Their govt is capitalist. Putin mostly sucks. They’re also the only thing standing in the way of the total hegemony of the largest fascist empire the world has ever seen spearheaded by the U.S.
Russia, as “totalitarian” as it may be, does not ban communists from its government and in fact the communist party is very large. It does ban neo-Nazi groups as well as parties calling themselves explicitly fascist. Ukraine, on the other hand, has avowed fascists in positions of power in both the government and the military. They have recently banned all communist parties as well as all leftist parties, ranging from mere anti-war liberals to social-democrats. Anyone bringing awareness to the Nazi problem in Ukraine is summarily arrested. Zelensky himself wants to turn Ukraine into a “new Israel” with ethnic Ukrainians being in charge of an apartheid state where ethnic Russians are second class citizens and armed military police roam the streets and “guard” movie theatres, hospitals, schools, and more.
Russia is currently attempting to liberate ethnic Russians in the Donbass region from an ethnic cleansing campaign that goes back to 2014 and before. Over 14,000 ethnic Russians have had their lives taken by the Ukrainian military and many more have had their homes and livelihoods destroyed. This is the reason Crimea voluntarily voted to join the Russian federation, as did the people in the Donbass. Russia is acknowledging a democratic referendum. Ukraine is continuing its ethnic cleansing policy. It may seem complicated, but there is an obvious answer to the question of which camp is perpetuating imperialism and genocide and which one is finding itself fighting against it.
The Belorussian Cyber Partisan also wants to turn Belorus in to a new Israel for the Western empire. She wants her country to become a tech hub, grow their economy and attract ‘skilled workers’, part of which is driven by defence contracts. She wants it to have a strong ethic identity based around fear, and victimisation by their neighbours who want to destroy them, and to serve as a buffer for the west against their enemies.
I don’t think it’s fair to say he’s advocated for apartheid based on this, just that he admires apartheid and wants to implement a police state. A lot of this article is also attributed to a Daniel Shapiro rather than Zelenskyy.
If you completely ignore all context, everything else I mentioned, and everything else Zelensky has said, sure. Zelensky has personally lauded the banning of political parties and human rights groups advocating for the rights and protections of ethnic Russians in Ukraine
Well I asked for reading material and what you sent me didn’t support the claim. You haven’t said anything else in this thread to establish and substantiate Zelenskyy advocating for apartheid. The article is also clear that it’s the author’s speculating and just following the trajectory. I’m not saying Zelenskyy and his government aren’t Nazis, I’m just asking for condemnation to be based on verifiable non-rescinded statements. Banning socialism and being against the people is bad enough. But publicly supporting apartheid is (I think…) going to turn public opinion against him in Europe. If it’s actually something he’s advocated I want it sourced and I want it heard by my fellow Europeans.
As a counterpoint to the narrative in the article: What else is a police state necessary to enforce? My suggestion is the suppression of communism.
That’s already happening in Ukraine, so it’s not what they are talking about. Also, apartheid is already in motion there too, since 2014 when they passed some bills against the russian minority and russian speaking Ukrainians. And their shock therapy especially endangerd Donbass. And they literally started to kill them when they protested. If that’s not apartheid then what it is. Zelensky is standing on a stance of victory in this war, which means Donbas would return to Ukraine - and they want to do what exactly with Donbas then? It will escalate like never before. Again, those are the people who even in middle of losing war make senseless terror strikes against civilians and even attacked Crimea.
That’s already happening in Ukraine, so it’s not what they are talking about.
I’m suggesting that that could be all there is. It doesn’t have to be more. It’s illegal now and enforced because there’s a war going, but how is enforcement going to look once the country is stable?
since 2014 when they passed some bills against the russian minority and russian speaking Ukrainians
Okay, so this is what I want to know more about please.
If that’s not apartheid then what it is.
Apartheid is legal, that’s the big difference I’m getting hung up on. All the defacto apartheid in the world is going to faze most liberals because 1) They’re usually racist themselves and 2) “It’s just retaliation for the war by lone wolfs and it’s blown out of proportion”. But legal apartheid is non-refutable (lol let’s go with harder to refute).
Donbas would return to Ukraine - and they want to do what exactly with Donbas then?
Kill (kill is being used a hyperbolic synonym to abuse) Russian citizens and collaborators where there is legal framework for saying they supported an illegal invasion by Russia. Even in the case where the legal wording allows discrimination against those in the east, it wouldn’t illicit as strong a response from the European public as if the legal wording mentioned ethnicity.
Again, those are the people who even in middle of losing war make senseless terror strikes against civilians and even attacked Crimea.
This feels like you’re trying to convince me that the Ukrainian regime is nazis. I’m already onboard with that. I’m only not onboard with the assertion by SovereignState that I have been shown evidence that Zelenskyy has talked about a legally enforced apartheid system.
I’m suggesting that that could be all there is. It doesn’t have to be more. It’s illegal now and enforced because there’s a war going, but how is enforcement going to look once the country is stable?
Please be real. Anticommunism is going in Ukraine since 1991, it goes HARD since 2014 to the point where old babushkas are dragged and convicted in courts for presenting soviet memorabilia including posting them on internet. If after the war the same clique remains ruling nothing will stop, it will most probably escalate.
Okay, so this is what I want to know more about please.
Just a minute of search and already three separate cases. And as you can see not even only Russians, Hungarians and Greeks are targeted too. They aren’t even solely antirussian, they are raging chauvinists. Shock therapy:
Kill (kill is being used a hyperbolic synonym to abuse) Russian citizens and collaborators
It’s not even hyperbolic. Ukraine is deploying deathsquads. For example in Bucha they literally murdered people wearing white armbands, which weren’t even collaborators, just neutral people wanting to live despite war. Now when Russians retreated from some land, Ukraine is openly stating it will purge it. Hard to say how much this is happening since reliable information is scarce and media are controlled.
it wouldn’t illicit as strong a response from the European public
West is spinning everything into proukrainian message or whitewashing it or silencing it, like the aforementioned Bucha massacre, massive amounts of neonazis in Ukraine military, apartheid law, blames Russia for attacks on Russians (!) or civilians in Donbas, rampant corruption etc etc. Zelensky could be personally slaughtering infants in center of Kiev and you would hear praises of it.
I would recommend digging a bit more, a small example how narration has changed:
I’m already onboard with that
Good. That clears some of what i already wrote above. Question is, why are you thinking the banderists neonazis won’t do what every other nazis in history had done, apartheid and persecution of minorities. Hell they even TELL you they will do things like one of the clearest cases of apartheid state, Israel, is doing.
I’m only not onboard with the assertion by SovereignState that I have been shown evidence that Zelenskyy has talked about a legally enforced apartheid system.
As i said before, that is already legally in place. They are just telling you it will be worse.
Their govt is capitalist. Putin mostly sucks. They’re also the only thing standing in the way of the total hegemony of the largest fascist empire the world has ever seen spearheaded by the U.S.
Russia, as “totalitarian” as it may be, does not ban communists from its government and in fact the communist party is very large. It does ban neo-Nazi groups as well as parties calling themselves explicitly fascist. Ukraine, on the other hand, has avowed fascists in positions of power in both the government and the military. They have recently banned all communist parties as well as all leftist parties, ranging from mere anti-war liberals to social-democrats. Anyone bringing awareness to the Nazi problem in Ukraine is summarily arrested. Zelensky himself wants to turn Ukraine into a “new Israel” with ethnic Ukrainians being in charge of an apartheid state where ethnic Russians are second class citizens and armed military police roam the streets and “guard” movie theatres, hospitals, schools, and more.
Russia is currently attempting to liberate ethnic Russians in the Donbass region from an ethnic cleansing campaign that goes back to 2014 and before. Over 14,000 ethnic Russians have had their lives taken by the Ukrainian military and many more have had their homes and livelihoods destroyed. This is the reason Crimea voluntarily voted to join the Russian federation, as did the people in the Donbass. Russia is acknowledging a democratic referendum. Ukraine is continuing its ethnic cleansing policy. It may seem complicated, but there is an obvious answer to the question of which camp is perpetuating imperialism and genocide and which one is finding itself fighting against it.
Where can I read more about this?
The Belorussian Cyber Partisan also wants to turn Belorus in to a new Israel for the Western empire. She wants her country to become a tech hub, grow their economy and attract ‘skilled workers’, part of which is driven by defence contracts. She wants it to have a strong ethic identity based around fear, and victimisation by their neighbours who want to destroy them, and to serve as a buffer for the west against their enemies.
https://thegrayzone.com/2022/09/17/zelensky-nato-ukraine-big-israel/
I don’t think it’s fair to say he’s advocated for apartheid based on this, just that he admires apartheid and wants to implement a police state. A lot of this article is also attributed to a Daniel Shapiro rather than Zelenskyy.
If you completely ignore all context, everything else I mentioned, and everything else Zelensky has said, sure. Zelensky has personally lauded the banning of political parties and human rights groups advocating for the rights and protections of ethnic Russians in Ukraine
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/russia-ukraine-zelensky-big-israel-moscow-nervous-why
This article goes into more detail.
Well I asked for reading material and what you sent me didn’t support the claim. You haven’t said anything else in this thread to establish and substantiate Zelenskyy advocating for apartheid. The article is also clear that it’s the author’s speculating and just following the trajectory. I’m not saying Zelenskyy and his government aren’t Nazis, I’m just asking for condemnation to be based on verifiable non-rescinded statements. Banning socialism and being against the people is bad enough. But publicly supporting apartheid is (I think…) going to turn public opinion against him in Europe. If it’s actually something he’s advocated I want it sourced and I want it heard by my fellow Europeans.
As a counterpoint to the narrative in the article: What else is a police state necessary to enforce? My suggestion is the suppression of communism.
That’s already happening in Ukraine, so it’s not what they are talking about. Also, apartheid is already in motion there too, since 2014 when they passed some bills against the russian minority and russian speaking Ukrainians. And their shock therapy especially endangerd Donbass. And they literally started to kill them when they protested. If that’s not apartheid then what it is. Zelensky is standing on a stance of victory in this war, which means Donbas would return to Ukraine - and they want to do what exactly with Donbas then? It will escalate like never before. Again, those are the people who even in middle of losing war make senseless terror strikes against civilians and even attacked Crimea.
I’m suggesting that that could be all there is. It doesn’t have to be more. It’s illegal now and enforced because there’s a war going, but how is enforcement going to look once the country is stable?
Okay, so this is what I want to know more about please.
Apartheid is legal, that’s the big difference I’m getting hung up on. All the defacto apartheid in the world is going to faze most liberals because 1) They’re usually racist themselves and 2) “It’s just retaliation for the war by lone wolfs and it’s blown out of proportion”. But legal apartheid is non-refutable (lol let’s go with harder to refute).
Kill (kill is being used a hyperbolic synonym to abuse) Russian citizens and collaborators where there is legal framework for saying they supported an illegal invasion by Russia. Even in the case where the legal wording allows discrimination against those in the east, it wouldn’t illicit as strong a response from the European public as if the legal wording mentioned ethnicity.
This feels like you’re trying to convince me that the Ukrainian regime is nazis. I’m already onboard with that. I’m only not onboard with the assertion by SovereignState that I have been shown evidence that Zelenskyy has talked about a legally enforced apartheid system.
Please be real. Anticommunism is going in Ukraine since 1991, it goes HARD since 2014 to the point where old babushkas are dragged and convicted in courts for presenting soviet memorabilia including posting them on internet. If after the war the same clique remains ruling nothing will stop, it will most probably escalate.
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2014-010539_EN.html?redirect
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210401-new-law-stokes-ukraine-language-tensions
https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/01/19/new-language-requirement-raises-concerns-ukraine
Just a minute of search and already three separate cases. And as you can see not even only Russians, Hungarians and Greeks are targeted too. They aren’t even solely antirussian, they are raging chauvinists. Shock therapy:
https://mronline.org/2022/08/01/west-prepares-to-plunder-post-war-ukraine-with-neoli
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/economics-of-disintegration-in-ukraine/
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/ukraine-is-ripe-for-shock-doctrine/
https://www.nplusonemag.com/issue-24/ukraine-supplement/states-of-shock/
As seen above, it is legal.
It’s not even hyperbolic. Ukraine is deploying deathsquads. For example in Bucha they literally murdered people wearing white armbands, which weren’t even collaborators, just neutral people wanting to live despite war. Now when Russians retreated from some land, Ukraine is openly stating it will purge it. Hard to say how much this is happening since reliable information is scarce and media are controlled.
West is spinning everything into proukrainian message or whitewashing it or silencing it, like the aforementioned Bucha massacre, massive amounts of neonazis in Ukraine military, apartheid law, blames Russia for attacks on Russians (!) or civilians in Donbas, rampant corruption etc etc. Zelensky could be personally slaughtering infants in center of Kiev and you would hear praises of it.
I would recommend digging a bit more, a small example how narration has changed:
Good. That clears some of what i already wrote above. Question is, why are you thinking the banderists neonazis won’t do what every other nazis in history had done, apartheid and persecution of minorities. Hell they even TELL you they will do things like one of the clearest cases of apartheid state, Israel, is doing.
As i said before, that is already legally in place. They are just telling you it will be worse.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CiujHmNj1k6/?igshid=YzA2ZDJiZGQ=
White Phosporus, what are they liberating? This isn’t liberation. We must be better than our enemies, not equal to them.
I’ll be sure to trust Geografia News over news outlets that actually exist outside of instagram
I don’t wanna fuck with instagram, but let me guess, it’s a “Chandelier” illumination shell again?
CBS News Washington Post Forbes Business Insider
And for an even more fair reading Newsweek Fact Check
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So you nitpick on Newsweek and ignore LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE, just admit you don’t actually care about any of the people involved in this shit.
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