Anarchism and communism
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I am an anarchist. But I am not an asshole, I would like to understand why some communists are so hostile against anarchist and why some anarchist are so hostile toward communism.

I don’t understand that. There are a lot of common ways of doing things between anarchists and communism and we both have the goal.

It can seem like a very stupid post, but I am really trying to understand :)

I feel like we leftists are more hostile toward other leftists with whom we disagree than we are toward anyone else. It’s a shame; we could actually get things done but instead we’re doing this.

@Micalet
14M

I do not think is WE, I think is the leaders, that take us as their market share and like to fight for it instead of embrace coopetition (cooperation and competition)

SnowCode
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I’m not going to take that bait, though, lol

SnowCode
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“as soon as the communists aren’t trying to destroy anarchism”

I was saying I don’t want to get into an argument about this literally in the thread about getting along, lol.

SnowCode
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Kropotkin talks about it in this essay: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-communism-and-anarchy. Also, Lenin and Kropotkin met and talked a little about this: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320858448_When_Kropotkin_met_Lenin

Communists tend to see anarchism as idealist and thus not rooted enough in reality to bring actual, lasting change. A good summary of communist criticisms of anarchism can be found on Cuba’s Wikipedia-like site.

https://www.ecured.cu/Anarquismo

SnowCode
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Well, anarchist is more complex than that. It’s not always individualist, “subjective” (???, what is objective then?). They are basically saying anarchist understands nothing. Which is wrong, we agree on Marxism on many points, except centralization.

This is not an accurate definition of anarchism according to me and is very reductive.

You can’t really make a good critic when the definition itself is different for everybody.

That “definition itself is different for everyone” is what some may call “subjective.” Scientific Marxism is based on material reality and objectivity. There’s no room for subjectivity.

@SloppilyFloss
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I don’t think I agree with this opinion. Objectivity and subjectivity exist in dialectical unity and employing only one of these in any analyses will ultimately lead you to an incomplete worldview and praxis. Both are necessary.

“For this individual the subjective aspect exists only in relation to the objective aspect (the concrete reality, which is the object of analysis). Subjectivity and objectivity thus join in a dialectical unity producing knowledge in solidarity with action, and vice versa.” - Paulo Freire in Pedagogy of the Oppressed

Subjectivity will always be subordinate to objectivity. Regardless of your “opinions” the universe exists in exactly one way. This cannot be changed to account for individual tastes or beliefs.

Subjectivity will always be subordinate to objectivity

Yeah I definitely agree with you here, the universe is objective and from that material reality people have their own subjective experiences. As I said, they both exist in dialectical unity. So because they both exist in this way, you absolutely can’t ignore subjectivity when engaging in solidarity with others and analyzing their material reality. You’d wouldn’t be getting the full picture of how their objective reality interacts with their subjective experiences and vice versa.

Oh, okay, then we agree.

SnowCode
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4M

I am saying the definition is different for everyone because anarchist and communist don’t define anarchism the same way. Anarchist wants to abolish hierarchy, that’s the definition. What ever type of anarchism, it remains the same. I don’t really see what’s subjective in this.

Which is not the same as the definition given on the article.

@Micalet
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4M

The cooperative, and union of cooperatives that even inside a capitalist world can be a movement to fight corporations, have been used by governing communist parties as a tool in sectors where planification and orders from far away do not work.

But in political parties people treat their side as a sport team.

What I do not understand is why COOPERATIVES, specially in places with unemployment, are not being promoted and subsidiced by politicians, specially leftist ones as a tool to improve employment, salaries, intake, in the long term and leftist vote.

@xe8
24M

It’s probably a mix of legitimate grievances, and misunderstandings on both sides.

In the end we’re so deep in Capitalist hell, that up to a point most of us only subscribe to a particular ideology in theory. It’s a bit pointless to argue too much about details about different ideologies when there’s so much work we can be doing to be building power in our workplaces, mutual aid / community support networks, open source technologies, etc.

At least we can all agree on a few things such as being anti-capitalist and anti-fascist, and work from there.

I guess in the end we only have control over our own actions, so on your own part it’s a good idea to find out what criticisms MLs may have. Read some ML theory, don’t repeat garbage from the Black Book of Communism, and support the real progress Marxists, etc. have made. But apart from that, just concentrate on tangible projects.

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