In my opinion, the people like Maupin, Jackson Hinkle, and especially the Infrared YouTube channel (people like Haz) have not engaged in the debate in good faith AT ALL.
But moreover, I do believe that patriotism, certainly “American patriotism”, has no place in the ML movement. I believe in the working-class, but I wouldn’t want to muddy the waters with cheap appeals to what would essentially be working-class conservatism and chauvinism. I won’t say much more than the fact that my comrades and I have been talking about this extensively and all agree: decolonization comes first and foremost. Landback is a must and many people, of all races and ethnicities, have been hurt by colonialism and neo-colonialism as well as imperialism both within and outside the United States, the original indigenous inhabitants being a prime example.
I hope I haven’t said anything to offend anyone, but I support Landback and decolonialism. I even originally became an ML in part due to Berta Caceres’s murder in Central America. In the CPUSA, Browder was very controversial and was fought against as he became more and more unpopular (until he was finally ousted, in huge part because of his “Americanism”). SO even then: the issue of “American patriotism” was suspect. I think that we live in a much more radical and interesting time where decolonization must take center stage now more than ever before.
That Haz would say that “indigenous peoples” or Native Americans have no place in the ML movement is folly; we should be doing more to not only comfort them but make us more available to them as a movement, not decry them or anything.
Anyways, enough Twitter drama. I took a break from most social media and I feel much better now. But I think Maupin/Haz (Infrared)/Jackson Hinkle have belittled and side-stepped the issues at stake, from what I’ve seen of their content.
It does the wider communist movement a disservice when people claiming to be CPUSA members (who obviously aren’t or can’t be traced back to in the databases) and people who certainly are CPUSA members (albeit, from what we can tell, a minority so far in the organization) try to appeal to right-wingers and sometimes even believe in their nonsense. Well, I can’t say much more about the organization other than what’s on display on Twitter, but I do think that one should be open about all this.
Welp, that’s all I have for now.
I posted this below, but I always ask these US “patriotic socialists” what there is to be patriotic about with respect to the US colonialist project?
Its always one of two reasons: “multiculturalism”, which Dunbar-Ortiz has a wonderful article about here, or the labor struggles of the early 20th century, which undeniably had the aim of destroying most of the foundations of US society, and were correctly labelled “unpatriotic” by the red-scare-mongers of the time.
Every pillar of US society (which all mostly come from the Roman empire), its conquest of land, genocide of the native peoples, its founding slave-owners, its founding documents, its private-property system, its imperialist goals, are antithetical to socialist aims, and there is nothing worth being patriotic about there.
Hey, this is an aside, but thank you so much for recommending An Indigenous People’s History of the United States. I found it a few weeks ago thanks to your posts!
No probs!
I think the author of the article linked in the comment you replied to is the one who wrote it.
Surely you can tell that this objectively places you with the red scare mongers, against the communists?
I am not American, in fact America has had a negative effect on my country with it’s military occupation and corporations but the fact of the matter is that American socialists have to be patriots if they want to win, because only socialism can actually serve the masses, the only groups who benefit form Imperialism are the ruling classes, it is in the interests of the American working class to overthrow their oppressors just as much as it in is in my interest and the interests of the whole world.
Every major Communist party across the world (including in the U.S.) opposes flag burning of the American flag by Americans because it is anarchistic and divorces them from the responsibility of themselves having to end imperialism and Americanism. Of course it is understandable if black or native people oppose the United States project but any Communist recognises that they are entitled to self-determination and they are still patriotic for America as in the people and if they are not they are patriotic for something (their own nation).
It is only ever whites who have no patriotism for anything and you can not call yourself a Communist if you are not a patriot because being a Communist means that you have a deep love for your people and want to see things get better for them. Socialist patriotism does not mean you defend everything the state does, no in fact it means that you oppose it because you have a deep love for the people and want to see them do better and free themselves from the shackles of oppression and in the case of the United States them doing so means that the boot of imperialism gets off the neck of the third world. Only then can the world prosper and peace be enjoyed.
The quotes linked above together demonstrate this perfectly, the Fidel quote is particularly striking because it just goes to show how American self proclaimed Communists have been doing the same shit of flag burning for 50 years with no success to speak of whatsoever… and it is no wonder when every international Communist keeps telling them the same things over and over again.
Your question is rhetorical and can only have one answer: no serious person can find pride in a colonialist project, assuming you don’t have hate for a people, and you don’t have class interest i.e. are benefiting off the murders yourself. It’s a good point though because it shows exactly the point of contention: the question is not to be proud of the settler-colonial reality of the US.
Instead, consider this: do you live in present day US? do you want to build socialism here? Do you believe socialism will help our people? Socialism would by definition destroy the imperial projects of the US abroad, so wouldn’t that also help people the world over?
Think of the people living in present day US, the people who have been wronged by capitalism, racial injustice, for generations and generations since slavery, since the colonial expansion of the US, year after year, for the profits and power of the ruling imperialist bourgeoisie. How many lives have been lost, how many ways have we been wronged and abused? How many imperialist wars were forced onto the world by a handful of oligarchs?
If this reality fills you with a sense of justice and love for the people, the real working people here and the people of the world, if this fills you with a sense of duty and responsibility to take over the Empire for humanity’s sake, then not only are you in accordance with a inevitable reality: socialism will win, but you are, by the strict definition of the word, being patriotic.
What is often done in these conversations is to take the bourgeoisie’s lies as the only reality: if you love your neighbors, you will support the destruction of Libya. There is division in this world, you have to take a side, but it’s not us vs the thieves and murders on Wall St and in DC, it’s the Asians and Muslims and that’s why we had to bomb them. You live paycheck to paycheck, cannot pay medical bills, have no power in the country with the highest incarceration rate in the world, but you have all these “freedoms” and that’s why they hate America.
These are all lies and we cannot let them confuse us. We do love our people, but not the bourgeoisie. We do have to take a side, but it’s our side, the working people, immigrant or not. We are patriotic, but it’s not for the imperialist and settler colonialist state (which are realities, no one denies this) that the bourgeoisie wants us to think is good for us, but we are patriotic for the socialist future we will build together as the people of present day America. We do want freedom, but it’s not the bourgeoisie’s definition of freedom, it’s power to the people.
In a way, it’s about what do you mean by “America”, the people or the capitalist settler colonial state? What do you mean by patriotic, loving the people and being in service of them or supporting the imperialist war machine? To reason in good faith, we must realize each side is referring to different things. When you point out the murderous history and present of the USA, you are not blaming the working class or shunning their revolutionary spirit. In the same way, when you say a better socialist world is possible, you are not denying the worst of imperialism, colonialism, capitalism.