Lokinet is a onion-router (like tor, i2p) implementation of the LLARP protocol which tries to be a modern re-implementation of i2p. Session is a private messenger (like Signal) built using lokinet to hide metadata. If I understand correctly they have a cryptocurrency called oxen, which is earned or mined by providing servers to the loki network and oxen blockchain.

Imo they have these arguments on their side:

  • i2p is really slow and if re-implementing yields the results they claim it would be awesome
  • building a private messenger on top of onion-routing seems like a very good idea, since metadata is the new surveillance while it doesn’t generate massive amounts of traffic per user

What I worry about:

  • I don’t like cryptocurrencies in general, they haven’t yet proven that they can be used as anything but be used to speculate.
  • if people who are supposed to be the backbone of the onion-routing service are paid to do this I worry that in some (maybe new and still unknown) way this will weaken the network in comparison to a network run by volunteers and users (like tor and i2p). Maybe this will favor larger servers so all of the onion-routing is done in “the cloud” and none from home which in result is easier to surveil.
  • a talk at the yearly chaos computer congress about the alt-rights online behavior titled “Let’s play Infokrieg” (the talk is in German, but I linked the version with english live translation) talks about lokinet and how the developer advertised it on 8chan. This is all the connection they mention though and it’s pretty thin Imo.
  • in general I believe that cryptocurrencies don’t draw a very good crowd, also
  • I haven’t seen any reputable source advertise any of this. Not Lokinet, not session messenger, of course not their crypto coin…

Conclusion:

All of this isn’t a big problem, if they stay a small project. But them having the fastest onion-router, elon musk maybe tweeting about them and people flocking to them to “invest” might have the project gain momentum and them being the new tor or even bigger, applications built on top of it being a threat to signal etc.

I think some of their tech is very cool, a fast and modern onion-router could be very important for future secure web applications, but it’s troublesome

  • it’s in the hands of people nobody knows
  • motivated by financial gain
  • coupled with cryptocurrency

What are your thoughts on this? I am really interested to hear, how we should tackle this in your opinion.

  • Raziel
    45·
    4 years ago

    You seems to have a prejudice with crypto, with profit incentives and in general, people that don’t think like you…

    Cryptocurrencies are at this moment being implemented in way to many use cases to name here, for things like preventing your hard earned money to slowly dissapear via inflation and for making transactions basically. Is a tremendous missconception the idea that “speculation” is a bad. Thanks good people speculate all the time, like what youre doing with this post “speculating” or thinking about posible outcomes of a re-implementation of i2p, the acurate your speculation is, higher the chamce of success of the project

    Financial incentives are probably the most powerfull incentives to coordinate people who doesnt know each other and (probably didn’t ever like each other) Is not an odeological position, it just a fact.

    In your favor you do have a point if you are worried about centralization, that was basically what happend to bitcoin though there are ways to prevent that and at the same time have have the powerfulls incentives for people to participate in the network and share their resources, given the fast loosing of privacy online it doesnt look like a good idea ignore solutions on an ideological basis. Probably the best path fordware is woth more iterations, tryal and error, the more projects out there with different and creative approaches, the better. Sooner or later something will stick

    • fidibus@lemmy.161.socialOP
      1·
      4 years ago

      Financial incentives are probably the most powerfull incentives to coordinate people who doesnt know each other and (probably didn’t ever like each other) Is not an odeological position, it just a fact.

      Given that this is a fact, does it automatically mean that it gives the best outcome?

      I even addressed this in my post, that I think they might succeed an become bigger than tor but not run by a proper non-profit etc.

      I guess as long as the cryptography is good nothing that bad should happen, I and others aren’t forced to use it ^^.

      Maybe we’ll fork it without the coin as incentive for people running the routers…