I read that Kbin defederated with Lemmy because it couldn’t initially handle the influx of new users migrating from Reddit, but that it has federated again.
So is it a Lemmy instance, like Beehaw?
I know that Kbin doesn’t use communities (“/c/”) but uses magazines (“/m/”) so I thought it was different.
I also read that there was some new way to post to Lemmy from Mastadon, but I thought those were different, like Reddit and Twitter. But they both rely on something called “ActivityPub”?
So is Kbin similar to Lemmy (by being Reddit-like), but distinct like Mastadon (which is Twitter-like)?
I didn’t have a Twitter account, but was a heavy Reddit user. I don’t have a Mastadon account, but I’m liking Lemmy. However I have some FOMO about Kbin because I don’t understand how it all works together.
No. It’s a different technology - in the same way that Mastadon is a different technology.
However, Kbin federates with Lemmy - so users can engage in each other’s posts.
So is Kbin similar to Lemmy (by being Reddit-like), but distinct like Mastadon (which is Twitter-like)?
Kbin does both.
There are communities (they use the word ‘magazines’) which works very similarly to Reddit. And also, there is a Microblogging feature, which works very similar to Twitter.
However I have some FOMO about Kbin because I don’t understand how it all works together.
It doesn’t cost you anything to sign up for, so give it a try.
Personally, I never cared about Twitter-like microblogging - so I’m okay with keeping just a Lemmy account.
It doesn’t cost you anything to sign up for, so give it a try.
The main cost is time, to understand the platform and to find community. I created a Kbin account, but I don’t see myself having the time to be divided between Kbin and Lemmy so I’m hoping not to have to maintain both.
Kbin federates with Lemmy - so users can engage in each other’s posts.
This gives me hope. So is it basically just a different UI? This is where my understanding of the fediverse breaks down.
So is it basically just a different UI? This is where my understanding of the fediverse breaks down.
Think of it like you’re on an iPhone and your friends use an Android.
You don’t need the same phone to communicate. Heck, you don’t need the same carrier or phone plan. You send a text - and they receive a text. It doesn’t matter if you’re using iChat and they’re on Google Message. It all works.
Kbin and Lemmy is like your phone. The one in your hand. It’s your hub.
Kbin isn’t just a different UI. It’s a different piece of software. However, there are protocols that allow an information exchange with Lemmy. So you can view it all from one hub. Whether that hub is Lemmy or Kbin is totally your preference.
Maybe another example…
Imagine you have a PlayStation and your friend has an XBox. Imagine you can cross-platform play games online together. It all works seamlessly and it doesn’t matter if you’re playing on a PlayStation Controller or XBox Controller. There might be a few cosmetic differences, but at the end of the day - they’re the same game and you’re in the same arena.
Now imagine if your PlayStation can cross-play with a Nintendo Switch, and the XBox can cross-play with a PC.
However, PC and Switch do not cross-play.
That’s kind of how the Federation works. Different ‘hubs’ can pick and chose which other ‘hubs’ they talk to. For various reasons. Maybe PC Gamers are too aggressive for Switch Gamers, because Switch Gamers are mostly families.
In the same way, there are instances of Lemmy or other federation websites that you won’t access in your hub because they don’t want to share.
Now imagine if your PlayStation can cross-play with a Nintendo Switch, and the XBox can cross-play with a PC.
However, PC and Switch do not cross-play.
That’s kind of how the Federation works. Different ‘hubs’ can pick and chose which other ‘hubs’ they talk to.
This is one of the best explanations I’ve seen. Thank you.
Slightly off-topic, but your example actually helps lessen my concern with what I understood about “defederating.”
I almost “noped” on using Lemmy because I saw defederating as removing the choice from me as an individual. Instance admins can, at any time, remove my option to engage with users in another instance. Welcome to the echo chamber.
But your example helps me see defederation in a slightly different light. I still get why it’s called “the nuclear option,” but it’s maybe more like “We don’t talk to Nazis, even if they don’t bring up white supremacy while discussing beekeeping.”
So while I still don’t think the decision to defederate by Beehaw makes sense, I do have less concern about defederating as a concept. (Although I still want the ability to transfer my posts and comments to a different instance, should my instance admin make a decision I disagree with.)
So, ‘to defederate’ means a server made an choice not to communicate with another.
For example, if an instance turns into a cesspool for hate groups - then admins of Kbin or Lemmy.World or even Mastadon can chose to block that instance and all their users. They are ‘defederated from…’ the standard instances.
If every major Federation platfrom does this to one instance, they are essentially ‘cut off’.
My best understanding is that Beehaw made a temporary choice to defederate from lemmy.world because world allows open registration. Beehaw administrators want to create a uniquely ‘positive’ online experience and that’s difficult to do when you have a limited mod team and tens of thousands of users from a very open instance pop in. Beehaw’s plan (if not already) is to refederate when they get more mods.
The whole point is to have choice. Like the gaming example in my previous comment, there may be people you can’t access in the Federation because they’re not open to you. Like Nintendo Switch and XBox gamers not cross-playing.
But you’re always welcome to create a second or third account in other instances to get a bigger range of connections. The iOS app betas that exist for Lemmy allow or easy account-switching for this very reason.
It doesn’t cost you anything to sign up for, so give it a try.
Well, it does mean your Lemmy presence is split into yet-another account. I must say, it’s quite annoying to keep creating accounts while you’re “shopping around” different instances.
Kbin and Lemmy are separate pieces of software, yes, but they work in similar ways. The fediverse has a few examples of different software projects that have some overlap in their function and presentation, like Mastodon and Calckey, for instance.
Unlike Lemmy, Kbin has a native microblog feed in addition to the threaded posts like what you see on Lemmy.
Kbin magazines are equivalent to Lemmy communities in just about every way except their name.
ActivityPub is an information-sharing protocol: basically a well-defined set of rules that multiple pieces of software can adopt if they want to share information with each other programmatically.
Any platform that is built on ActivityPub can theoretically communicate with any other platform built on ActivityPub, although they don’t necessarily have to do that in all cases if they don’t want to.
As a lemmy user, you should (assuming everything is working correctly) be able to follow any magazine on Kbin exactly as if it was a community on Lemmy, so no need for FOMO. Also, there’s no reason why you can’t have one account on a Lemmy instance and another on a Kbin instance at the same time.
As a lemmy user, you should (assuming everything is working correctly) be able to follow any magazine on Kbin exactly as if it was a community on Lemmy, so no need for FOMO.
Gamera!! Just came by to reiterate what Chilean Cyborg said. I’m on kbin, in kbin, using kbin, seeing this thread as if it originated on kbin. It can all be confusing, particularly the link formatting. Many posts within the fediverse can be seen without ever leaving your home interface or they can be seen in original form on their home URL. Since I’m on kbin you could try clicking my profile and the mags/communities I follow and then you’ll be browsing kbin from within Lemmy. At least it should work. Fedi tech folk are working hard to make improvements. Imagine a world where Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Reddit weren’t all competitors and users could easily see and interact with any content using their own preferred home interface. That’s happening in the fediverse and getting better each day.
I have been exploring Kbin a little bit and can answer some questions.
ActivityPub is a protocol for sharing content. That content can be of multiple types like posts, threads, blogs, videos, microblogs, etc (I forgot the exact names of those types so the names might be off). On Lemmy we have communities, which are comparable to subreddits, that are hubs for ActivityPub content of the thread type. Mastodon is build for microblogs, which are similar to tweets.
Kbin is indeed similar to Lemmy, as it also runs on ActivityPub content, but apart from having communities (which they call magazines), you can also post and read microblogs there.
So if you like Lemmy but you’re also on Mastodon or are interested in that, maybe Kbin is more suitable for you.
Can you elaborate?
I read that Kbin defederated with Lemmy because it couldn’t initially handle the influx of new users migrating from Reddit, but that it has federated again.
So is it a Lemmy instance, like Beehaw?
I know that Kbin doesn’t use communities (“/c/”) but uses magazines (“/m/”) so I thought it was different.
I also read that there was some new way to post to Lemmy from Mastadon, but I thought those were different, like Reddit and Twitter. But they both rely on something called “ActivityPub”?
So is Kbin similar to Lemmy (by being Reddit-like), but distinct like Mastadon (which is Twitter-like)?
I didn’t have a Twitter account, but was a heavy Reddit user. I don’t have a Mastadon account, but I’m liking Lemmy. However I have some FOMO about Kbin because I don’t understand how it all works together.
No. It’s a different technology - in the same way that Mastadon is a different technology.
However, Kbin federates with Lemmy - so users can engage in each other’s posts.
Kbin does both.
There are communities (they use the word ‘magazines’) which works very similarly to Reddit. And also, there is a Microblogging feature, which works very similar to Twitter.
It doesn’t cost you anything to sign up for, so give it a try.
Personally, I never cared about Twitter-like microblogging - so I’m okay with keeping just a Lemmy account.
This is helpful, thanks.
The main cost is time, to understand the platform and to find community. I created a Kbin account, but I don’t see myself having the time to be divided between Kbin and Lemmy so I’m hoping not to have to maintain both.
This gives me hope. So is it basically just a different UI? This is where my understanding of the fediverse breaks down.
Think of it like you’re on an iPhone and your friends use an Android.
You don’t need the same phone to communicate. Heck, you don’t need the same carrier or phone plan. You send a text - and they receive a text. It doesn’t matter if you’re using iChat and they’re on Google Message. It all works.
Kbin and Lemmy is like your phone. The one in your hand. It’s your hub.
Kbin isn’t just a different UI. It’s a different piece of software. However, there are protocols that allow an information exchange with Lemmy. So you can view it all from one hub. Whether that hub is Lemmy or Kbin is totally your preference.
Maybe another example…
Imagine you have a PlayStation and your friend has an XBox. Imagine you can cross-platform play games online together. It all works seamlessly and it doesn’t matter if you’re playing on a PlayStation Controller or XBox Controller. There might be a few cosmetic differences, but at the end of the day - they’re the same game and you’re in the same arena.
Now imagine if your PlayStation can cross-play with a Nintendo Switch, and the XBox can cross-play with a PC.
However, PC and Switch do not cross-play.
That’s kind of how the Federation works. Different ‘hubs’ can pick and chose which other ‘hubs’ they talk to. For various reasons. Maybe PC Gamers are too aggressive for Switch Gamers, because Switch Gamers are mostly families.
In the same way, there are instances of Lemmy or other federation websites that you won’t access in your hub because they don’t want to share.
This is one of the best explanations I’ve seen. Thank you.
Slightly off-topic, but your example actually helps lessen my concern with what I understood about “defederating.”
I almost “noped” on using Lemmy because I saw defederating as removing the choice from me as an individual. Instance admins can, at any time, remove my option to engage with users in another instance. Welcome to the echo chamber.
But your example helps me see defederation in a slightly different light. I still get why it’s called “the nuclear option,” but it’s maybe more like “We don’t talk to Nazis, even if they don’t bring up white supremacy while discussing beekeeping.”
So while I still don’t think the decision to defederate by Beehaw makes sense, I do have less concern about defederating as a concept. (Although I still want the ability to transfer my posts and comments to a different instance, should my instance admin make a decision I disagree with.)
Thanks again!
So, ‘to defederate’ means a server made an choice not to communicate with another.
For example, if an instance turns into a cesspool for hate groups - then admins of Kbin or Lemmy.World or even Mastadon can chose to block that instance and all their users. They are ‘defederated from…’ the standard instances.
If every major Federation platfrom does this to one instance, they are essentially ‘cut off’.
My best understanding is that Beehaw made a temporary choice to defederate from lemmy.world because world allows open registration. Beehaw administrators want to create a uniquely ‘positive’ online experience and that’s difficult to do when you have a limited mod team and tens of thousands of users from a very open instance pop in. Beehaw’s plan (if not already) is to refederate when they get more mods.
The whole point is to have choice. Like the gaming example in my previous comment, there may be people you can’t access in the Federation because they’re not open to you. Like Nintendo Switch and XBox gamers not cross-playing.
But you’re always welcome to create a second or third account in other instances to get a bigger range of connections. The iOS app betas that exist for Lemmy allow or easy account-switching for this very reason.
Well, it does mean your Lemmy presence is split into yet-another account. I must say, it’s quite annoying to keep creating accounts while you’re “shopping around” different instances.
@Gamera8ID
Kbin.social is federating with lemmy rn, that’s how I see your comment.
Kbin and Lemmy are separate pieces of software, yes, but they work in similar ways. The fediverse has a few examples of different software projects that have some overlap in their function and presentation, like Mastodon and Calckey, for instance.
Unlike Lemmy, Kbin has a native microblog feed in addition to the threaded posts like what you see on Lemmy.
Kbin magazines are equivalent to Lemmy communities in just about every way except their name.
ActivityPub is an information-sharing protocol: basically a well-defined set of rules that multiple pieces of software can adopt if they want to share information with each other programmatically.
Any platform that is built on ActivityPub can theoretically communicate with any other platform built on ActivityPub, although they don’t necessarily have to do that in all cases if they don’t want to.
As a lemmy user, you should (assuming everything is working correctly) be able to follow any magazine on Kbin exactly as if it was a community on Lemmy, so no need for FOMO. Also, there’s no reason why you can’t have one account on a Lemmy instance and another on a Kbin instance at the same time.
This is what I was hoping to hear. Thanks.
Gamera!! Just came by to reiterate what Chilean Cyborg said. I’m on kbin, in kbin, using kbin, seeing this thread as if it originated on kbin. It can all be confusing, particularly the link formatting. Many posts within the fediverse can be seen without ever leaving your home interface or they can be seen in original form on their home URL. Since I’m on kbin you could try clicking my profile and the mags/communities I follow and then you’ll be browsing kbin from within Lemmy. At least it should work. Fedi tech folk are working hard to make improvements. Imagine a world where Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Reddit weren’t all competitors and users could easily see and interact with any content using their own preferred home interface. That’s happening in the fediverse and getting better each day.
I have been exploring Kbin a little bit and can answer some questions.
ActivityPub is a protocol for sharing content. That content can be of multiple types like posts, threads, blogs, videos, microblogs, etc (I forgot the exact names of those types so the names might be off). On Lemmy we have communities, which are comparable to subreddits, that are hubs for ActivityPub content of the thread type. Mastodon is build for microblogs, which are similar to tweets.
Kbin is indeed similar to Lemmy, as it also runs on ActivityPub content, but apart from having communities (which they call magazines), you can also post and read microblogs there.
So if you like Lemmy but you’re also on Mastodon or are interested in that, maybe Kbin is more suitable for you.
Very helpful. Thanks!