Young voters overwhelmingly say they would support President Biden over former President Trump in a hypothetical head-to-head match-up if the 2024 presidential election were held today, according to a poll released Wednesday.
In the Economist/YouGov poll — conducted via web-based interviews Dec. 16-18 — more than half (53 percent) of registered voters under 30 said they would support Biden, and less than a quarter (24 percent) said they would support Trump.
Another 10 percent said they would support another candidate, 4 percent said they were not sure, and 9 percent said they wouldn’t vote.
Young voters are being given really shitty choices.
Doesn’t matter, over half won’t be voting. Even less than normal if GOP state legislatures do away with mail in ballots or automatic mailed request forms from COVID times.
The less people who vote the more elections Republicans win.
Make sure your friends go vote (unless they’re trumpeter assholes maybe, then don’t talk about it).
Yeah these polls always being in terms like “registered voters” or “likely voters”. Where as they really should poll “eligible to vote” instead to get full picture of the societal political mood situation.
Less than 50% voter turnout is a sign of a healthy democracy /s
Should I have added a /s ? My bad lmao, that’s on me
This is obviously sarcasm lol
In what way?
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This must be a joke.
Sharkfucker420, fuckin awesome username lol. Is this a joke or no?
This is a joke lol, added a /s for clarity
I wonder when this magical time was where voting for the president had great choices. What many young voters fail to understand is that it’s not all about the president. Get enough Democrats into Congress, and they will be able to vote for progressive legislation, and if you send that to your far-from-ideal president’s desk, they’ll sign it.
It’s certainly a much easier task than having an awesome progressive president who begs a near 50-50 Congress to pass good bills, and it just doesn’t happen.
Get enough Democrats into Congress, and they will be able to vote for progressive legislation,
We had 60 and they killed the public option. How many do we need?
People need to study how the Moral Majority took control of the GOP. Nixon was a dead duck after he lost his California Senate race, but he knew that an ex-Vice President was a big deal in small places. He campaigned tirelessly for years, getting lots of Reps, Governors, and Mayors elected. In 1968 he breezed in because he had the Party base on his side.
The MMs did the same. They would show up at every local GOP meeting with enoughvotes to get their agenda enacted. One day the Party big shots looked around and realized that all the dog catchers, county clerks, and sheriffs in their state were MMs.
What is an MM?
Abbreviation for the Moral Majority that they mentioned in the first paragraph.
Oh gotcha thanks.
Thanks for explaining
Ok, so we need to force the system to change outside of its normal paths of power to have choices. No one thinks this time existed, everyone understands the current situation is bad.
People need to study how the Moral Majority took control of the GOP. Nixon was a dead duck after he lost his California Senate race, but he knew that an ex-Vice President was a big deal in small places. He campaigned tirelessly for years, getting lots of Reps, Governors, and Mayors elected. In 1968 he breezed in because he had the Party base on his side.
The MMs did the same. They would show up at every local GOP meeting with enoughvotes to get their agenda enacted. One day the Party big shots looked around and realized that all the dog catchers, county clerks, and sheriffs in their state were MMs.
repeated comment
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There is no exact number. The more there are, the bolder they can be.
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Please tell me you’re not talking about the two month window in 2010 where they had a filibuster-proof majority, and passed a major healthcare reform bill, but it was kneecapped because it relied on Joe Lieberman to pass. Because that’s a case where a couple more Democrats would have made a huge difference in what we would have gotten, and also turned 2 months and some change into two years. That’s my point that there’s no exact number.
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Having enough is a spectrum: the more there are, the bolder the legislation and the more likely it is to pass. So however many you get, you always fall short of doing even better with more.
Single payer healthcare had been discussed in the early stages — and it was clear they wouldn’t have 60 votes for it, so it was a non-starter. Because there were exactly 60 D/Is, there was no wiggle room. And the GOP held up the 60th Senator in the courts as long as they could because they had no wiggle room. And then Ted Kennedy had to vote for the ACA on his virtual deathbed, and after that their 60 votes were gone, so they couldn’t spend more time on healthcare or move on to other tough issues. Lieberman forced them to remove the public option from the bill.
But you are just overlooking that they did pass a major, consequential healthcare reform bill that solved some very important problems, which couldn’t be accomplished for decades before then, even though people tried.
And this all touches on my original point: a couple more Senators would have changed things significantly at that time, but a more progressive president would not have.
Yes, this is tradition.
Right? This poll is literally the same as asking young voters if they would rather have their entire heads cut off or just their eyes and ears gouged out.
What on earth are you talking about? Joe Biden tried to give 20k to each of them who went to college. And he would have if the–let me check my notes here: oh, right–Nazis in the other party hadn’t sued to prevent him from giving away money.
I appreciate that Biden might not be some folks’ first choice, but if you think young people believe another four years of Grampa Joe is just barely more tolerable than the deliberate annihilation of the Republic by fascist traitors, you might need to meet one.
It doesn’t really matter in the long run, America is run by oil companies, not the people. Joe signed off on more land for drilling than trump did.
I believe those were agreements signed by Trump that Biden had to follow through on, no?
But let’s also be clear, Biden appointed the first Native Secretary of the Interior and signed the Inflation Reduction Act (the most significant climate legislation the US has ever had). Trump appointed Scott Pruitt to lead the EPA.
One will kill us slightly faster than the other. Great.
Brother he’s basically a war criminal the deliberate annihilation of the Republic by fascist dictators is already happening
Unlike that peace-lover Trump who only cares about the welfare of the Palestinian people, right?
You misspelled Russia.
My criticism of Biden is totally my endorsement of trump for sure
Do you have the name of a third person who has a chance of being elected in 2024?
? So I should just love Biden? I don’t understand what you mean. I never said anything about voting did I?
Also I came back to say this. How do you not see Biden and Trump being our only feasible options as inherently undemocratic? People only like them in comparison to the other. We should not be forced to choose between two objective evils. Are you so resigned to stagnation that you think continuing to enforce a system that exploits is the best option?
Centrists falsely interpret all criticism of Biden as support for Trump. It’s dishonest.
And realists know that bashing Biden with no nuance, as these comments are doing, does nothing but benefit Republicans.
Centrists just want everyone to their left and only their left to shut up.
Then what you’re telling us is there is no opportunity for improvement… Clinton was 30 years ago and Biden is to the right of Clinton. Three decades of “incremental progress” has gotten us nowhere.
interpret all criticism of Biden as support for Trump
When you don’t vote, therefore allowing Trump to win the election…then yeah.
Equating the above with “all criticism” is what’s dishonest. Plenty of people criticize Biden who voted for him once, and they are still voting for him again. But you know that. We might not like him but believe it or not, we dislike fascism even more. Crazy, I know.
He seems to be doing a pretty good job given his poor circumstances where the Republican house and supreme court are both totally useless.
He didn’t have those issues in his first two years. His own party blocked his agenda.
Wel the first two years we had the fuckheads Sinema and Manchin who are basically republicans at this point
Sinema didn’t kill the minimum wage increase by herself. She was one of 8 democrats to vote against workers.
Manchin is the perfect centrist Democrat.
Maybe pay attention to what’s actually happening rather than just repeating what other people say about him.
Biden is continuing to seek (and find) pathways to forgiving student loan debt, despite the Supreme Court ruling against his program. Millions of people have had their loans forgiven since that decision, and it seems more are getting it every day.
Anyone who thinks he’s senile or incoherent should listen to the interview he did on Conan O’Brien’s podcast that was released the other day. I was surprised that it went so well, and Biden was far more lucid than I’ve ever seen Trump.
I don’t think he’s senile, I just think he’s out of touch. It’s hard to be in touch as an 80-some year old man.
This…just absolutely this. I was going to post something along the lines of it being a choice between eating shit or being flayed alive, but this is just better. Kudos.
Wow you guys are so original 🙄
We totally are. thanks.
Sure, Biden kinda sucks, but THE ALTERNATIVE IS ACTUAL FASCISM.
I’ve been saying this for years. It’s kind of not really a choice, as much as it sucks. Let’s just hope enough people actually turn out to vote
Biden kinda sucks
Lol no he doesnt
Yeah people catastrophise so badly when it comes to politics. Biden is bland, uninspired and gaff-prone - however, he is a safe pair of hands. Just because a politician does not make you excited does not mean they suck.
He said he’d veto a bill for universal healthcare. That sucks. It just sucks less than trump saying he wants to be a fucking dictator
Weaponized apathy
I actually care very much about having a boring president, thanks.
“Kinda sucks” is not catastrophising.
No, Biden sucks and if you think he doesn’t you honestly need to turn off the crap cable news you are getting your news from.
Exhibit A, Biden essentially has taken the same path with immigration that Trump did and it is tragic and brutal. He just lets conservatives completely define the narrative “ohhh the border is OUT of control” republicans thousands of miles from the border say… and then implemented the same brutal policies. Now centrist liberals all of a sudden don’t seem to care so much about the brutality of what is happening to immigrants and their families just trying to improve their lives, but that is neoliberals for you. They care when the narrative says they should!
Also, there is the whole thing about Biden being the most powerful enabler of the horrific genocide in Palestine in the world and he seems to be totally fine with it beyond say some curt words for the murderers dropping the bombs.
Is Trump or any republican candidate worse? Absolutely, but Biden is not a great President. He is terribly suited to this moment in US politics and we can only hope everyone hates Trump enough to get Biden elected.
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You know that every POTUS since 1948, including Trump, has been a vocal supporter of Israel right?
The chips are on the table now to actually affect the path of Israel in its genocide of Palestinians though and Biden is out to lunch on it just smiling and patting the backs the IDF while occasionally saying “well, I don’t know if you should do thattt, we would be upset with you” with a rushed whisper following “but you still get all the bombs you want don’t worry!”
Biden doesn’t get a pass because this has been the politically easy default stance for presidents to have, his job is to be president and make choices and he has made some truly awful ones here that have directly allowed the mass murder of children.
He’s a neolib and part of the ruling class. He does kinda suck.
Nah neolibs are dope as fuck.
Also there is no ruling class.
I mean … he does. He’s not as bad as he’s made out to be on most domestic issues, keeping in mind the limited power of the presidency and the fact congress holds the majority of the power. But he’s too fucking old. He’s made mistakes, and handling Israel with kid gloves is a problem.
I’m still voting for him because:
- The alternative is a fascist takeover of the government
- It gives us 4 years to push for change, elect leftists, and organize in an environment where were fascists don’t hold overwhelming power.
- In 4 years he’ll fucking leave office on his own accord. Donald Trump (or his stand-in) absolutely won’t.
But he’s too fucking old. He’s made mistakes, and handling Israel with kid gloves is a problem.
I believe we disagree on a few of his policy choices, and what we find good or bad. Democrats are a pretty big tent
I agree with your other points, at least conceptually. They’re good reasons.
The alternative would have been a strong primary challenger, in a just world.
Im actually quite worried that Trump will be removed from all ballots by the supreme court and Biden will lose to Hailey.
I don’t think he will get removed from the ballots, at least not in current state. I feel like the argument is going to be the presumption of innocence until proven guilty; an indictment is unfortunately premature. We need to apply the law equally or we’ll get Republicans finding every way to do the same… albeit with no arguments for it.
I’d rather have Biden lose to Nikki Haley instead of Trump. Yes, I know she’s a legacy Tea Party candidate, I don’t want her, but at least she isn’t campaigning on ethnic cleansing and actually criticized R bullshit like TC&J.
She literally wants to wage war with Mexico and abolish the Department of Education, as per the first primary debate. She’s also a dangerous loon.
Ideally we would have a Democratic candidate that could wipe the floor with both of them regardless of who the GOP nominee is.
like biden’s presidency
him and his vice got in office and immediately went back on campaign promises for cannabis, police reform, women’s rights, voter rights everything went to the shitter just like trump
now here we are AGAIN
and people screaming just vote HOW? not everyone has that right thanks to politicians like biden
cop city is happening under biden’s watch too
no difference with either demopublican
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/biden-promise-tracker/?ruling=true
Seems like he’s only went back on one campaign promise so far. He’s compromised on a few, he’s working on a third, got stalled on a third and has kept roughly a third.
Brother there’s a mile wide difference between “couldn’t keep campaign promises” and “literally running on a platform of ‘i will be a dictator for the first day’”
As a minority who will experience an enormous difference if Republicans win, this outlook is viscerally revolting.
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You guys aren’t going to convince anyone to vote with the lesser of evils spiel. Shit’s gonna get bad and all you had to do was pick a real candidate.
You guys aren’t going to convince anyone to vote with the lesser of evils spiel
What do you think happened in 2020?
People felt the absurdity. It’s been four years. The wound isn’t festering anymore.
Biden made a bunch of promises and acted like progressives and leftists actually had a seat at the table. The BBB, student loan, weed legalization, rail strike and gaza genocide have made it clear: We do not.
We gave him a chance and he gave us the finger.
You do realize that Biden can’t just declare things into law, right?
For the first two years, Biden had a Democratic House that could theoretically pass anything he wanted, but a Senate which was split nearly 50-50. If they didn’t get every vote, they could fail to pass a bill. And this doesn’t even get into the filibuster which would tank bills unless 60 votes were reached or the fact that Manchin and Sinema frequently acted to sink Democratic bills despite technically being Democrats. Biden could put some pressure on them, but his options were limited. It’s not like he could hold a gun to their heads and force them to vote on favor of bills
Since January, Biden has had a Democratic Senate with a razor thin margin and a Republican House. This threw even more wrenches in the works.
And then there’s the Supreme Court. Thanks to Mitch McConnell, Trump, and the Republicans, the Supreme Court has a huge conservative majority. So Biden can try to take action for things like forgiving student loans, but then Republicans sue, the case ends up in the Supreme Court and the conservative justices rule that Biden isn’t allowed to do this by law. (He’s managed to find a way to forgive some loans even if it wasn’t as much as he wanted to do.)
Putting all the blame on Biden and saying “he didn’t fulfill all his promises” is disingenuous. He hasn’t exactly had the Congress and Supreme Court that could support what he wanted to do. Could he have done everything anyway and proclaimed that he makes the laws now? Perhaps, but then he’d be a fascist dictator and not working within our political system - exactly the type of thing that Trump wants to do and is properly criticized for.
It’s funny, the student loan thing was literally decided by the supreme Court reiterating that executive branch rulemaking can’t be done capriciously, and people are still pushing this patently false idea that Biden can legalize pot with the stroke of his pen.
Right. And Biden still managed to get some student loan forgiveness through.
I get people being upset when politicians don’t fulfill all their promises, but campaign promises tend to be aspirational statements. Once the politician gets into office, they run into the cold hard reality of how the government works.
This happens with every politician. It would be interesting to see all the promises that politicians from Reagan on made to see how well they kept them. I know there are some sites that track this, but I’m not sure they go that far back. It would be interesting to see if Biden is on par, ahead, or behind the average Presidential promises fulfilled.
I’ll give him credit for fighting for student loans (though he chose a stupid strategy and doesn’t seem to understand basic aspects of negotiation?), I give him zero credit for fighting for a minimum raise increase because of “the parliamentarian”….??
These two things are not the same and are regulated by different laws. By your logic we could conclude that Biden couldn’t do anything.
It’s also important to note that Biden used the weakest legal reasoning available to him when canceling student load debt. Debtor advocates were very critical of him at the time for doing that because it increased the likelihood it would be shot down in court.
Buddy, you seem to misunderstand something here. I’m not trying to convince you of anything. If you want to believe Biden deserves your vote go nuts. It makes no difference to me.
But I’m telling you as someone who voted for him in the 2020 general: Fuck Joe Biden. Do whatever you want with that information. But trust no amount of these excuses will change my mind. I was already angry I had to give him a chance in 2020 after people voted for him in the primaries specifically to fuck over progressive and leftist efforts. I held up my end of the bargain. Biden and the people who elected him in the primaries did not.
Fuck Joe Biden for screwing up the BBB. Fuck Joe Biden for negotiating down from $50k student loan forgiveness. Fuck Joe Biden for waiting until after the midterms to fuck over the rail workers. Fuck Joe Biden for blocking the strike. Fuck Joe Biden for supporting Israel against our wishes.
For someone who needs the votes of people like me to win the 2024 general election he sure ain’t fucking acting like it. He can go fuck himself along with everyone who voted for him in the primaries.
Ok, so I get that you are privileged enough that you can probably ride out Trumpist fascism without much real damage, at least for a while. Just understand that there are many vulnerable people who will be seriously harmed by your decision to do anything besides voting for Biden. This isn’t dooming or trying to scare you into a vote, it’s a simple statement of fact.
If you are fine with that moral liability, then carry on.
Funny, that’s precisely how I view the people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries. Where’s your ire for them?
So who you voting for then?
Definitely not trump or Biden. If a decent 3rd party candidate shows I’ll go that route otherwise I’ll just write in.
You’re angry because you’re ignorant, and because of that, you’re threatening to not vote for the best option in the general election out of spite. Not voting or voting for anyone but Biden is an effective vote for his opponent, which at this time appears to be Trump. So you honestly think that there is anyone else currently running that you think would better represent your interests than the guy that had actually tried to do just that without the needed support?
You can hate the guy all you want, but check in on the reasons you listed and gain a better understanding of the situation around them so you can see how far off you are.
How about in just a high level way, explain how someone could have realistically handled those situations in a better way that would have benefits the country better. Student Loans, Rail Strike, and Israel, how would you have pleased everyone?
You’re angry because you’re ignorant
Call it whatever you want. But Biden is depending on a lot of votes from people like me to win the 2024 election. Would you rather deal with us or MAGA?
Well buddy, you’re in a two party system. You going to just give a literial fascist a chance because Biden wasn’t able to wrangle the crazies on the other side to agree all the time?
that’s cutting of your nose to spite your face in the worst way.
Nope. I’m just not going to prop up a candidate in the general election who was voted on in the primaries specifically to fuck over progressives and leftists. The people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries can go fuck themselves.
Yes but the part of this you keep dodging is that any Republican is worse. They have all the negatives of Biden plus a bunch of additional terrible stuff. You may not like the system, none of us here fucking do, but it’s either Biden or someone worse. When gay marriage and divorce are illegal, and bibles are the only book allowed in school, try to remind yourself how Biden would have been just as bad. Both sides are not the same, they’re both bad sure, but one is so much worse than the other, it’s ludicrous that people can’t wrap their minds around this.
Then the people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries should have made a better decision. They can go fuck themselves.
Joined 21 hours ago.
Seems legit.
student loan
Because all student loans forgiven have been forgiven via executive order, Biden is literally the only person who didn’t give you the finger over it
Didn’t the courts strike down his student loan forgiveness plan? If you support the plan, blame the courts, not Biden.
Biden used the weakest legal argument available to him increasing the likelihood it would get struck down. Debtor advocates were not pleased with his decision and that was before the lawsuit. He does bear some responsibility for its failure in court.
We gave him a chance and he gave us the finger.
You really think anyone voting for Biden in 2020 had high hopes he’d be a really progressive candidate? People didn’t want him then and we don’t want him now, but as long as we’re dealing with actual nazis on the other side I don’t see how the choice has fundamentally changed in 4 years.
I don’t think anyone who supported say Bernie or Warren thought that Biden was a progressive. However, there were attempts made by the Biden campaign to appeal to progressives. After Bernie lost, Biden and Bernie staffers actually collaborated to release a joint list of policy proposals. I think that gave a lot of progressives false hopes for what a Biden presidency could be.
You really think anyone voting for Biden in 2020 had high hopes he’d be a really progressive candidate?
Not high hopes no. But higher and considering the very thin margin he won by in the 2020 general that’s a pretty important point Biden apologists seem to want to sweep under the rug.
Maybe you don’t understand the stakes. Biden is the lesser of two evils, and no other candidate is anywhere near popular enough to take on Trump. Biden is the only ethical vote.
Sounds like democracy is already dead then.
Elect us and maybe we’ll do something about abortion.
Democrats are in an abusive relationship - it’s just better than the alternative.
There were plenty of better alternatives in the 2020 primaries than Biden. People voted him specifically to fuck over Progressives and Leftists. They’d rather lose to MAGA than leftists.
A lot of people voted for Biden in the primaries because they were being told he had the best chance of beating Trump. Plenty of those people actually favored the policy proposals of other candidates.
This is a messaging problem then. The message that other candidates had a good chance against Trump didn’t resonate as much as the message that Biden had a good chance. We need to figure out why that is if we hope to change that.
A lot of people voted for Biden in the primaries because they were being told he had the best chance of beating Trump.
Read into that message a bit more and what you get is: “We voted for Biden in the primaries in order to fuck over progressive and leftists efforts.” Now those same people are expecting our votes in the general? They can get fucked.
Yeah, it’s not at all the fault of you idiots who don’t understand the realities of a two party system
Literally support ZioNazis commit Genocide
The “alternative” is Fascism.
Biden is a Fascist Nazi already.
The alternative is a traitor who wants to be a dictator, who paice nazis… everything points for him to be a nazi, just tell.me, why that nazi traitor is a better alternative?
You can vote third party and not vote for genocode. Will you get thrown in jail for doing that like they do in China?
Both the main parties are literal Nazis now. This should be the perfect time to say “holy shit both parties are Nazis maybe it’s time for a new direction.”
With Trump’s rabid base guaranteed to turn out, a third party vote is a vote for Trump.
I agree it’s a time for a new direction. I don’t agree that either party is Nazis, that’s stupid hyperbole. And right now, with a second Trump term on the line, is not the time to push for a new direction. That would definitely be one of the worst things America could do to itself
Trump literally uses Nazi rhetoric. “Poisoning the blood of our country” is literally lifted right out of Mein Kampf.
You can vote 3rd party sure. You’re pissing your vote away and your voice won’t matter one iota, but sure, do that.
You and your both-sides people are going to burn out the meaning of the word Nazi with your hyperbole. It’s an insult to how depraved that historical moment actually was.
Lol, sure bud just remember, the republicans suddenly are angry at the president for giving aid to Israel, when they were the first ones who always pushed that aid before, but just because now is a Democrat they have an issue. That is hypocrisy.
Lol for starters the “bOtH sIdEs” argument is so stupid. On one hand you have a oarty that likes to appoint an autoritarian racist idiot, and the other is an old man that wants the starud quo… sire bud bOtH sIdEs.
Brutal take. Come back in 10 years after you’ve hit legal voting age.
How exactly? Give examples.
Biden has stood with the majority of the Democrats on almost every issue. If the Democrats overwhelmingly wanted to not fund Israel, he would probably stand by them. Unfortunately, most Democrats back Israel even more than Biden.
The saving grace is that Biden wants to avoid the war turning regional, making him not favor genocide done quickly. Israel can’t kick out Palestinians, as its neighbors will attack over the refugees. If Israel directly kills too many Palestinians, the neighbors will also attack. To not get dragged into a war, Biden wants the IDF to occupy Gaza and cause less collateral damage.
However, Netanyahu doesn’t want the war to deescalate, as the public will kick him and his party out once things settle down. He also doesn’t want the casualties and cost of occupying all of Gaza, as there would be more IDF fatalities. Reservists were already upset at Bibi, and if they took large enough casualties, even the military might not back him. His best option for maintaining power is to genocide Gaza and hope their neighbors don’t attack.
The US isn’t willing to withdraw support from Israel and actually motivate them to stand down. The Judeo-fascists are arrogant fools who think the US deterrent will keep them safe, but they’re playing with fire. If they directly piss off Hezbollah enough, or if they force refugees into Jordan and Egypt, or if they escalate with other Iranian backed forces, or if anyone makes a stupid blunder, everyone will pay in blood.
Biden isn’t doing anything to control israel. He has been a Zionazi for 50 years he said so himself a few days ago. He obeys Netanyahu’s will like a little dog wagging his tail. Genocide Joe is an israeli foreign agent.
The only reason israel hasn’t been invaded yet is Biden putting three aircraft carriers right next to them so they can continue their genocide with impunity. He removes all weapons restrictions on israeli war crimes while ignoring Ukraine like it doesn’t even exist anymore.
I’ve found that cartoon villaining those with shitty opinions leads people astray. You describe Biden like a bloodthirsty sociopath who gets pleasure from killing children and risking war. If you actually pay attention to liberals like him, you realize that a number of them are trying to do the right thing. Biden has a flawed view of what is right, but he’s probably not intentionally being a bad person. He probably thinks he’s as moral as he can be, sacrificing for “the greater good.”
Not every bad person lacks empathy or morals. Realizing how easy it is for you to unknowingly be the bad guy is hard. If you want an incorrect view that misses the nuance and complexity of real people, sure, remain ignorant. I can’t stop you.
JOE BIDEN BOMBS CHILDREN’S HOSPITALS FULL OF KIDS THAT ALREADY HAVE THEIR LEGS AMPUTATED FROM BEING BOMBED IN THEIR HOME!!
What the fuck is wrong with people thinking this shit is okay because it makes the military industrial complex some money holy shit.
Are you going to tell me Hitler had good intentions next??? “No we sided with the Nazi’s because that would further our strategic interests and less of our people would have to die!”
I’m not Biden as a cartoon villain. He is a cartoon villain.
I’d rather have 100.000 people die fighting the Nazis than 90.000 murdered by us joining the Nazis.
Having (what I think of as) a more accurate view of why people do evil things does not mean I think those evil things are ok. The world can sometimes be fair, life can be great, and people can be kind to one another. However, the world is often unfair, life can be cruel, and people can be awful to each other. I don’t have to like it because reality doesn’t exist for anyone. We exist inside of it and are along for the ride.
I refuse to walk away from my best understandings of reality because they aren’t pleasing. I hold a nihilist, deterministic, Hobbesian view of the world. I think we have limited freedom over our own actions and thoughts, we made up all ideas and concepts, and we can never have total certainty about anything. I embrace truths that most people refuse to acknowledge because they find those truths depressing. (I’m not superior than those people, but I am usually more correct.)
However, I still have an optimistic outlook and positive worldview. I think we can overcome our flaws and create a far fairer world. There is no God who cares about us or will save us, but we can save ourselves and care deeply about each other. The fact that there is no objective right and wrong doesn’t mean our morality and ethics are useless. There is no higher meaning outside our constructions, so the meaning we create is the highest meaning there is. We can damn well respect and believe in what we make.
I fully believe that Biden does evil shit, but malice and enjoyment of suffering probably don’t drive him. I won’t delude myself into thinking every evil action is done by a fundamentally evil person. Some people are genuinely evil, but most are not. Many people simply believe in evil systems of morality. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do what is necessary to stop them. A misguided killer and a sadistic killer will both threaten your life, so you can kill them both to defend yourself.
Punishment and responsibility are not inherently meaningful. Punishment and accountability can keep people from causing future harm. Assigning responsibility can reinforce values. Brutal punishment can even scare people into submission. However, you can’t make someone feel bad for their actions if they don’t want to. Making them suffer can only help you feel better.
Justice shouldn’t be thought of as righting the past. We can only make things better in the future. We should hang up the classic idea of justice for one that can actually materialize. Otherwise, justice will never be achieved in any way.
So you’re voting for the Genocide guy again???
That’s how you are going to achieve justice?
You would unironically humanize Hitler if he was alive. Genocide Joe is a scum of the earth piece of shit. I don’t care how much you think he looks like a warm grandpa. Biden should burn in hell along with Mao and Stalin.
Young voters overwhelmingly prefer the guy who’s not actively trying to destroy the future, how shocking!
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Biden is literally trying to destroy the future. He has personally approved many new fossil fuel extraction sites including a pipeline that climate scientists have dubbed a climate time bomb
Trumps stated first step is to “drill drill drill” so please explain why this isn’t an effort to dissuade from the better option?
Did I mention trump anywhere in my comment? Your argument is a straw man. The OP said that Biden was not trying to destroy the world. I informed him that Biden is trying to destroy the world, simple as that.
Biden isn’t trying to destroy the world. Everything isn’t black and white no matter how much you want it to be. We’re back in the Paris Climate Accords despite how the man-baby in the previous administration pulled out because Obama.
I mean, if you want to argue that we are going to destroy the world no matter what, we could speedrun it by electing the fascist who wants to destabilize the entire world by pulling out of NATO. I however would prefer to live out the remainder of my natural life instead of nuclear Armageddon deciding for me.
Did I mention trump anywhere in my comment?
No one said you did.
Which is why republicans are trying so hard to push the idea of not being able to vote until you’re much older.
cause they want to cut off the youth vote, because they’d rather disenfranchise tens of millions and get rid of democracy than risk having to change their positions.
Well it’s hardly surprising.
It’s like preferring a slice of unbuttered slightly stale bread, to a literal dogshit on a stick, being waved around by others with shit all over their faces, knowing that if they eat enough, you’ll have to eat double.
I hear ya. So many would literally eat a shit sandwich if it meant a liberal had to smell their breath.
Eew that doesn’t sound hygienic.
I don’t particularly prefer Biden, but he’s much more preferable than these crazy nazi Republicans running against him
Every week it’s a different poll with a different result and a different headline. All I’m learning is that these polls are meaningless.
Not all polls are meaningless. But there are a ton of meaningless polls that get an inordinate amount of attention. And I believe the overall goal of that is to make people think they’re all meaningless.
There haven’t been many disasters and the news orgs need the clicks
Man, the level of statistics illiteracy here is out of control. I hope y’all are just literal children that are still in pre-algebra or something.
ITT: right wing Poe’s law trolls pretending to be leftists.
Wait, just yesterday young voters didn’t like Biden? I’m beginning to think that maybe the news is all made up 🤪
Liking Biden and voting for Biden can be two separate things.
This is very true
Still true, no one likes Biden. The alternative just happens to be an evil dictator.
I don’t think that is true. It’s like saying you don’t like a Honda Accord because Ferraris exist. Sure you want everything, but you’ll still appreciate the Accord over the Nike Express.
Its the difference of sitting in an ugly car VS sticking an industrial wood chipper up my ass and turning it on. Ill take the ugly car.
Sure. Biden at least does SOME good. He’s not a Bernie or the shakeup we wanted. But it’s far better than the Cheeto.
Sabata hates ugly cars! How dare you make fun my mom’s old Chevy Cavalier!
It’s a fallacy of polling. They only had two choices here. The correct interpretation is they prefer him over Trump, but do not like him.
If we had ranked ballot this would be my vote:
- John Stewart
- A tree stump
- Biden
I don’t like Biden much either, but a tree stump is just unkind. We needed Bernie Sanders, not another TV celebrity. (I do love me some John though)
Love John, but he won’t do it. He’s said in multiple interviews that his place is outside the establishment generating the public will to act, which he couldn’t do as a politician. I don’t blame him. He seems to be more effective at getting change done than most senators or even presidents.
If Biden were to drop out there’s a long list of people who really don’t have the clout to galvanize a winning coalition on such short notice. The list of people who do and could win is one person long:
- John Stewart
Stephen Colbert might be on that list too. And honestly, Harris would probably work for the same reasons as Biden.
Wait… Tree Stump is running?
I read an article earlier this week that actually explains this. They had a result that young people preferred Trump to Biden – but when they narrowed in on likely voters, it flipped to Biden. They noted that the individuals who preferred Trump tended to not vote in 2020.
Make of this what you will. I’m not entirely sure myself how to interpret this.
Which is funny, because I read almost the opposite. These people are just making everything up.
Pft of course haha
Polling companies need to figure out a new strategy. Their current methodology isn’t working. For a poll to be accurate it needs to be a simple random sample. It’s tricky to do, but clearly what we have now is insufficient.
Not made up. Just a large population.
I could write an article about how Biden is really a cat and find people on the street to provide quotes for it.
So you’re saying it’s not literally made up, but effectively made up?
Unless it’s literary, then it’s both?
There’s a difference between voting for him and liking him. He’s an awful person but the alternative is Trump, so there’s not even as choice there
Biden is not an awful person. He is a person who has spent a lifetime in politics and high office and has a long record to pick away at. People tend to forget that politics is the art of the possible. People who never compromise are radicals, like the Tea Party people, for example. It makes no sense to removed about the radicals on the right and then denigrate the centrist. If you have specific criticisms, fine that’s fair, but just summing Biden up as “an awful person” is both unwarranted and naive about the nature of politics.
You say that like he isn’t using Trump era restrictions on Asylum still and about to restrict the acceptable basis of “reasonable fear” to send more people back to countries where their lives are in danger.
Or supporting the genocide in Gaza.
Or getting rail workers killed because he short circuited their strike to save Christmas.
Or is blaming the current economic crisis on everything but monopolistic/cartel pricing models in necessities like housing and food. While claiming the economy is stronger than ever.
I could go on. This is all stuff from his presidency. He is an awful person.
People who don’t understand politics: I want my leader to always act uncompromisingly to solve all of the injustices I see.
The Tea Party and the Freedumb Caucus: Hold my beer…
People who don’t understand politics: NoT LiKe Thaaaat!
Accuses people of not understanding politics
Gets mad when people won’t vote for someone they hate.
Wait, you actually hate Biden? That even worse than “objectively awful person”. Such strong language, especially considering who the alternative is.
It’s possible to hate two people at once. Three actually. I hate Trump, Biden and Kissinger.
I didn’t say he was the worst choice. Just that he is objectively an awful person. He is willing to trade lives of refugees to get more money for Israel who is, right now, conducting summary executions of civilians.
This doesn’t stop if we don’t acknowledge the problems and pressure him.
Also, just for fun, I did choose things which he has the authority to unilaterally act on. He can initiate DOJ investigations into price collusion. He can tell Israel to pound sand. He can go back to Obama era Asylum policies. He could have told the rail companies he was willing to stand with the strikers until their very reasonable demands were met.
You don’t get it.
Biden is not a king, he is a politician in a deeply divided democratic country. You don’t agree with the current direction of certain parts of US government policy, which is determined by a huge breadth of considerations. That doesn’t make Biden an “objectively awful person”.
For comparison, Trump really is an awful person. Even most of his supporters don’t think he is a “good person”, they just don’t care about his antics because he appeals to their fears and baser instincts.
In many ways the American president is very much a king. If you want to argue that he didn’t have the political capital to do so then sure. But as I said above, these are all things within his power, he doesn’t need Congress for any of them. And what he’s doing with that power is morally repugnant. I would argue he’s losing political capital by the truckload every time we get a new report on Israel’s war crimes.
And while he can’t buy weapons for Ukraine without Congress (the goal the GOP is holding hostage to kill more Asylees and Gazans) he can authorize Ukraine as a buyer in their own right and get a deal with Ukraine to pay for the weapons later. (This was done in both world wars)
He’s pretending he’s stuck where he can’t do anything because people don’t understand the powers of the executive and it’s convenient for him.
There is very little I enjoy as much as the moment when someone like you realizes their ideas make them an unpopular minority.
Oh no, negative 2?!? Whatever will I do with my life!
Oh wait, I need to go make another post about how the entire 2A debate is being held in bad faith so both sides can profit off of dead children. That will pump those numbers. (You think this is a joke but it’s not. The Brady Campaign’s AWB doesn’t address gun violence, just gun LARPing)
I more meant the polls in the OP
That’s a contest poll. It only presents two options. Here’s how people actually feel about those options.
In an ideal world, maybe the votes would be weighed by the expected remaining life span of the voter.
Young people prefer Joe over the guy LITERALLY ADVERTISING TYRANNY AS A FEATURE? What a fucking surprise.
If that’s the case, hopefully they get out and vote.
“Prefer” doing a lot of work here
Now actually show up on election day.
We did in 2020. Or do you think Boomers won the 2020 general election all on their own?
That’s cool, as long as they actually follow through and vote when the time comes.
They won’t
Do you think Boomers elected Biden in the 2020 general all on their own?
