• _thisdot@infosec.pub
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    1 year ago

    Intersex yes. I thought trans was a relatively new (20th century, maybe 1930s) thing. What is the earliest recorded transition?

    • christophski@feddit.uk
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      1 year ago

      Chevalier d’Éon spent the last years of her life recognised by the king as a woman from 1777.

      The term transgender is 20th century, but transgender people have always existed

    • MinusPi (she/they)@pawb.social
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      1 year ago

      I specifically mean trans people, not intersex people, though they have existed too. There are plenty of ancient cultures with evidence of what we would call trans people today, with some even being revered. Sorry to not give sources, but I’m just not invested enough to go research specifics at the moment.

      • _thisdot@infosec.pub
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        1 year ago

        I’m genuinely curious. Would you consider someone like Mulan trans? I’m from India and we have mythological stories of intersex and gods magically transforming to the opposite gender. None technically trans

        • MinusPi (she/they)@pawb.social
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          1 year ago

          No, Mulan’s “male” side was only ever a disguise, not her actually being a man. She was manly/masculine perhaps, as she did end up being described well by the song “Be a Man”, but ultimately her gender was never truly in question by herself or the audience.

          As for history, this Wikipedia page is an excellent summary.

    • Didros@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      I know there was a Trans man that rode for the Pony Express. We just didn’t call it that and if they were ever found out there us a good chance they would die.

      • _thisdot@infosec.pub
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        1 year ago

        are we stretching the definitions here a little bit? Would we call Mulan trans?

        • Didros@beehaw.org
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          1 year ago

          What do you call living your whole life with a binder on, going by your chosen male name, and wishing to die over having a doctor give them a look over?

              • _thisdot@infosec.pub
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                1 year ago

                I don’t know what the proper term is. I’m sorry. Not trying to be rude or offensive. English isn’t my first language either

                • Didros@beehaw.org
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                  1 year ago

                  Understood. They were trans in the modern sense of the word. Ran away from home, took on a man’s name and learned a “man’s” trade to support himself. They didn’t have the word trans back then, but no one other than his wife knew the truth until he died. But the word trans didn’t exist back then. And there was no positive term for it until modern history.

                  Sorry to jump at ya.

    • juliebean@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      the earliest i’m aware of off the top of my head goes back to around 300BCE, but i haven’t exactly done any research to find the earliest example, and i’d expect there are earlier ones. just suffice to say we’ve been around a long time.

    • s20
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      1 year ago

      You’re thinking of being g post-op. Not all trans people have surgery, and it’s not a requirement for being trans.