- cross-posted to:
- LGBT@kbin.social
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- LGBT@kbin.social
- world@lemmy.world
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This is why we keep the “critical” in “critical support”, comrades. What a hellworld we live in where this dumpster country is the second biggest threat to american hegemony.
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I thought about that too… Aren’t you strengthening rainbow imperialism by doing this sort of bullshit? You’re essentially giving out ammo like candy to western liberals who are now going to screech even louder - “muh LGBT rights in Ruzzia!”. At the same time, you’re missing out on the opportunity to say “look, the West is full of shit, they only pretend to care about gay rights, but we here don’t do these empty gestures”. Not to mention that innocent LGBT people will get hurt because of this by being a political pawn.
Comrade Lenin said it 100+ years ago about Jewish people - “they are not the enemy, the capitalists are”. A century passes - the game is still the same, they just found a new group to attack.
It’s because “LGBT is imperialism!!1!” is just an excuse. The real reason they are doing this is, simply enough, because Russia’s leadership is very conservative. Conservatives gonna conservative, they just need to present their target minority as a ploy from the enemy and voilà, persecution justified.
Yeah this is straight up reactionary shit. They say it’s not meant to persecute people with different sexual orientations, rather just target “the movement”, but wtf does that even mean? How do they even legally define what “the LGBT movement” is? Do they think that people are card-carrying members of some official LGBT organization? This is so vague that it allows basically any interpretation that they decide is politically expedient at any given time.
Depending on public opinion this could range from being virtually a nothing burger that will only be used to go after western sponsored political opposition groups (which would be foreign interference anyway, Russia already has laws for that), all the way to making life a nightmare for queer people and trying to completely erase them from public visibility. Basically what will happen is up to what the mood in the general Russian public is at any given time and how much pushback there is when the government oversteps, but unfortunately at the moment a lot of Russians have very reactionary views on this subject.
The sad part is that i’m not sure that the outcome would be any different even if the ruling party was a communist one, at least if it chose to tail the masses on this issue. It’s a difficult problem to solve because a vanguard party should not be tailing the masses but it also should not impose completely unpopular policies that the masses are not yet ready for. The correct thing to do is to prepare the people for more progressive policy with a thorough campaign of education and normalization.
They say it’s not meant to persecute people with different sexual orientations, rather just target “the movement”
This shit has me so baffled. “We don’t hate queer people we’re just gonna ban their most visible movement and make it illegal to teach sex education that isn’t heteronormative”
The sad part is that i’m not sure that the outcome would be any different even if the ruling party was a communist one, at least if it chose to tail the masses on this issue.
At the very least there wouldn’t have been the reactionary backslide due to the return of the power of the church (especially the reactionary sections that were previously exiled).
I was thinking more along the lines of if tomorrow the communists seized power and had to govern a country that has already undergone this reactionary backslide. Of course if the SU never fell the circumstances and the social attitudes would be entirely different today, but we can’t change the past, only the future.
True, but an alternate history is more realistic than another revolution now. Obviously there could be a revolutionary situation eventually, idk what the future looks like for them.
How do they even legally define what “the LGBT movement” is? Do they think that people are card-carrying members of some official LGBT organization?
Yeah it has big “the CEO of antifa” energy
Y’know I get this is supposed to be against “rainbow capitalism”, but with them also promoting the whole “traditional family values” bullshit it’s certainly not a good look.
Reactionaries worldwide all understand the value of a scapegoat. Russia’s bourgeoisie benefit from the populace blaming LGBTQ people for their problems just as much as the ones in the west do.
It is indeed why we say critical support.
Cheap political points at the expense of vulnerable minorities, perhaps to create a possibility of accusing them of the ills of capitalism later, once the contradictions start biting down the road.
It’s not even like we can depend on the KPRF to correct this mistake either.
Shame that misunderstandings about the human body leads to these things.
Yet another reason for me to be labeled extremist
Why do we keep catching strays 😭
I don’t understand the motive. I know the West weaponizes us for everything, is it because of that?
Everyone catches strays, like when the LGBT death squad plants their rainbow flag on gaza or the US posts about their LGBT attack helicopter crew. The system alienates and fragments everyone by tricking one group it hates it slightly less than another. If you aren’t principled, it’s easy to buy into it.
They’re essentially pitting us against each other and some are unable to see it, or at worst they do see it and play into it.
Yep, it’s sad and irritating.
for some people it might be that, for others it might just be reactionary conservative beliefs about gender.
It’s incredibly unfortunate and I can’t figure out which scenario is easier to remedy…
This reminds me of a tweet a comrade made about this issue:
Or this interview with a gay Israeli veteran recalling a time during the Lebanon war when his fellow soldiers murdered gay civilians at random. Didn’t seem to bother him much.
Major CW
Fuck, that’s extremely upsetting. Literally nauseating. That level of cruelty is genuinely unfathomable to me.
At first I was skeptical but it checks out, they’ve been misinterpreting people existing as Gay or Trans as some sorta Western delicacy or some reactionary nonsense for a lil while now. Extremely upsetting that THIS is one of the topics of criticism in Russia’s critical support.
They haven’t been “misinterpreting” anything. It’s a political weapon with which they can divert attention to a made up enemy to distract from their failings.
This the bread and butter tactic of capitalists and fascists. Blame immigrants, or the gays, or the Jews. Anyone but themselves.
Reminder to the USSR widows that Putin and modern Russia are not our friends.
No shit. It seems like not everyone heard about Yeltsin’s self coup in 1993.
Live “free speech activist” reaction:
Alright Z Posters, how do Ya`ll justify this?
Come on, you over there in Dongistan, tell me how Putin is “Based” And will help communism return to Russia?
Russian Nationalists infiltrating Marxist circles honestly is just annoying and I have zero tolerance on that.
I think I speak for most everyone when I say that this isn’t based, but marginally better than the Nazis that Ukraine brings into their ranks and radicalize other troops to accept Fascist-friendly brigades. Everyone here should criticize Russia in their many faults at the same time. That’s the beauty of the Dialectical Method, we can point out shortcomings and successes and address them as they are, not how we would like them to be.
Communism is the only ideology at the present which actually gets better over time, rather than just decaying into fascism. I see a lot of anticommunists point to their past failings or current flaws and there’s a reason they ignore things like plans for the future; because it would make them look like a nazi. They can almost frame themselves as the antifascists even while all their actions point towards a fascist future.
That’s a very good point. Libs say, ‘How can you be a communist, don’t you know how bad it was when people tried it?’
(Ignoring the fact that it has always been good, actually, on balance.) The answer is, ‘Unlike capitalists, we have no reason to do what failed before.’
Hence why China, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, DPRK have their own problems—but almost none of which are the same as those that happened in the USSR.
It’s only liberals who say, ‘This is capitalism, tough shit if you don’t like it, things will get better in however many years. And yes, we plan to do all the stuff that’s always been horrific, thank you. No, I don’t understand contradiction, why do you ask?’
As that’s built into the bourgeois outlook, they simply cannot comprehend how differently communists think.
I think next round we should take everyone’s toothbrush.
“Stealing the toothbrushes is merely Phase 1, Mr. Bond. Little do you know that I have already initiated Phase 2 of my diabolical plan! You fancy yourself a… sexually aroused fellow, wouldn’t you, old chap? Perhaps, dare I say… Horny? Well, my horny British friend, I implore you to see my demonstration. We shall send top officers of mine to follow people around with Horny-Bonk-bats! And everyone will be FORCED to be VolCel!!! Evil Laughter”
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if queer people in Russia take up arms to fight back, I’ll support them even if it opens a window for imperialists to balkanize the region. they have as much a right to self-deterimination and life as anyone else.
The Russian government can have reactionary positions when it comes to LGBT issues, and yet still be the main force in the world today killing nazis who would like nothing more than to wipe LGBT people off the face of the earth.
Come on, you over there in Dongistan, tell me how Putin is “Based” And will help communism return to Russia?
No one says that, merely that they should be supported as an opponent of the imperial core
Should we stop critically supporting Gaza because they have anti-LGBT views also?
Russia isn’t being bombed back into the Stone Age by a ravaging imperialist power. They don’t deserve sympathy or excuses for takes like this.
Have you forgotten that the Donbas has been getting bombed by actual western funded nazis since 2014?
Is that Russia? How does the suffering of the people of Donbas influence the people of Kazan or Volgograd, or the Russian leadership into taking bizarre, disgusting, and reactionary decisions like this?
Is that Russia?
As recently as 1991 yes; Its up for them to decide and the consenus in the area has been Russian unification for a while now.
How does the suffering of the people of Donbas influence the people of Kazan or Volgograd, or the Russian leadership into taking bizarre, disgusting, and reactionary decisions like this?
How is occupying a position in the western hegemony, the one who is funding the needless slaughter of east ukraine justification for the uncoupling of support from the people that our governments are killing?
I think that if you sincerely want things to get better for LGBT+ comrades in Russia, which I do; it comes with the war stopping.
“Things to get better”
This law was passed this past week.
How does the death and destruction in the Donbas justify this reactionary policy? How will the war ending rectify this? Why would they not just continue down this reactionary path?
The law passed this week, 10 years into a war with the west.
No ones justifying anything, its a material analysis of the dialectics at play.
War enables right wing reactionary policies to flourish due to unity becoming the priority in the face of a percieved existenstial threat, as such its a given that the fastest route to the war ending is favourable for conditions improving.
And lastly, do you seriously think a forever war will be the better path?
Some of them literally are, and if NATO wins they will most likely got thrown in even worse nightmare than in 90’s because right now natoids openly speaks about balkanisation, setting up warlords and genocide.
The Donbas is not Russian land, and that is entirely irrelevant to this situation.
I’m sure leaders in ivory towers discriminating against gay people in Moscow will help the people of Donbas best NATO! Wooo!
Donbas was Russian for centuries, and certainly wasn’t Ukrainian, until Lenin intervened and told them to shut up when they didn’t wanted to belong to Ukraine (rare but severe Lenin L), and even then only on paper since they tried to secede two or three times since.
And i don’t even understand your point. If you want to be so blunt and reductive, you could say the same about Gaza where LGBT situation is not all roses too. Are we only supposed to support people below certain threshold of military power or numerical disadvantage? Why Russia is so much worse than Iran, DPRK or all other socially conservative countries which we do support more or less critically?
I’m sure leaders in ivory towers discriminating against gay people in Moscow will help the people of Donbas best NATO! Wooo!
It is precisely what is currently happening.
Imagine going out of your way to justify reactionary homophobic policies. Did you forget the entire fucking point of critical support?
Also it’s good to know that Donbas was Russian for centuries. To bad Lenin’s terrible decision can’t be changed on a dime, because that’s not how international law works.
Again, how is the suffering of the people of Donbas at all related to this situation? What the hell are you talking about? How will this help them? You’ve brought up something so bizarre irrelevant to try and justify this that it’s comical.
Also it’s good to know that Donbas was Russian for centuries. To bad Lenin’s terrible decision can’t be changed on a dime, because that’s not how international law works.
Lenin wanted self-determination of Ukraine, respecting that Donbass is 90% Russian and them wanting to secede and being stopped by nazi-death azov miltias with western bombs was what started this whole mess. The Donbas war is directly linked to the repression of LGBT+ people, you misunderstand the propoganda and rhetoric going on involved with this war.
Why do you think Zelensky, the president of a country that untill very recently banned LGBT+ people from existance was dressing in drag while Ukraine was bombing the donbass? Why do you think they apparently legalized gay marriage, yet have nazi battalions beating up and bombing lgbt+ meetings still? They want to spur a reaction in Russia, because in turn it poisons the well for western support like it clearly has done for you and others in this thread.
None of the concessions Ukraine made to LGBT+ comrades has been sincere, and it has been at the knowing expense of LGBT+ comrades in both Ukraine and Russia, the only way to even begin to undo this damage is to advocate for a ceasefire and normalization of conditions in the area.
Im happy to back up any of the claims I made with sources, they are not hyperbole.
You aren’t even coherent now, i hope you’re drunk or stoned because not only you are very aggressive but don’t make any sense. I will block you for now.
Liberals looove that take. I seen one go as far as to deny evidence of the genocide because “Al Jazeera is funded by Qatar”
I agree that this is a negative devolopment, but my answer is ‘stop bombing them’
AFAIK the Dongistanis are banned here
sometimes they slip through the cracks and people like pepe escobar is mentioned here. i want to believe that people are unaware of that
Wtf is Dongistan? I can’t keep up with all these online splinter groups
It’s possible to both recognize how a state (Russia, Iran) can occupy an anti-imperialist position due to their circumstances and also recognize that they have seriously bigoted domestic politics.
Seeing how duginism is called out by name as not being allowed, it’s safe to say you aren’t going to see any redfash here who support this.
arm the moderate gays
Rare Russia L
Russia has lots of Ls, they just happen to play the vanguard role in breaking western hegemony over the world right now. I hope Russia can find its way back to the light one day though. And breaking western empire is a prerequisite for that.
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Honestly, not more. China do resist US economically and it would be important in the long run, but considering how imperialism works, resisting it militarily is a prerequisite of everything else, since if they would be not resisted, China would be soon surrounded and eventually would be squashed, just as USSR was.
Both are needed and tied to eachother, just the situation is weird that unlike the past those aren’t done by a single country but two.
China is kind of a soft-ally to the States, and are essentially teddy bears when it comes to geopolitics. Russia on the other hand is not even remotely worried about blatantly violating the hegemony.
The only thing missing is cracking down on where they can source their materials.
Common Russia L, we critically support because they also commonly have Ws.
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The alignment against Western imperialism is probably the only reason we still critically support them — they wouldn’t have any Ws without that
You don’t have to support them …geez , its like your verbal support something means to Russians and Ukrainians , 3rd world governments support Russia by trade and diplomacy . China , NK , Cuba , Venezuela , Latam , Burkina faso , India , Bangladesh all support Russia .
You’re right, it doesn’t really matter what an Internet stranger thinks. I’m just saying they’re no USSR anymore.
The whole world knows it except the Americans , why does it matter ? will you ask Palestinians to support LGBT movements after they regain their liberation. Why western commies have to poke their nose everywhere ? Its upto Russian people to decide whats good and bad for them including the cultural issues
except the Americans
Just use Hexbear’s International Community emotes… there’s plenty of other US vassal countries.
why does it matter ?
Why do you care if a random Internet stranger has an opinion? It’s fine if you don’t but you don’t have to force us not to have one.
will you ask Palestinians to support LGBT movements
Am I going to go to Palestine and demand they do that? No. I do understand there would be material reasons for anti-LGBT attitudes. Am I going to stop supporting “LGBT movements” myself? No. I think it’s regrettable that after centuries of those attitudes, the West tries to weaponize its slow support to divide other countries.
Why western commies have to poke their nose everywhere ? Its upto Russian people to decide whats good and bad for them including the cultural issues
That doesn’t mean we can’t criticize bad decisions? It was up to the people of Nazi Germany to decide how to deal with their Jewish population, the United States with its indigenous, and so on, but it would be wrong to say that was an acceptable decision.
I just don’t understand why western commies think just because they “critically” support it will have a definite meaning onto this world. It was the Russian people and leadership who took on NATO and Ukrainian nazis while western commies were sitting ducks. Regarding Ukraine war western commies showed utter failure. And why do they think they have a popular movement or anything because after Iraq War failure, US capitol honored Nazi battalions and Canada gave ovation to a real nazi. The only thing western commies definitely supported was the Palestinian movement, although after a full scale genocide. I don’t think few commies in the West and on lemmy will have a larger effect on anything. western commies cannot criticize everything in the world after sitting on the most tyrannical genocidal empire in history. Oh yes EU and UK combined.
western commies cannot criticize everything in the world after sitting on the most tyrannical genocidal empire on history.
☝️ 🔥👏
its like asking the Arab world , do you support LGBT rights ? only a handful of global south and eastern countries support full LGBT rights , perhaps those who are more prone to western media and culture they have awareness of their situation
https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-africa-religion-europe-05020d7baa9f0d5f0b3088e80d0797e9
I support the United States and its lackey’s getting their nasty tentacles out of the arab world. And yes, at the moment almost all the “LGBT rights” organizations are financed by imperialists for the purpose of soft warfare.
Igor Kochetkov, the head of the main organization in question “Russian LGBT Network” expressed that he was saddened Obama didn’t “pressure” Russia over human rights 🥴 Another article on their meeting
Regular people get caught in the crossfire while the US weaponizes everything it can in soft war.
Any violence inflicted on minority groups in countries under US siege is the fault of the United States and its collaborators 🤷♀️
al mawt li amrika
its the same understanding of Russians , I know some NGO’s want to do good job but they also do propaganda for western liberalism . That’s where all the problem starts. I am not a Russian btw.
al mawt li amrika - the death of america . mawt is also a hindi word taken from arabic I guess XD
