Neither did they have any plan to invade Ukraine… Not arguing whether or not this invasion was justified, but it is happening, and wouldn’t have happened if Ukraine was in NATO.
What about you read the rest of the same Wikipedia paragraph instead of isolating the sentence that seems to make you right?
Plans for NATO membership were shelved by Ukraine following the 2010 presidential election in which Viktor Yanukovych, who preferred to keep the country non-aligned, was elected President. Amid the Euromaidan unrest, Yanukovych fled Ukraine in February 2014. The interim Yatseniuk Government which came to power initially said, with reference to the country’s non-aligned status, that it had no plans to join NATO.
(I stop here as the rest concerns what happens after Russian invasion)
So OK, I didn’t write it in the best possible way (as it couod be read as “Ukraine had never made any plan to join NATO ever”, which was not my intention) but my point is still correct : just before the invasion, Ukraine had no such plans.
Maybe you consider that having had a plan to join NATO 4 years before justifies annexing a part of the country?
The Maidan revolution happened because of aborted economics ties with EU, and the Maidan government wanted to strengthen economic relations with EU. There was no clear intention to integrate NATO.
That’s completely ahistorical. The maidan coup was a color revolution that was instigated by US and one of the goals was to integrate Ukraine militarily into NATO. This is undeniably a fact based on the fact that it’s precisely what’s been happening over the past 8 years.
It seems to me that you are once again using what happened after Crimea’s annexation as an a posteriori justification for it. You are basically saying that Ukraine collaborating with NATO after being invaded by Russia shows that it was previously being aggressive towards Russia. Is there any fact predating Russia’s annexion of Crimea that shows Maidan government’s ambition to join NATO?
Note also that my original point is not contradicting anyithing you said. If Russia invaded Ukraine because of mere signs that it might want to join NATO, what prevents it from doing the same with Finland?
Finland is a EU country that shares a border with Russia and collaborates with NATO, so it is (qualitatively) as much a threat to Russia’s existence as Ukraine was, so it may be invaded by Russia someday for the same reason, so it has a motivation to join NATO to protect itself against that possibility.
It will change that Russia won’t be able to onvade them without waging war on NATO
I don’t think Russia really had a plan to “onvade” them
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Neither did they have any plan to invade Ukraine… Not arguing whether or not this invasion was justified, but it is happening, and wouldn’t have happened if Ukraine was in NATO.
Ambitions to join NATO was literally the reason Russia invaded Ukraine.
wow so original
Ukraine had no official ambition to join NATO before the Crimea annexation.
“Ukraine applied to integrate with a NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) in 2008.”
Learn your history before you talk about such things
What about you read the rest of the same Wikipedia paragraph instead of isolating the sentence that seems to make you right?
(I stop here as the rest concerns what happens after Russian invasion)
So OK, I didn’t write it in the best possible way (as it couod be read as “Ukraine had never made any plan to join NATO ever”, which was not my intention) but my point is still correct : just before the invasion, Ukraine had no such plans.
Maybe you consider that having had a plan to join NATO 4 years before justifies annexing a part of the country?
I’m just disputing a very simple claim you made. 2008 is very simply before the Crimea annexation. So you are very simply wrong.
I indeed poorly choose my words, sorry about that.
What I said :
can be understood in two ways :
I meant the second one, but I recognize that I should have stated that more clearly.
Crimea annexation happened as a direct response to the government in Ukraine being couped by the US.
The Maidan revolution happened because of aborted economics ties with EU, and the Maidan government wanted to strengthen economic relations with EU. There was no clear intention to integrate NATO.
That’s completely ahistorical. The maidan coup was a color revolution that was instigated by US and one of the goals was to integrate Ukraine militarily into NATO. This is undeniably a fact based on the fact that it’s precisely what’s been happening over the past 8 years.
It seems to me that you are once again using what happened after Crimea’s annexation as an a posteriori justification for it. You are basically saying that Ukraine collaborating with NATO after being invaded by Russia shows that it was previously being aggressive towards Russia. Is there any fact predating Russia’s annexion of Crimea that shows Maidan government’s ambition to join NATO?
Note also that my original point is not contradicting anyithing you said. If Russia invaded Ukraine because of mere signs that it might want to join NATO, what prevents it from doing the same with Finland?
Finland is a EU country that shares a border with Russia and collaborates with NATO, so it is (qualitatively) as much a threat to Russia’s existence as Ukraine was, so it may be invaded by Russia someday for the same reason, so it has a motivation to join NATO to protect itself against that possibility.