While I don’t think the metaverse is a good idea, it’s too early to judge its success. It has incredible potential. When you look at what an immersive virtual world could offer you, ideas of hardware getting in the way seem like paltry excuses.
I mean, can you imagine the desire, of being able to leave behind your real world, your dirty, exhausting, imperfect real world, where you are weak and ugly and unsuccessful and going to a virtual world where you can experience whatever you want?
No, it’s not real and won’t be able to convince you it is for another fifty years or so, and yes, the hidden downsides will soon be found to be worse than social media, likely worse than addictions to drugs and mental illnesses, but it won’t matter, none of it will matter, because the pull is too strong. If the metaverse becomes entirely a thing, people will throw away their lives for it, and we will all likely hate it and want it.
To judge a potential future metaverse by looking at half life is like judging modern smartphones by looking at brick phones from thirty years. Half life is a very primitive version of what could be.
I am dramatizing here, and looking quite far into the future through science fiction lens, but then, that’s always been the thing about the metaverse, hasn’t it? Tech oligopolies bringing into reality what dystopian science fiction books warned against, not held up as an ideal. But there’s money, and that’s all that matters.
If you want more practical examples, just look at what Zuckerberg showed off, meeting with people. We all know the incredible convenience of being able to video call someone, to sit in the comfort of our home yet see and talk to them. Now take that to entirely new level, where you can sit in your home, and yet be with someone else in almost every sense. That is convenience.
It may seem like a silly idea, but silly ideas do not convince all the biggest companies to invest billions. There’s money to be made, and that’s all that matters.
I mean, can you imagine the desire, of being able to leave behind your real world, your dirty, exhausting, imperfect real world, where you are weak and ugly and unsuccessful and going to a virtual world where you can experience whatever you want?
All just through a head set? I honestly don’t quite buy this (admitting fully that I might be wrong) and really can’t relate to the desire you are describing either.
It’s not real and won’t look / feel real. So maybe there is a one or two hour entertainment to be had, but I can’t see this overhyped potential and VR being used “everywhere”.
Consider all the video chats we are having since the pandemic at work. What did 80% people do pretty quickly? Turn off their cameras, turn off their mics, while they are browsing the web in the background or doing the dishes, letting the meeting/call pass by. Would any of those go into VR to experience a virtual version of their colleague without being forced? I don’t think so.
Think of how real other fake things we like are: bleach blone hair with dark roots showing (men still go for it), silicone boobs, fake nails, men’s hair dye, fake tans, bras that make boobs look pointy… People still use them and many other people still find the fakeness more attractive than the original state of things.
Its the greater potential for controlling the population that scares me. yes, there are many morons, but sometimes we need their numbers to help keep authority figures (tyranny of any kind) in check. When people live outside of reality, they rarely participate fully in meaningful activities outside of their jobs. VR sounds like soma to me, a way to placate the dumb-masses (dumb asses).
Again, I’m not clear on what a virtual world could offer you that stuff like Second Life didn’t already offer. My argument is that hardware simply introduces an additional barrier to the idea that hasn’t caught on to begin with.
VR doesn’t allow you to leave behind your imperfect real world any more than a good show, game, or a book. Having actually used VR, I can firmly say that the level of immersion simply isn’t there. For VR to feel truly immersive you’d likely need to have some kind of a brain/computer interface and we’re many decades away from that. I’m sure headsets will keep getting better and smaller, but real immersion requires simulating other senses as well. Basic stuff like moving around in VR without getting nauseous is an unsolved problem right now.
Meeting people with a VR headset on isn’t really that different from meeting people by looking at the screen. In fact, this kind of stuff seems far more promising to me.
The fact that people are pouring billions into this idea, doesn’t mean that it’s magically going to overcome all the challenges and all the competition. My main argument here is that VR has to compete with other forms of entertainment, and many existing options provide high quality entertainment with a lower entry barrier. This is the fatal flaw that I see in the foreseeable future.
Supposedly the internet was most used, in the beginning, by jen watching porn. if they want to make VR popular, they need to make porn interactive somehow. Nodes that can be attached to a man’s sensitive areas and maybe to his hands. That would take a long time to put on - if there were tiny wires in a super-thin body suit that were a bit like nylon stockings, then that might help. That’s a great way to finance it, I think. The technology isn’t there, yet. But, I think robotics technology could be combined with VR somewhat - in the suit, that is.
Look, I know VR or AR tech is not there yet, I’m not claiming it is. I’m not even claiming the metaverse will be a success. I’m just saying, don’t dismiss the incredible potential it has
I agree that VR and AR have a lot of potential, so I’m not dismissing technology as such here. My argument is specifically against metaverse as a product.
Fully agree with you here and particularly your longer response above.
VR / AR has some fantastic use cases in industrial work, where experienced workers can overshadow a field person and be enriched by some sort of global database that covers whatever that field person is working on. There are probably other niche tech use cases as well.
As for an entertainment gadget that is widely used, I just don’t think it is as immersive as portrayed or will be in the foreseeable future.
it seems you are confusing the facebook product name, which was stolen from Neal Stephenson’s Snow Crash (1992), with various immersive virtual reality concepts which have been introduced multiple times throughout science fiction, for example William Gibson’s Neuromancer (1984).
so when people condemn the facebook product, it does not mean they condemn the concept - which predates facebook by decades.
it is no surprise that people confuse the facebook product with the concept, because facebook has spent alot of money trying to convince everyone they own the concept. they absolutely do not and this is basically a massive fraud taking place in front of our eyes.
every reason you gave for why it could be good, is all the more reason why this needs to be kept safe from facebook’s claws
I’m not sure what gave you that impression, I’m just talking about the metaverse the metaverse, which facebook owns no more than they own the internet. Plenty of other companies are also investing in the concept, like microsoft with their blizzard acquisition. While facebook is branding themselves as Meta and trying to be known as the main compnay behind it, even they don’t claim to invent or own the metaverse.
i disagreee with that. Targeting people who want to escape reality and then also knowing how impuslive they are, how smart, and which of their buttons to push is extremely powerful.
It is certainly human nature to want to escape reality. Drugs, alcohol, porn, TV/movies and glossy magazines are escape from reality - as are strip bars, make-up, hair dye, fake nails, Spanx or girdles, perfume, etc…
Until prices come down for those glasses- and practical uses are made for them - and maybe the size is smaller to make them convenient to carry with you or even leave on, this will be rather slow.
While I don’t think the metaverse is a good idea, it’s too early to judge its success. It has incredible potential. When you look at what an immersive virtual world could offer you, ideas of hardware getting in the way seem like paltry excuses.
I mean, can you imagine the desire, of being able to leave behind your real world, your dirty, exhausting, imperfect real world, where you are weak and ugly and unsuccessful and going to a virtual world where you can experience whatever you want?
No, it’s not real and won’t be able to convince you it is for another fifty years or so, and yes, the hidden downsides will soon be found to be worse than social media, likely worse than addictions to drugs and mental illnesses, but it won’t matter, none of it will matter, because the pull is too strong. If the metaverse becomes entirely a thing, people will throw away their lives for it, and we will all likely hate it and want it.
To judge a potential future metaverse by looking at half life is like judging modern smartphones by looking at brick phones from thirty years. Half life is a very primitive version of what could be.
I am dramatizing here, and looking quite far into the future through science fiction lens, but then, that’s always been the thing about the metaverse, hasn’t it? Tech oligopolies bringing into reality what dystopian science fiction books warned against, not held up as an ideal. But there’s money, and that’s all that matters.
If you want more practical examples, just look at what Zuckerberg showed off, meeting with people. We all know the incredible convenience of being able to video call someone, to sit in the comfort of our home yet see and talk to them. Now take that to entirely new level, where you can sit in your home, and yet be with someone else in almost every sense. That is convenience.
It may seem like a silly idea, but silly ideas do not convince all the biggest companies to invest billions. There’s money to be made, and that’s all that matters.
whew
I’m in quite the inspired mood right now
Metaverse wedding:
FFXIV wedding:
All just through a head set? I honestly don’t quite buy this (admitting fully that I might be wrong) and really can’t relate to the desire you are describing either.
It’s not real and won’t look / feel real. So maybe there is a one or two hour entertainment to be had, but I can’t see this overhyped potential and VR being used “everywhere”.
Consider all the video chats we are having since the pandemic at work. What did 80% people do pretty quickly? Turn off their cameras, turn off their mics, while they are browsing the web in the background or doing the dishes, letting the meeting/call pass by. Would any of those go into VR to experience a virtual version of their colleague without being forced? I don’t think so.
Think of how real other fake things we like are: bleach blone hair with dark roots showing (men still go for it), silicone boobs, fake nails, men’s hair dye, fake tans, bras that make boobs look pointy… People still use them and many other people still find the fakeness more attractive than the original state of things. Its the greater potential for controlling the population that scares me. yes, there are many morons, but sometimes we need their numbers to help keep authority figures (tyranny of any kind) in check. When people live outside of reality, they rarely participate fully in meaningful activities outside of their jobs. VR sounds like soma to me, a way to placate the dumb-masses (dumb asses).
Again, I’m not clear on what a virtual world could offer you that stuff like Second Life didn’t already offer. My argument is that hardware simply introduces an additional barrier to the idea that hasn’t caught on to begin with.
VR doesn’t allow you to leave behind your imperfect real world any more than a good show, game, or a book. Having actually used VR, I can firmly say that the level of immersion simply isn’t there. For VR to feel truly immersive you’d likely need to have some kind of a brain/computer interface and we’re many decades away from that. I’m sure headsets will keep getting better and smaller, but real immersion requires simulating other senses as well. Basic stuff like moving around in VR without getting nauseous is an unsolved problem right now.
Meeting people with a VR headset on isn’t really that different from meeting people by looking at the screen. In fact, this kind of stuff seems far more promising to me.
The fact that people are pouring billions into this idea, doesn’t mean that it’s magically going to overcome all the challenges and all the competition. My main argument here is that VR has to compete with other forms of entertainment, and many existing options provide high quality entertainment with a lower entry barrier. This is the fatal flaw that I see in the foreseeable future.
Supposedly the internet was most used, in the beginning, by jen watching porn. if they want to make VR popular, they need to make porn interactive somehow. Nodes that can be attached to a man’s sensitive areas and maybe to his hands. That would take a long time to put on - if there were tiny wires in a super-thin body suit that were a bit like nylon stockings, then that might help. That’s a great way to finance it, I think. The technology isn’t there, yet. But, I think robotics technology could be combined with VR somewhat - in the suit, that is.
they’ll just partner up with RealDoll
re @jazzfes@lemmy.ml as well
Look, I know VR or AR tech is not there yet, I’m not claiming it is. I’m not even claiming the metaverse will be a success. I’m just saying, don’t dismiss the incredible potential it has
I agree that VR and AR have a lot of potential, so I’m not dismissing technology as such here. My argument is specifically against metaverse as a product.
Fully agree with you here and particularly your longer response above.
VR / AR has some fantastic use cases in industrial work, where experienced workers can overshadow a field person and be enriched by some sort of global database that covers whatever that field person is working on. There are probably other niche tech use cases as well.
As for an entertainment gadget that is widely used, I just don’t think it is as immersive as portrayed or will be in the foreseeable future.
it seems you are confusing the facebook product name, which was stolen from Neal Stephenson’s Snow Crash (1992), with various immersive virtual reality concepts which have been introduced multiple times throughout science fiction, for example William Gibson’s Neuromancer (1984).
so when people condemn the facebook product, it does not mean they condemn the concept - which predates facebook by decades.
it is no surprise that people confuse the facebook product with the concept, because facebook has spent alot of money trying to convince everyone they own the concept. they absolutely do not and this is basically a massive fraud taking place in front of our eyes.
every reason you gave for why it could be good, is all the more reason why this needs to be kept safe from facebook’s claws
I’m not sure what gave you that impression, I’m just talking about the metaverse the metaverse, which facebook owns no more than they own the internet. Plenty of other companies are also investing in the concept, like microsoft with their blizzard acquisition. While facebook is branding themselves as Meta and trying to be known as the main compnay behind it, even they don’t claim to invent or own the metaverse.
ok sorry i didn’t realise you were making more general statements.
imo facebook has demonstrated they’re simply too evil to be trusted as the main company behind a concept like this.
Agree, but potential doesn’t mean positive - No company that can’t do respectful traditional website/ecosystem is going to do better in a metaverse.
i disagreee with that. Targeting people who want to escape reality and then also knowing how impuslive they are, how smart, and which of their buttons to push is extremely powerful.
Ray Bradbury would like his manuscript back.
bfwshah, I wish it was just a manuscript. This isn’t quite the impression I got from Fahrenheit 451 though.
It is certainly human nature to want to escape reality. Drugs, alcohol, porn, TV/movies and glossy magazines are escape from reality - as are strip bars, make-up, hair dye, fake nails, Spanx or girdles, perfume, etc… Until prices come down for those glasses- and practical uses are made for them - and maybe the size is smaller to make them convenient to carry with you or even leave on, this will be rather slow.