I’d say that science and philosophy serve distinct and complementary roles.
Science is focused on the objective. It provides us with the tools for developing empirical understanding of how the natural world works. Meanwhile, philosophy focuses on the subjective. It provides us with a framework for deciding on what should be done and why.
In other words, science provides us with the tools to take action while philosophy provides us with guidance on how to use these tools.
Your idea isn’t necessarily wrong, but I want to take it a step further.
Separating culture (here you said philosophy) and science, and in general, separating what is deemed to be objective from what is deemed to be the subjective, is typical of so called modern thought. But let’s take a step back and see this issue from another perspective where there’s no silver line separating the Subject from the Object, Philosophy from Science, Culture from Nature, the Human from the Non Human. If we take into account this illusion of purifying amd classifying the universe, an alternative conception of the world unravels; all entities would possess equal metaphysical value and development towards an objective end goal seems to lose all meaning (is techological development linear? Does it help us arrive at our ultimate goal?)
I think it’s fallacious to separate between the subjective and the objective and give each their own specific functions to oraganize our social constructions. That’s because beyond our insulated thought process, in the concrete world, the Subjective and Objective (Science and Philosophy, Science and Politics or whatever the separation may be) are being simultaneously employed, they are one and the same. How many times, when reading/watching news about scientific phenomenon (say an environmental issue) being, the scientific experts in the field would implicitly imply a political statement. It has always been in front of our eyes but it was about now that we can see how a statement that is deemed objective and factual may contain a subjective message embedded in its core.
I would argue that goals are inherently subjective. A decision to take a particular action or to achieve a particular result is fundamentally subjective. Whether something is desirable or not is ultimately in the eye of the beholder. People can agree on objective state of things, but disagree on whether the state of things is desirable.
However, the ideal of science deals with objective facts the truth of which is independent of our interpretations or desires. Science allows us to create models of the material world around us and to use these models in order to manipulate it. Science is simply a tool for analyzing and manipulating the world effectively.
The use of this tool is rooted in subjective desires that we have, and philosophy helps guide us in application of our knowledge that we derive from science. It is fundamentally a study of the subjective.
That said, you are correct that in practice we rarely draw a clear distinction between the objective and the subjective. In fact, people will often treat their subjective views as if they were objective facts.
However, the ideal of science deals with objective facts
Sure, we can have an ideal, but this is very far from what reality shows us. Science can’t be placed in an insulated bubble of disinterest and objectivity (Something unfortunate that liberal thought overgeneralized and was adopted by the global common sense). I fully disagree when people say “oh why yes science is a disinterested that can be used for both good and evil”, but it’s more than that because moral intent is inseparable from science. The scientific method itself was developed by solitary philosophers who sat for hours in their high towers isolated from their community. Subjectivity is in the core of the scientific method, which is why nasty terms like eugenics, racialism, parapsychology…etc. were considered sciences. This is why many “scientific experiments” affirmed the supremacy of one race over another, a gender over the other and so on. Let’s not forget as well Science’s discriminatory nature towards non human entities, mere objects that are “designed” to be exploited for the “common good”.
Science isn’t objective, it’s human. It’s the collective perceptions, thoughts and conclusions we as humans have made of Nature when we ourselves are an integral part of this nature. How we see the world around us is ewually valuable to how an animal or even a rock could maybe see it. Let’s forget the idea that we’re observing nature from the outside, because we’re in fact inside of it and reacting with it. Subjectivity shouldn’t be refuted (as it is the case tiday) or else we fall into delusion.
I don’t think we’re disagreeing here. As I said in my original comment, science and philosophy serve distinct and complementary roles. They’re two sides of the same coin because as you point out everything we do is inherently subjective. However, it is valuable to recognize which aspect focuses on the objective and which on the subjective.
The difference between objectivity and subjectivity is that objectivity is independent of our wishes and beliefs. If I subjectively convince myself that I can fly that isn’t going to make it so no matter what I happen to think.
I’d say that science and philosophy serve distinct and complementary roles.
Science is focused on the objective. It provides us with the tools for developing empirical understanding of how the natural world works. Meanwhile, philosophy focuses on the subjective. It provides us with a framework for deciding on what should be done and why.
In other words, science provides us with the tools to take action while philosophy provides us with guidance on how to use these tools.
(sorry in advance for any typos)
Your idea isn’t necessarily wrong, but I want to take it a step further.
Separating culture (here you said philosophy) and science, and in general, separating what is deemed to be objective from what is deemed to be the subjective, is typical of so called modern thought. But let’s take a step back and see this issue from another perspective where there’s no silver line separating the Subject from the Object, Philosophy from Science, Culture from Nature, the Human from the Non Human. If we take into account this illusion of purifying amd classifying the universe, an alternative conception of the world unravels; all entities would possess equal metaphysical value and development towards an objective end goal seems to lose all meaning (is techological development linear? Does it help us arrive at our ultimate goal?)
I think it’s fallacious to separate between the subjective and the objective and give each their own specific functions to oraganize our social constructions. That’s because beyond our insulated thought process, in the concrete world, the Subjective and Objective (Science and Philosophy, Science and Politics or whatever the separation may be) are being simultaneously employed, they are one and the same. How many times, when reading/watching news about scientific phenomenon (say an environmental issue) being, the scientific experts in the field would implicitly imply a political statement. It has always been in front of our eyes but it was about now that we can see how a statement that is deemed objective and factual may contain a subjective message embedded in its core.
I would argue that goals are inherently subjective. A decision to take a particular action or to achieve a particular result is fundamentally subjective. Whether something is desirable or not is ultimately in the eye of the beholder. People can agree on objective state of things, but disagree on whether the state of things is desirable.
However, the ideal of science deals with objective facts the truth of which is independent of our interpretations or desires. Science allows us to create models of the material world around us and to use these models in order to manipulate it. Science is simply a tool for analyzing and manipulating the world effectively.
The use of this tool is rooted in subjective desires that we have, and philosophy helps guide us in application of our knowledge that we derive from science. It is fundamentally a study of the subjective.
That said, you are correct that in practice we rarely draw a clear distinction between the objective and the subjective. In fact, people will often treat their subjective views as if they were objective facts.
Sure, we can have an ideal, but this is very far from what reality shows us. Science can’t be placed in an insulated bubble of disinterest and objectivity (Something unfortunate that liberal thought overgeneralized and was adopted by the global common sense). I fully disagree when people say “oh why yes science is a disinterested that can be used for both good and evil”, but it’s more than that because moral intent is inseparable from science. The scientific method itself was developed by solitary philosophers who sat for hours in their high towers isolated from their community. Subjectivity is in the core of the scientific method, which is why nasty terms like eugenics, racialism, parapsychology…etc. were considered sciences. This is why many “scientific experiments” affirmed the supremacy of one race over another, a gender over the other and so on. Let’s not forget as well Science’s discriminatory nature towards non human entities, mere objects that are “designed” to be exploited for the “common good”.
Science isn’t objective, it’s human. It’s the collective perceptions, thoughts and conclusions we as humans have made of Nature when we ourselves are an integral part of this nature. How we see the world around us is ewually valuable to how an animal or even a rock could maybe see it. Let’s forget the idea that we’re observing nature from the outside, because we’re in fact inside of it and reacting with it. Subjectivity shouldn’t be refuted (as it is the case tiday) or else we fall into delusion.
I don’t think we’re disagreeing here. As I said in my original comment, science and philosophy serve distinct and complementary roles. They’re two sides of the same coin because as you point out everything we do is inherently subjective. However, it is valuable to recognize which aspect focuses on the objective and which on the subjective.
The difference between objectivity and subjectivity is that objectivity is independent of our wishes and beliefs. If I subjectively convince myself that I can fly that isn’t going to make it so no matter what I happen to think.