upload would signal which communities it should be posted to in Lemmy, but there are reasonable options like an extra field in the upload settings, or a link in the description. **Question 2: Is there a plan to have anything more than PeerTube creating link posts in Lemmy communities with federation between comment sections?** Trying to learn the current situation in order to ask good questions has taught me a lot, I was in a mindset that we had to be able to make posts on other sites in order to usefully federate, when that isn't really our role as a link aggregator site. Media sites can usefully post to here with federated voting and comment sections.


On the recuperation of /r/antiwork
A bit of a passionless rant about the recuperation of /r/antiwork: I don't even consider myself an anarchist and I'm annoyed. Having visited the place a few years ago (2017?) to see what it was, the place was quite clearly as the name suggested: against the current concept of work. Not anti-labor (generally), but certainly anti-work. Today, we're seeing posts like this gain popularity (part of a screencap posted to the sub, 700+ rating currently) ![](https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/0456c855-1d49-4335-bcc2-420ba64e7722.png) And I can understand if that's a naïve attempt at pitching or pandering to an audience not familiar with the nuance of 'work', 'job' and 'labor'. But that's not the case here. After going through the comments, sorted by best, it takes the 7th reply to point out that the sidebar **explicitly and unambigously** says, at the top: > "A subreddit for those who want to end work, are curious about ending work, want to get the most out of a work-free life, want more information on anti-work ideas [...]" and another 7 replies to find this chain with some OP replies: ![](https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/c933c803-806b-423b-83c4-5d0129154af6.png) and then soon this one, marked with the controversial sign: ![](https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/e75468b6-b49f-4dca-9c0a-d31566da39f4.png) When you get to a stage where *stating the absolute basic theme of a community* is considered controversial, it's a tragedy. This is an example of [recuperation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recuperation_(politics)). I honestly think the recuperation was more organic than forced or conspiratorial, caused due to the sudden rush in size by enthused reformists rationalizing the name rather than any intentional agenda. This has happened to other sites and subcultures too, where a sudden and largely unopposed rise in popularity dilutes the original community and its unique qualities. A wide range of anti-capitalist subreddits seem to have come closer and closer into a homogeneous paste of (often the exact same!) twitter screencaps repeating fallacious or vapid 'gotcha' jokes and ragebaits. And I don't want to see the same happen here.



[Feb 2022] Propaganda clean-up of PatFront stickers in Illinois
There are a few antifa orgs with online presence, such as the one linked above and Torch Network, that keep tabs on this group and post thorough dox identifying many of its members. (its membership remains stagnant around 200-250 [according to its leader](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/28/leaked-online-chats-white-nationalist-patriot-front) in leaked internal communications) Most of their activities are limited to propagandic stunts to try and gain attention: flash mob demonstrations, attempting to march alongside irrelevant right-wing protests, petty vandalism of memorials and putting up stickers. Like culture jamming minus the whole culture part. This article shows a right-watch group in action, quickly removing propaganda before sunrise and preventing the advertisement of this propaganda organization.

Proposal: Red variation of default themes
Hi, I think lemmygrad.ml should use variations of the default light/dark themes with red accents instead of green. - Keeping the layout similar yet colors distinct from other instances (especially lemmy.ml) makes it clear that you are on the same kind of site but a different instance, and that this one is very much red - This is an easy fix to make (changing a few color codes in the .css files)
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Hi! Lemmy's official software site has a list of public instances and I noticed that slrpnk.net isn't included. https://join-lemmy.org/instances I think that this site could gain long-term exposure to more potential users by asking the site admins to add this instance to that list.
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