Might iI add, you will also undercut the concerted effort to supress DNC turn out. Just like every other election remember the ground rules be cagey, be indirect, accuse people of moral failure, and never ever compromise or adjust your position.

Buddy, our country is not so great on the world stage. You honestly think we can sink lower?

Oh, absolutely.

If the only possible outcome is a strengthening of relations with a genocidal colonial project then the American democratic experiment has been dead for a long time

Agreed. If the Bushes hadn’t fucked us up so much in the middle east already we’d have maybe at least one or two more options, but right-wing assholes like GDubz and Bibi ruin everything.

Yeah man life is really fuckin frustrating. Welcome to earf.

You absolutely should not be waiting until the next election cycle. You should be voicing your opinion, voting in off-cycle and local elections, and voting for the least harmful option in every election, including the presidential election. It’s a huge machine and voting once every 4 years for the pre-packaged candidate isn’t an effective strategy if you actually want things to change.

Vote for people that make things better in your community, city, county, state, and then think about federal elections. Displacing the trove of do-nothings or detrimental actors in the smaller elections will change sentiment in the parties and will change the candidates they put through in the primaries… but it will take years for that to happen.

Either that or revolution… but that’s going to be a whole lot worse for everyone for a few decades, best case scenario.

That’s kind of how ‘self rule’ works. You’re supposed to pay attention to politics.

People not voting is how we got in this mess in the first place.

Why do you think the GOP’s final defense is always “both sides do it?”

You and me both. Reddit literally browser finger printed my device and banned me in 2023 because I wouldn’t stop raising the flag on Biden. Now here we are and I want to do the whole told you so shit but I know more is at stake here than any other election I’ve lived through.

Seems you’re more upset at the optics.

I’m more upset that in roughly twenty weeks’ time there is a critical, no-shit, very real existential threat to the actual democratic system that underpins this entire country, which as it happens supports much of the rest of the world, and a bunch of opportunistic yahoos would happily ignore it to removed about one of the most progressive presidents we’ve had in forty years about an entirely different country’s genocide whose policies by the by is supported by that same existential motherfucking threat he’s fighting! For goddamned fuck’s SAKE what the hell is wrong with you.

The ‘biden genicide’ crowd is absolutely performing the russian trolls’ jobs admirably. And seem to be proud of it.

Jesus fucking Christ man. Read for the topic, now for what you want it to mean…

No one was talking about Biden. We’re clearly talking about how the far left accuses anyone that is still voting as supporting genocide.

You certainly are busy responding to my every comment today. Enjoying my comment history?

And

A fact of living in a liberal democrat is that citizens absolutely DO have that right.

And other citizens have the right to call out the bad faith propagandists that aren’t here to criticize the government, but only to criticize ONE government official.

You see, we all are very aware of the silence from the “far left” propagandists that pretend to be here in good faith when it comes to criticism of the right and the factually proven worse treatment Palestine will receive under Trump.

But you don’t really care about that, do you?

Every election there is a reason that the left candidate isn’t left enough for the purists - every single time.

Thanks, that’s helpful.:-)

He may still be trying to work the issue from the inside, but indeed there’s a line there, somewhere.

We still only get the two choices though:-(.

He can refuse to enforce their bullshit.

Can he though? Well anyway, he definitely could do more, no question about that.

What bothers me is this entitled thinking, like “we deserve better candidates” - okay, yeah, obviously, but we won’t get those until we make them. AOC, Bernie, there actually are several who are good, but apparently for some (whatever) reason they aren’t “viable”? Hence why Biden is there, instead of one of them.

(And you even ran - damn that’s impressive! To be absolutely clear, I am not calling you one of these “entitled thinkers”, b/c you actually stood up and tried to DO SOMETHING about it, first-hand - kudos!)

Biden offers the good that can be done, rather than what should be - to use the Batman phrase, the politician that America needs, rather than the one it deserves… or whatever?

There is also that phrase, attributed to Otto von Bismarck, that “Politics is the art of the possible, the attainable — the art of the next best.” Put another way, the whole thing is a matter of pragmatism, instead of idealism.

And in every other situation, Biden has been the pragmatist. Gas prices, unionization of railway workers, inflation, etc. So I wondered if he’s doing something similar here too, even if it looks like 10-D chess to us, and based on his other past successes (that the media refuses to highlight, b/c they are “boring”), I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt.

But my knowledge on this matter, especially lately, is shaky, so I could definitely be wrong there - perhaps this issue truly is the dividing line. I need to stop talking about that until I read up on the matter some more.

Though one thing that won’t ever change is that in the next upcoming election, we still only get the two choices though - Biden vs. Trump:-(. It’s like: imagine a robber steals your wallet, and offers you either the cash or your ID cards back (apparently the credit cards aren’t on the table for negotiation), but what they want in return is for you to say “please” - what do you do? Take one, or the other, or just walk away and leave both behind? Fighting the US government does not seem an effective option. We can cry about it, maybe go away and train for decades (as Batman did:-P) with the thought of perhaps getting revenge, but in that moment, our choices are limited. As I understand it, that is pragmatism.

America’s killing of civlians during the Iraq war was absolutely a horrible atrocity, but it wasn’t genocide. Words have meaning.

Are they angry cause you’re bashing Biden, or is it because they have to keep telling and reminding people how bad it can be and was with the alternative to Biden. They’re stuck defending a man they really don’t want to, because they know how bad the alternative is.

This election is literally the definition of voting for the lesser evil. Both, unfortunately, will continue genociding. Only one has said they want to be a dictator HERE though.

If I’ve learned anything about people through the past decade of politics its that you can never ever assume anything about people being intelligent in any group.

So given it an election year you could agree that comparing both potential future presidents is a healthy option.

Guess your argument is self-defeating, I’m gonna go for a hike 🤷🌲🌲

I would be amazed if anyone on lemmy.world was at all unaware of trump’s encouragement of genocide.

Plenty seem to think there’s no difference between the two, so they’re either unaware or fascists.

I hate how dirty they did Katie. But not surprised considering she’d actually hold people to account.

(and of course you got banned from the community but pug is allowed to constantly attack people)

I mean, for me it’s hyperbole, but whether it’s a literal nuke or a completely unrestrained Israeli army outfitted with unlimited US weapons, the outcome for Palestinian refugees in Gaza isn’t much different.

In terms of the policy position that is going to decide this election

Fucking lmao

Yes, because he framed his point in one particular emotionally resonant way that just maybe by pure coincidence tends to do more or less nothing at all for the Palestinians except hurt them, and by pure coincidence happens to feed Trump’s chances in the election.

I’ve seen so many tinfoil hat comments from you at this point that I’m sure you must be feeling lonely.

I’m not rooting for a trump presidency. I’m rooting for Biden to stop a genocide, and I believe 1000% Biden will lose on this issue alone if he doesn’t address it.

He’s not separating families at the border, but he is keeping children in open air detention camps without sanitation or adequate food and water.

Migrants who cross the border illegally wait under open skies or sometimes in tents or structures made of tree branches while short on food and water. When the number of migrants was particularly high last year, they waited for several days for Border Patrol agents to arrest and process them.

Gee said there was “significant evidence” that Customs and Border Protection, of which Border Patrol is a part, has physical control over minors at the outdoor locations. For example, CBP vehicles occasionally transport or drop off migrants to the camps and for a time, gave out wristbands to organize migrants by when they had arrived.

“This is a tremendous victory for children at open air detention sites, but it remains a tragedy that a court had to direct the government to do what basic human decency and the law clearly require,” Neha Desai, senior director of immigration at the National Center for Youth Law, said in a statement. “We expect CBP to comply with the court’s order swiftly, and we remain committed to holding CBP accountable for meeting the most rudimentary needs of children in their legal custody, including food, shelter, and basic medical care.”

Sure, and other people also had very different criticisms of him than your list that aren’t as easy to dismiss. The strawman is you cherry-picking these to argue against in order to demonstrate some blanket point about people who don’t want to vote for Biden, when only one of these is the actual point of the conversation (and not in the hyperbolized way you presented it).

So yeah, I would 100% suggest not committing a logical fallacy while you’re criticizing others for committing that logical fallacy.

I personally think the alternative perspective is a weird one, where politicians and policies are monolithic and unmovable, and challenging them necessarily means damaging the entire system. I was always taught that the strength of democracy was its enabling of negotiation, but you’re suggesting that there’s no negotiation to be had at all.

I think proactively committing to voting for a morally abhorrent candidate (a candidate promoting a morally abhorrent position, if you prefer) is less than submissive, it’s actually giving up the only possible leverage you might have had in order to accept a reality that hasn’t happened yet.

It’s absolutely a choice you are making, and even if you’d feel better if that didn’t make you guilty of ‘supporting’ genocide, i think it’s kind of self-evident.

Yours is probably the correct take, or near enough. The U.S., on a sociocultural level, tends to take sides. It’s nurtured into us. Sports is arguably the biggest reason, though throw in the news, social commentary, and a bit of high divorce rates, amongst other reasons, and you’ll have yourself a cake split down some middle. While far more complicated than this simple explanation, the reality is we are divided. This division makes it really difficult to want to agree with someone who doesn’t take your exact stance. Whatever reason justifies such firm footing on shaky ground is further falsely reinforced by those who exist just to rabble-rouse, 2024 Digital Digger Edition; “Our Words Harm”.

It’s become difficult to look at comments stuck in the social node of Biden=Bad or Bust in good faith, because they often don’t discuss and instead tend to yell.

Which really is sad, because we do need to come together.

It’s not just a character flaw you have - it appears to be endemic to dem apologists in general.

Since you’re one of the first I’ve seen even acknowledge it, I would love to understand from you what kind of media diet or environment produces this blindness to critique. I suspect it comes from abject terror of conservatives & fascism and a sense of powerlessness to affect real change outside the narrow system given to you by voting, even though voting is also deeply disempowering.