• bluebodhisattva@lemmygrad.ml
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    2 years ago

    “Degrowth” and “Keynesianism” are the tip offs for the western chauvinism.

    I hate it when radlibs call developmentalist models in the global south “Keynesian,” either when they’re attempting to be sympathetic (Naomi Klein) or when they’re denying global south autonomy with psuedo-marxist language (as in this article).

    • loathsome dongeater@lemmygrad.ml
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      2 years ago

      Why do you say degrowth relates to western chauvinism? From my understanding it is meant to point out the disproportionate rate of consumption in western countries and call for reducing consumption to less extreme levels. Correct me if I am wrong.

      • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
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        2 years ago

        That is part of it.

        Not sure if this is what Bluebodhisattva meant, but one problem with degrowth arguments is their universality. This means the global south is expected to stay at current levels of development just because the global north ruined the environment by its development.

        It can also be tied to Green New Deal type movements, which may accept the premise that the north is going to have to do just a little bit more imperialism against the global south to get the resources to shift to renewables. For ‘everyone’s’ benefit.

        Degrowth seems to be an improvement, but it’s liable to be co-opted or promoted by people who imply that its okay for capitalism to continue or who are happy for themselves to achieve socialism while the rest of the world waits their turn. Not far from other democratic socialist positions. That’s what we have to watch out for.

        Edit: typo.

        • xxcvzvcxx@lemmygrad.ml
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          2 years ago

          exactly, it’s imperialism’s new excuse. “We’re civilizing them!”, “We’re teaching them democracy!” now “We’re saving the planet” and in the end they will not save the planet and kill a ton of people on top.

        • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
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          2 years ago

          I’ve been trying to think of a helpful answer all day. Yours is more helpful than anything I came up with.

          What would you say is the core aspect, common to Keynesianism whatever the context? Maybe ‘keeping the money flowing even if it means a policy of tax and spend’?

          I’ve recently had to read through some Hayek, a staunch critic of progressive taxes. Thatcher based her policies on Hayek, it’s said. In one respect, Hayek was the negation of Keynes. But most if not all the imperial core states will tax and spend to get out of crises and to funnel public money into private hands through ‘austerity’ periods.

          This suggests to me that Keynes, as others here have suggested, simply presented one way or saving capitalism from one type of crisis (one where the workers say, ‘Oi, mate, give us some welfare or we’ll do a Bolshevik’). In addition to the fact that Keynesian welfare states only work if said state is exploiting other states. So it can provide libraries and healthcare, but the users have got to close their ears and eyes to the suffering of the global south.

          • loathsome dongeater@lemmygrad.ml
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            2 years ago

            You are right. At the core Keynesianism is about spending to induce demand. This is the macroeconomic aspect but by context I meant there are specialised applications of the theory in areas like monetary and fiscal policies and employment.

      • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
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        2 years ago

        I guess “capitalist”. A lot of radlibs tend to be pretty much libertarian-leaning and they hate Keynes for his theory of saving capitalism with regulations.

        • Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml
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          2 years ago

          Ah, so the good ol’ “regulated capitalism will stave off the known issues inherent in the system”?

          • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
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            2 years ago

            Yeah. Fun fact: After WW1 Lenin just casually dismissed Keynes theory as nonsense since he didn’t thought it warrant much attention. Little he did suspected that liberal brainwashing will get so far that century later it would be considered dangerously radical idea XD