What the fuck good does that comment do? Its like you’re just trying to be a dick.
Why focus the shade on them? The one big recent anti war protest in DC had a bunch of maga right wingers, is that the type of class unity you would rather have while ragging on the anarchists? Isn’t unity with fascists one of your biggest historical gripes with Ukraine?
The fact that the right wingers are protesting the war while anarchists are silent on the subject is precisely the problem. Why are people who claim to be on the left ceding the anti war narrative to the right?
Communists have been consistently against the war, and our reasons for opposing NATO proxy wars have absolutely fuck all to do with whatever the right is doing.
Every discussion I’ve had with anarchists on the subject resulted in me having to listen to anarchists regurgitate NAFO talking points.
Those right wingers are just there to be contrarian and will show up anywhere someone is willing tog ive them a platform. They’re also skewing the narrative to make anyone antiwar sound like they align with the right wing when you try to argue with liberals about it. Every single time I question that war to meat space liberals they go right to calling me a republican trumpet.
Of course they are, and because they’re monopolizing anti-war narrative that’s where the public will turn once faith in liberalism collapses. Meanwhile, look at the thread with poVoq here to see what I’m talking about regarding the anarchist position. It’s indistinguishable from the neoliberal rhetoric about the war.
So side with the fascists as long as they align with your echo chamber? Allow the public sentiment to move further right as you platform their narratives. That doesn’t sound like the right move, no pun intended.
You really don’t see how fucked up this framing is. Being against war is not siding with the fascists, it’s having basic human decency. Using that logic, since the fascists are against current neoliberal system as well, then the left should support that too right?
In what world is siding with NATO ghouls a more reasonable position than opposing the war. Why do anarchists claim that the left can’t have its own independent anti war position?
I didn’t say anti war means siding with fascists. I said giving fascists a platform in any context is aligning yourself with them, whatever ideas you agree on.
I also never said siding with NATO is a good thing, and everyone I know who calls themselves an anarchist has been calling out their bullshit as well.
What I am saying is that calling all anarchists collectively NATO shills is not helping your argument and only serves to alienate potential allies against capital. You likely have more common ground with them than the fascists being platformed at things such as ‘rage against the war machine’. Oh also the rage against the machine title is super fucking cringe. Reminds me of magas dancing to killing in the name at the trump rallies.
Nowhere am I advocating siding or aligning with fascists. My whole complaint is that western left failed to put up its own independent anti-war position, and now the fascists have monopolized it. The worse the economic blow back gets the more people will become disillusioned with the war and they will listen to the people who are rallying against it right now. Surely you see how dangerous that is right?
I understand that there are anarchists who are against the war and understand that NATO created this crisis. However, there there are also plenty of anarchists like povoq who are parroting NATO propaganda, and there hasn’t been any coherent public position against the war from any major anarchist organizations that I’m aware of.
I’m mostly just deeply disappointed by the position western left has taken on this war, and I’m genuinely concerned about what’s going to happen going forward once it becomes clear that this war was a debacle. Compare this to how the left reacted to the war in Vietnam for contrast.
Why is it that red-brown “communists” are happy protesting with their new (old) fascist friends for a peace they full well know will not come by protesting in western capitals, while the imperialist aggressor is brutally suppressing all anti-war protests in their own country?
Anarchist are busy actually providing humanitarian aid in Ukraine or sabotaging war efforts inside Russia.
Anarchists are busy promoting NATO proxy war at home and ensuring that thousands of people are dying in this conflict. That’s what you people are actually achieving. Anarchist position always perfectly aligns with the US foreign policy because anarchists are really just liberals in the end. Just come out and say it openly that you want this war to go on and Ukrainians to keep dying for your liberal ideology. That’s what it’s all about in the end.
Or when USA decides no more free war machines. I also wouldn’t call Russia’s actions imperialist as everything going on in eastern Europe the Russian response to NATO expansion.
But I guess I’m just a liberal according to the tankies.
Thing is, from the US’s standpoint this is, to put it coldly, a great cost-benefit ratio. The cost to the US has been chump change, with much of the transferred equipment nearing end of life anyway. Meanwhile, European allies are fiercely determined to make this very painful for Russia so there isn’t a repeat performance.
I also wouldn’t call Russia’s actions imperialist as everything going on in eastern Europe the Russian response to NATO expansion.
If you buy the narrative about NATO expansion being equivalent to imperialism, sure. Or you could see it as a bunch of countries being afraid of Russia, so they joined NATO to gain protection. The narrative that NATO is going to attack Russia is simply wrong. It never has attacked Russia, and even with sending weapons to Ukraine it is supplying a nation purely with weapons against a foreign invader. Russia citizens could be immune from NATO supplied weapons tomorrow if Russia stopped the invasion.
Both can be true the same time. The Russian response is clearly imperialist because they consider eastern Europe to be part of their empire and thus fight against another empire trying to pull these now independent countries to their side. But that is IMHO no justification for invading another country, especially when these now independent countries have every reason to be suspicious of their former Russian colonizers.
Well when a ‘democatic’ state next to yours undergoes a coup orchestrated by western powers at the behest of the global banking system and a bunch of people there call bullshit on it and ask for your help what do you do?
They’re imperialist though. Putin is raging about restoring the old Soviet bloc and these states not having a justification for existing outside Russia. And then invading another sovereign country with that excuse can’t get more imperialist.
Complete BS is what you’re peddling here. The reality is that there will likely not be an Ukraine left at the end of the war, and this might turn into a full on global war and a nuclear holocaust. The imbeciles in the west who continue to support this war thinking that they can dominate Russia instead of sitting down and negotiating are driving us towards extinction.
And you just have to look at whom the rest of the world is aligning with to see who is on the right side of history here. There’s a reason that the global south is not toeing the line of western colonizers in this conflict.
How is this contradicting what I said? And (some of) the rest of the world is taking a neutral stance which is a purely utilitarian position and says nothing about what sympathies they have for either side.
P.S. the colonizers in this case are clearly the Russians. That is a historic fact.
All your support for the war is achieving is ensuring that thousands of people die and that we live in a more dangerous world driving us towards the end of human civilization and possible human extinction. This is what you are doing.
The tiny percentage of the world population living in the west wants to have a hegemony over the entire planet and is willing to risk a nuclear holocaust to achieve that. Anarchists are firmly at the forefront of that.
not an anarchist in sight I bet
Too focused about staying in their basements making posts about us “denying genocide”
What the fuck good does that comment do? Its like you’re just trying to be a dick.
Why focus the shade on them? The one big recent anti war protest in DC had a bunch of maga right wingers, is that the type of class unity you would rather have while ragging on the anarchists? Isn’t unity with fascists one of your biggest historical gripes with Ukraine?
The fact that the right wingers are protesting the war while anarchists are silent on the subject is precisely the problem. Why are people who claim to be on the left ceding the anti war narrative to the right?
Communists have been consistently against the war, and our reasons for opposing NATO proxy wars have absolutely fuck all to do with whatever the right is doing.
Every discussion I’ve had with anarchists on the subject resulted in me having to listen to anarchists regurgitate NAFO talking points.
Those right wingers are just there to be contrarian and will show up anywhere someone is willing tog ive them a platform. They’re also skewing the narrative to make anyone antiwar sound like they align with the right wing when you try to argue with liberals about it. Every single time I question that war to meat space liberals they go right to calling me a republican trumpet.
Of course they are, and because they’re monopolizing anti-war narrative that’s where the public will turn once faith in liberalism collapses. Meanwhile, look at the thread with poVoq here to see what I’m talking about regarding the anarchist position. It’s indistinguishable from the neoliberal rhetoric about the war.
So side with the fascists as long as they align with your echo chamber? Allow the public sentiment to move further right as you platform their narratives. That doesn’t sound like the right move, no pun intended.
You really don’t see how fucked up this framing is. Being against war is not siding with the fascists, it’s having basic human decency. Using that logic, since the fascists are against current neoliberal system as well, then the left should support that too right?
In what world is siding with NATO ghouls a more reasonable position than opposing the war. Why do anarchists claim that the left can’t have its own independent anti war position?
I didn’t say anti war means siding with fascists. I said giving fascists a platform in any context is aligning yourself with them, whatever ideas you agree on.
I also never said siding with NATO is a good thing, and everyone I know who calls themselves an anarchist has been calling out their bullshit as well.
What I am saying is that calling all anarchists collectively NATO shills is not helping your argument and only serves to alienate potential allies against capital. You likely have more common ground with them than the fascists being platformed at things such as ‘rage against the war machine’. Oh also the rage against the machine title is super fucking cringe. Reminds me of magas dancing to killing in the name at the trump rallies.
Nowhere am I advocating siding or aligning with fascists. My whole complaint is that western left failed to put up its own independent anti-war position, and now the fascists have monopolized it. The worse the economic blow back gets the more people will become disillusioned with the war and they will listen to the people who are rallying against it right now. Surely you see how dangerous that is right?
I understand that there are anarchists who are against the war and understand that NATO created this crisis. However, there there are also plenty of anarchists like povoq who are parroting NATO propaganda, and there hasn’t been any coherent public position against the war from any major anarchist organizations that I’m aware of.
I’m mostly just deeply disappointed by the position western left has taken on this war, and I’m genuinely concerned about what’s going to happen going forward once it becomes clear that this war was a debacle. Compare this to how the left reacted to the war in Vietnam for contrast.
Why is it that red-brown “communists” are happy protesting with their new (old) fascist friends for a peace they full well know will not come by protesting in western capitals, while the imperialist aggressor is brutally suppressing all anti-war protests in their own country?
Anarchist are busy actually providing humanitarian aid in Ukraine or sabotaging war efforts inside Russia.
Anarchists are busy promoting NATO proxy war at home and ensuring that thousands of people are dying in this conflict. That’s what you people are actually achieving. Anarchist position always perfectly aligns with the US foreign policy because anarchists are really just liberals in the end. Just come out and say it openly that you want this war to go on and Ukrainians to keep dying for your liberal ideology. That’s what it’s all about in the end.
This is complete BS and you know it. This war will only end when Russia decides it has had enough of their current imperialist conquest.
Or when USA decides no more free war machines. I also wouldn’t call Russia’s actions imperialist as everything going on in eastern Europe the Russian response to NATO expansion.
But I guess I’m just a liberal according to the tankies.
Thing is, from the US’s standpoint this is, to put it coldly, a great cost-benefit ratio. The cost to the US has been chump change, with much of the transferred equipment nearing end of life anyway. Meanwhile, European allies are fiercely determined to make this very painful for Russia so there isn’t a repeat performance.
If you buy the narrative about NATO expansion being equivalent to imperialism, sure. Or you could see it as a bunch of countries being afraid of Russia, so they joined NATO to gain protection. The narrative that NATO is going to attack Russia is simply wrong. It never has attacked Russia, and even with sending weapons to Ukraine it is supplying a nation purely with weapons against a foreign invader. Russia citizens could be immune from NATO supplied weapons tomorrow if Russia stopped the invasion.
You keep peddling this bullshit, but RAND literally published a paper that contradicts your narrative https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR3000/RR3063/RAND_RR3063.pdf
Both can be true the same time. The Russian response is clearly imperialist because they consider eastern Europe to be part of their empire and thus fight against another empire trying to pull these now independent countries to their side. But that is IMHO no justification for invading another country, especially when these now independent countries have every reason to be suspicious of their former Russian colonizers.
Well when a ‘democatic’ state next to yours undergoes a coup orchestrated by western powers at the behest of the global banking system and a bunch of people there call bullshit on it and ask for your help what do you do?
I love how all you do is just regurgitate NAFO talking points.
They’re imperialist though. Putin is raging about restoring the old Soviet bloc and these states not having a justification for existing outside Russia. And then invading another sovereign country with that excuse can’t get more imperialist.
Complete BS is what you’re peddling here. The reality is that there will likely not be an Ukraine left at the end of the war, and this might turn into a full on global war and a nuclear holocaust. The imbeciles in the west who continue to support this war thinking that they can dominate Russia instead of sitting down and negotiating are driving us towards extinction.
And you just have to look at whom the rest of the world is aligning with to see who is on the right side of history here. There’s a reason that the global south is not toeing the line of western colonizers in this conflict.
How is this contradicting what I said? And (some of) the rest of the world is taking a neutral stance which is a purely utilitarian position and says nothing about what sympathies they have for either side.
P.S. the colonizers in this case are clearly the Russians. That is a historic fact.
The rest of the world is not taking a neutral stance at all. In fact, the rest of the world is pretty openly supporting Russia and denouncing the west at this point. https://usrussiaaccord.org/acura-viewpoint-krishen-mehta-the-ukraine-war-viewed-from-the-global-south/
All your support for the war is achieving is ensuring that thousands of people die and that we live in a more dangerous world driving us towards the end of human civilization and possible human extinction. This is what you are doing.
The tiny percentage of the world population living in the west wants to have a hegemony over the entire planet and is willing to risk a nuclear holocaust to achieve that. Anarchists are firmly at the forefront of that.