Led by Nick Brana proven abuser and borderline rapist, I guess it’s better than no one doing anything but don’t ignore the March 18 anti-war march being planned by ANSWER. Y’know, people who aren’t sexual predators, and they got hundreds of thousands marching against the Iraq war.
The question we should be asking is “what do we want?”
If we want to end NATO/US meddling all over the world, then we need as many people to demand that, no matter their backgrounds, problematic pasts or ideological leanings. Sectarianism always favours the status quo.
As Lenin outlined, us marxists should be the vanguard of revolution. Not be the sole participants in revolution. Because that’s the way to a) convince people to carry out the revolution and b) to educate people into becoming marxists.
Join movements, lead by example, win hearts and minds.
Not sexual predators that we know. Many aligned with ANSWER are ex-CIA, professional criminals above the law. I believe the average CIA agent isn’t a sexual assailant as much as I believe the US economy is in good condition right now.
They organized a lot of people and a lot of people expressed their opinions that they disagreed with the war…and then nothing else happened. No boycotts, no strikes, no riots, no pressure for governments to resign, no momentum used to grow the labor struggle which overall solves war, nothing but hand holding and cheering, the same thing that happened in 2016-2019. The point of a movement is to accomplish a counteraction so as to solve the problem which organized them to their cause, something liberals are vehemently against. They love wasting our time. If ANSWER leads this, no change will occur in terms of stopping NATO’s imperialist war on Russia. Just as it was with Trump, everyone will just feel like they’re doing something about it, but nothing will actually get done.
Speculation and general distrust and distaste for ANSWER aside, I too would appreciate a better party leading this movement, which is why we should work to make that happen.
https://www.blackagendareport.com/why-rage-against-war-machine-rally-antiwarsowhite
This is a really good article on this protest. Jackson Hinkle was a speaker there lol, the fucking patsoc guy.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/02/20/lfjm-f20.html This is a good overall analysis as well, although wsws is a Trotskyist website.
I respectfully disagree with Black Agenda Report on this. I believe it’s ultra left to refuse to create a broad cross political anti-war movement because it is in fact broad and cross political. Of course it’s going to be, that’s the point of it. And why aren’t we being purists and keeping the anti-war movement within the anti-imperial left? Because we do not have the numbers, and so to be effective and aid not only Russia but the working class abroad, it is necessary to work with the middle class in America on mutual interest projects such as opposing NATO imperialism against Russia.
This isn’t something new to the left either, Mao was famous for critically working with various factions of political lines whenever it benefited the Chinese proletariat.
This is simply pragmatism over dogmatism. It is not as if we are justifying or even giving them a pass for their politics, on the contrary we still fight them on their politics, but what benefit is there to us in rejecting their assistance in fighting NATO imperialism?
Previously his content has been on point but this particular article is heavy with aesthetic-based arguments, primarily that they are not us and do not share any politics with us aside from the one we are uniting on, which as I already explained is an oxymoron, of course they won’t, but this is an anti-war movement not a left movement which is still ongoing parallel to this.
It is also over-reliant on identity arguments and lacking in economic analysis which cheapens his overall argument.
The Trotskyists walked into a bar and said “here’s how not opposing imperialism is actually Marxism”, the bartender says “you huh? Back again?”
There were both anarchist flags as well as USSR flags flown at that rally 1 2
I employ you to not believe the narrative the bourgeois media are spinning attempting to deathblow an anti-war movement out of the gate by smearing it as fascist.
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Yep. People who want to treat socialism like an isolated clique are good for nothing. If you won’t organize with someone until they agree with your 24 point program then you aren’t organizing on a mass-line and will never build any momentum. The only red-brown alliance that has ever been is already in power: There’s plenty of people here more eager to do their bidding than organize a popular front. Ultra’s be damned.
Well, there is the path towards socialism which lies within the class struggle, then there is the anti-war movement which in this case lies within a popular front. The two exist parallel but separated, perhaps with a bridge to the peasantry. My critique isn’t that they are ultras and demand servitude to their 24 point program to organize a popular front, nor that we should or should not do this either, it is that they cannot be trusted, their record and character is shady, and they have been ultimately ineffective… If this is your critique of them, ok.
I also think it’s a mistake to necessarily assume people here are doing their bidding as opposed to trying to navigate today’s political atmosphere of doublespeak (ass-backwards) propaganda and opportunism.
I read their demands and they are surprisingly decent, did not even try to smuggle any libertarian shit under the “liberties” point. And even if not, this is an antiwar protest in the time and place where antiwar stance is crucial. Not best time and place for ideological purity.
love what you share in that articles( https://www.blackagendareport.com/why-rage-against-war-blob opera-rally-antiwarsowhite) 😄
Jackson Hinkle tied his cart to a popular bandwagon, so what?
Who gives a fuck what the trotskyites say? Seems like more of the same from them. Them saying it’s not a legitimate movement is all the more reason to believe it is.
Exactly. ANSWER is based af
CIA agents espousing Marxism are about as trustworthy as Trotskyists who follow the same behavioral pattern. Would you trust a cop to tell the truth? Then why trust an op to turn on the American bourgeoisie?
I do not mean to be confrontational (or another more accurate synonym, I’m commenting in good faith - I’m just tired and don’t wanna come out wrong) but how can we completely overlook the ideological insanity of RATWM protest leaders as pragmatism, while abandoning ANSWER, arguably the most successful modern antiwar movement in the U.S., because some of the leaders were involved in the Amerikan state department?
I do not see where the line is here between pragmatism and dogmatism. And where does Trotskyism come into play here, exactly? It feels as if you are invoking his name to smear ANSWER, but ANSWER is not a Trotskyist formation. (I know wsws is). Copjacketing BlackAgendaReport (btw this article was written by Jacqueline Luqman, not the man you seem to be speaking of) and ANSWER feels weird, especially in defense of Ron Paul-LaRouchite shit.
Anti-war is good. Empire is 100% the primary contradiction and if this movement were to spearhead its demise then that’d be grand. I just don’t think it will because the organizers are not anti-war. It’s literally Ron Paul and LaRouche lol. There were Soviet and anarchist flags flown at the HK riots, too.
No it’s fine, I think disagreement is good. I understand that advocating what could seem like a major shift is likely to provoke discord. I view this first rally not in terms of the organizers (which is why even though I accost ANSWER, I don’t have a problem that they have lead a similar event recently), but for the purpose of a headcount for all to see as to how many workers (and pette bourgeois) represent the pro-Russia stance in America as of this moment. This is why I left out the leadership of this first event, speaking generally of those who wish to lead an anti-war movement in the future past this first event. For this, I don’t see Ron Paul and these new libertarianites as contenders, and even if they are they are not for our class as their arguments and interests align with the pette bourgeois. This is why I am focused on ANSWER, as they are both positioning themselves to lead the entire movement, and they aim to represent our class’ interests.
I did not intend to copjacket BAR whatsoever, I just believe that that particular article was unbased, I did not intend to lump my analysis of ANSWER in with him whatsoever (nor any of his associates involved in writing articles), in this you misunderstand me.
Going back to ANSWER, I believe you are misunderstanding the degree of which ANSWER’s character is ex-CIA. It was founded by ex-CIA and regularly platforms these labor aristocratic gangsters for the bourgeois class. Through the documents of Operation Mockingbird, we know the CIA has infiltrated the mainstream media to a large degree, and by viewing this media we see how these state actors lie to our faces day in and day out convincingly as if it is a matter of their lives to convince us of the narrative they are ordered to craft and then propagate. The supposedly retired CIA agents of ANSWER have done nothing to earn our trust in not only their reformation of their ideals (why? What drove this sudden change of heart? They suddenly grew a conscience when this was absent their careers?) but also in their repayment of their victims. Basically a group of CIA agents come along and try to organize our class and because they admitted to us they are/were CIA we should trust them for some reason?
You mentioned they were the most successful anti-war group in these times, to that I ask successful in which terms? Successful for who’s cause? They did organize a large number of people, yes this is true, but as I have stated elsewhere what was accomplished in terms of their supposed objective? Was the war stopped? Was it even struggled with? If large protests are the summation of their actions then they failed at their cause. But then I have to ask, was their goal to stop the war or was their goal to stop us from stopping the war? Have they learned from this failure and corrected their actions since then? I know they have been active for a while now, surely if they were behaving in good faith as true radicals, they would adjust their tactics to better achieve their desired results, to meet their goals? But all we’ve seen is protests.
This is why I compare them to Trotskyists; they infiltrate, play the role, then opportunistically lead the class astray. They talk the talk but walk us into a wall. This is also why I question their class allegiance, the validity of their redemption, and indeed if they are even retired in the first place. I do not believe the CIA deserve any less than the most critical analysis when determining if they can or cannot be trusted, and certainly we should default to rejection given their explicit existence to oppose communism dating back to the 40s. They also worked with Trotsky and his propaganda largely shaped their counterinsurgency rhetoric which has since evolved into modern US propaganda.
Whether it’s ANSWER or another bad choice leading our class in this coalition (and indeed contending to actions the overall movement should take, competing against these libertarianites) nothing of substance will occur unless a Marxist party is able to earn the lead of our class in the coalition, not much will occur. I do believe if Russia is able to influence a section of the pette bourgeois organizers they could also lead the coalition into stopping this war in Ukraine…however due to the economy the next war will be with China of which they will be of little help against as the pette bourgeoisie do not relate to China the way they do to Russia. Russia is a competitor as they are, they see China as the same as the big bourgeois in NATO, and due to this they will very likely support a war against China. The US pette bourgeois are not anti-war, they are anti this war. This is why it is imperative that we work to lead the anti-war coalition, so we can not just oppose the war against Russia but also a war against China. It is also likely that if the pette bourgeois lead the coalition, once the China shift begins, the movement will crumble as it’s leadership dissolves.
I haven’t heard of ANSWER before. History is everything. Links to the CIA is a red-line. Maybe some people believe we should forgive and forget, but I’d call them the latest generations of fools.
Well, we all have learning to do. For some of us it is in “street smarts” as opposed to “book smarts”. There is studying conflict then there is experience within conflict. And the CIA are no simple foe either, they are the best the bourgeoisie has ever come up with. You are no fool for not knowing calculus.
Something seems off about people promoting RATMW but then shitting on ANSWER. Especially using bs saying members used to be in the military and shit. Seriously, cool with an event hosting Tulsi Gabbard who is an active member in a psy op unit but ANSWER is bad because is has ex military?
Also, if a coalition around being anti-war having veterans in it surprises you, I don’t think you have gone to a single anti-war protest. I know we hate the US military but people like average vets aren’t exactly happy when they see their friends blown to bits for some oil profits. If we don’t take advantage of that rightful anger, THAT is dogmatic and not pragmatic.
Just adding to your point, but the revolution needs disaffected people from our police and military. It was true in Lenin’s time and it’s true now. Obviously they should be treated with a lot more skepticism. However, plenty of people join these institutions as apolitical people and come out radically against them. And they leave with inside knowledge about how these institutions work. That’s valuable.
Most certainly. And the revolution needs a vanguard party, not a coalition of wealthy think-tankers, senators, fascists, and a couple of “patriotic socialists”. What does their leadership look like in organizing protests? What happens to this coalition as soon as the single-issue contradiction has been resolved? If this united front, left-love-right anti-imperialist coalition comes to be, it’s doomed for violent failure.
Speaking of Lenin, what precisely happened to the provisional government almost immediately after the monarchy was overthrown? In hindsight its dissolution allowed for the world’s first true socialist revolution, but in the meantime manifested a horrible, bloody conflict that should not have had to happen (with plenty of help from western imperialists). Because the provisional government was a coalition of fascists, social democrats and communists.
Ron Paul and his decrepit ilk are not anti-war. In fact, a major talking point of the right as of this moment is that diverting so many funds and weapons to Ukraine is weakening us for the coming war on China and we should use that money to double down on military spending.
I understand that a lot of comrades’ points are about this one issue being paramount, but the way Tucker Carlson is “anti-war” is in that he actually supports war, having once hosted a guy on his show who said we had to up the military budget so one day we can “sit on a throne of Chinese skulls.” Associating with these fools as supposed left anti-imperialists Dore and Max Blumenthal did has done nothing but seemingly drive them fucking batshit.
I think the proper move here would be to organize with better groups like ANSWER or your local party. Assuming that we have to ally ourselves with rightists is buying into the idea that their platforms are more popular than they are. We do not need to ally with fascists, they do not “speak for the people” and they are not worth convincing - they’re fucking astroturfers and their main support base comes from the petit bourgeoisie and bourgeoisie, be it in votes, money, or actively platforming their ideas. Most Amerikans are against war, not just the loud fascist minority. Most Amerikans don’t vote at all, and most Amerikans are poor.
Saw Roger Waters making a video about his stance on the war and he mentioned this March. Libs were coping hard in the comments lol.
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It’s a start
October Revolution did not come from nowhere
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Who’s doing more?
here they come :(
the floodgates have opened
I know the odds that these people are actual human being is low, but imagine seeing thousands of people gather to march against supporting a war and thinking they’re the bad guys.
So there they are, i looked for them in the video about UA soldiers riding horsecart and bicycle but there was only one there, and that one was so detached from reality that they wrote something that could be taken 100% as dunk on UA army if not for the NAFO pfp.
- select speeches: https://scheerpost.com/2023/02/20/rage-against-the-war-machine-speeches/
- video of what seems to be the entire event: https://consortiumnews.com/2023/02/19/watch-anti-war-rally-at-lincoln-memorial-live/
I watched a few hours of the Grayzone stream. I liked seeing people like Max Blumenthal, Chris Hedges, Anya Parampil, and even Jimmy Dore repping the cause from the left. I didn’t see any capitulation to bad libertarian ideology from those people. I also don’t see a problem organizing on a specific issue with people who aren’t comrades, especially when the issue is combating imperial militarism.
I’ve always had a lot of respect for the greyzone and love to hear them. People forget how lonely the field was even 5 years ago. Jimmy Dore is far from a socialist but he’s got it right 7 out of 10 times. He’s covering a lot things better than most, a majority of which isn’t covered at all; even if some of the topics are things nobody wants to hear anything about. He’s been at the front of important issues like the democratic split and a force the vote movement, where he stood alone. I’m happy to hear them speak, at the end of the day, like it or not, they’re going to be the front of any credible organized left.
Chris Hedges too. One of the best authors and war corespondents of our time. There isn’t a single book he’s published that I haven’t read. Not a single person on this site is more worthy to be at the front of an organized left than Chris Hedges. Anyone who would speak against anything he’s associated with isn’t worth the time of day.
Oh is that what that was? I thought it was about the band.
There was music
Comrades, we must support an actual anti-war movement, not a pseudo-communist “United front”, which many of the parties are accused of Pedophilia, racism and being Cults. [1]
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You should support general anti-war movements and quit with the holier than thou divisiveness. If you’re movement can’t stand on its own two feet without spiting another then it’s of low regard.
Seem quite defensive of the pedophile-fascist-cult-libertarian-socdem united front idea. Perhaps chill.
You have to be defensive in the face of undue aggression. You don’t like some of the people, so what? I’m not against two movements, except some people are saying its lead by a CIA front. If you have any more insults you want to hurl to chill the only viable anti-war movement we’ve seen in over a decade I’m all ears.
I do not ever want to be in a position to say “I told you so” as our fascist “anti-imperialist” comrades turn their guns to us. But I’m disengaging, all of this was hammered out during the patsoc purge yet people seem to adore the idea of tailing astroturfed reactionary movements.
This is about the Grayzone and Dore. You can’t go directly after them for this so you throw as much mud as you can.
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