Then you haven’t been paying attention. US instigated the sanctions and the whole economic war. Europe was initially reluctant, but went along in the end.
Please explain to me the logic of EU sabotaging its own economy in response to the war in Ukraine. The sanctions have had pretty much no effect on Russia. In Particular, Russia is making record profit from energy sales right now.
The only country that benefits from Eurozone collapsing economically is the US. Much of European industry is already moving to US, there’s a capital flight from Europe to US, and Europe is now dependent on expensive LNG coming from US. The only thing this fiasco achieved was to turn Europe into a vassal state of the US.
Tanking European economy and condemning millions of people to horrific conditions this winter does absolutely nothing to help Ukraine. Russia is making record profits from energy exports today.
The rise in energy prices more than made up for any lost sales to Europe. Also, Russia is still exporting lots of gas to Europe via China, India, and Saudi Arabia. The only difference is that these countries now charge Europe a markup.
Also, Russia has pipelines to China and building more pipelines as we speak.
You have absolutely no clue regarding the subject you’re attempting to debate.
The help for Ukraine comes in different forms. Seems you didn’t read the sources. Russia may be making some money right now because of the high energy prices, but that is not going to last.
It quite obviously will. China’s industry is growing along with BRI. All the industry that’s moving out of Europe will go to Asia and use Russian gas. Again, this isn’t rocket science and it’s amazing that people don’t get this. The articles you linked are written for gullible people who don’t understand how economy or energy markets work globally.
Also the energy sector is not the only things that is affected by the sanctions. A lot more industries and companies have left the country. What makes things harder to measure, is the lack of valid statistics from Russia itself.
Literally zero evidence for the claim that western industry leaving Russia has any negative impact. All it does is create room domestic industry and companies from friendly countries like China and India. If sanctions failed to produce any effect initially, it’s obvious they will only have less effect going forward.
Ah. The usual personal signature at the end. Please tell me how those stats and sources are invalid, and provide better ones instead of insults.
Hope you now have a better understanding of the errors in your sources.
Ph.D. of energy geopolitics and markets, university professor… all citing their sources. What kind of source do you accept as valid if these are not enough? Please, provide them.
The effects are here already. It’s absurd to think China and India can replace Europe on the amount of exports. Is there any proof for your claims? I have seen only words.
LMAO pretty telling how all the numbers are from May, weird how it fails to mention that inflation has been dropping rapidly in Russia, and prices for necessities have been falling
This is precisely my point regarding sanctions. They create an initial shock and then the economy adjusts. There is no instance I’m aware of where western sanctions led to regime change that I’m aware of. Venezuela, DPRK, and Iran are all small countries managing to cope with western sanctions. It’s absolute idiocy to think Russia would not.
Meanwhile, what really matters is the relative economic shock to Russia and the west. Right now the economy in the west is doing far war than in Russia. The obvious reason being that Russia is secure for food, energy, and manufacturing while the west is not.
Although EU is so deep in US ass that it’s performing haruspice on US entrails to guess the wishes of its master even without direct orders, but not even such toadies would betray their countries like this without some strong pressure.
Way to move the goalposts, nobody was mentioning anything about “people’s wishes”.
Also, seems that perspective of huge crisis is starting to get through the thick fog of decades of frenzied imperialist propaganda even in the imperial core, so USA also had to blow up the pipes to make fait accompli in case of european governments caving to the wishes of their people to not fell flat on face in worst crisis in decades, instead of licking the colon of USA just so that US oligarchy might fatten itself even more.
@Ephera@yogthos it doesn’t really matter if that’s what representative democracies “wanted” sanctions are immoral not for the least but because it adversely effects nearly everyone save perhaps the politicians themselves. Particularly harmful to the working class no matter which nation they reside in on each side.
Well, personally I’d rather throw the world economy under a bus than sit back and relax as some psychopath has millions of innocent people slaughtered.
This may not be rational by some definition, this may not be behaviour even I would expect from a nation. But I don’t need to fucking be told that the schoolyard bully peer-pressured us into doing this when I’m allowed to vote and would have preferred even stronger sanctions.
Then you haven’t been paying attention. US instigated the sanctions and the whole economic war. Europe was initially reluctant, but went along in the end.
You mean after Russia attacked Ukraine? Again, I certainly do not feel like we needed instigation from the US for that.
Please explain to me the logic of EU sabotaging its own economy in response to the war in Ukraine. The sanctions have had pretty much no effect on Russia. In Particular, Russia is making record profit from energy sales right now.
The only country that benefits from Eurozone collapsing economically is the US. Much of European industry is already moving to US, there’s a capital flight from Europe to US, and Europe is now dependent on expensive LNG coming from US. The only thing this fiasco achieved was to turn Europe into a vassal state of the US.
So, you believe we’re not stupid enough to crash our economy on our own, but are stupid enough to let the US convince us?
I believe that without pressure from US, Europe would’ve made better choices.
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quite obviously false
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@yogthos @varjolintu Europe doesn’t make choices, only individuals make choices.
@fu
Wow.
Pretty heavy ideological discourse there…
Ever heard of alienation ?
@lienrag is that like a country on some other planet? 😉
Yes.
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Tanking European economy and condemning millions of people to horrific conditions this winter does absolutely nothing to help Ukraine. Russia is making record profits from energy exports today.
The rise in energy prices more than made up for any lost sales to Europe. Also, Russia is still exporting lots of gas to Europe via China, India, and Saudi Arabia. The only difference is that these countries now charge Europe a markup.
Also, Russia has pipelines to China and building more pipelines as we speak.
You have absolutely no clue regarding the subject you’re attempting to debate.
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It quite obviously will. China’s industry is growing along with BRI. All the industry that’s moving out of Europe will go to Asia and use Russian gas. Again, this isn’t rocket science and it’s amazing that people don’t get this. The articles you linked are written for gullible people who don’t understand how economy or energy markets work globally.
Literally zero evidence for the claim that western industry leaving Russia has any negative impact. All it does is create room domestic industry and companies from friendly countries like China and India. If sanctions failed to produce any effect initially, it’s obvious they will only have less effect going forward.
Hope you now have a better understanding of the errors in your sources.
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What part of Russia is building new pipelines to China are you struggling with?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
LMAO pretty telling how all the numbers are from May, weird how it fails to mention that inflation has been dropping rapidly in Russia, and prices for necessities have been falling
This is precisely my point regarding sanctions. They create an initial shock and then the economy adjusts. There is no instance I’m aware of where western sanctions led to regime change that I’m aware of. Venezuela, DPRK, and Iran are all small countries managing to cope with western sanctions. It’s absolute idiocy to think Russia would not.
Meanwhile, what really matters is the relative economic shock to Russia and the west. Right now the economy in the west is doing far war than in Russia. The obvious reason being that Russia is secure for food, energy, and manufacturing while the west is not.
Although EU is so deep in US ass that it’s performing haruspice on US entrails to guess the wishes of its master even without direct orders, but not even such toadies would betray their countries like this without some strong pressure.
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Way to move the goalposts, nobody was mentioning anything about “people’s wishes”.
Also, seems that perspective of huge crisis is starting to get through the thick fog of decades of frenzied imperialist propaganda even in the imperial core, so USA also had to blow up the pipes to make fait accompli in case of european governments caving to the wishes of their people to not fell flat on face in worst crisis in decades, instead of licking the colon of USA just so that US oligarchy might fatten itself even more.
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really hoping this is a very elaborate high-effort troll otherwise this level of brainworms could be terminal
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true true
@varjolintu @ksynwa
I wouldn’t say “just”.
And indeed that may be the difference between actual marxists and tankies.
As if you never even heard about manufacturing consent.
Lmao, post hog
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did you just call EU countries not corrupted? lol
You really are the epitome of bad faith debate bro.
Which ones are non-corrupted?
@varjolintu @PolandIsAStateOfMind
“listening to the voice of the people”
Good joke !
@Ephera @yogthos it doesn’t really matter if that’s what representative democracies “wanted” sanctions are immoral not for the least but because it adversely effects nearly everyone save perhaps the politicians themselves. Particularly harmful to the working class no matter which nation they reside in on each side.
Well, personally I’d rather throw the world economy under a bus than sit back and relax as some psychopath has millions of innocent people slaughtered.
This may not be rational by some definition, this may not be behaviour even I would expect from a nation. But I don’t need to fucking be told that the schoolyard bully peer-pressured us into doing this when I’m allowed to vote and would have preferred even stronger sanctions.