Xinjiang is incredible to visit, the Uyghur language is beautiful and the culture is robust and everywhere, I loved my trip there. My uncle who went there in the 90s went with me this time and said it felt like Uyghur culture was much more realized, much less ultra conservative fundamentalists everywhere, safer in general. People forget that Islamist (referring to Salafist/Wahhabi and other ultra-conservative Islamic political fundamentalist groups) groups destroy culture and tradition as an aspect of their ideology.
People forget that the Party doesn’t treat Uyghurs any different from the rest, they don’t treat them different because they’re Uyghurs, but because some of them are actively against the party principle that must be upheld. It is not a genocide, it is a fight against dogmatism and reactionary elements
They do treat minorities differently, but it’s preferential (e.g. I’ve heard that non-Han Chinese people may have higher priority for university admission)
By people you mean western liberals and their reactionary compradors in the global south.
Even the national bourgeosie here realizes the threat of political Islam on their own profits.
People forget that islamist groups destroy culture and tradition as an aspect of their ideology.
What? This is super Islamophobic unless I’m misunderstanding you somehow. There are groups which happen to practice Islam and destroy cultures, but it’s not a characteristic of the religion itself. The same could be said of Christianity, and I would still not like it; however, Christianity is so powerful in the world that I probably wouldn’t come to its defense.
I don’t like organized religion of any kind, but I’m not a fan of the Islamophobia that I’m interpreting from your comment.
Islamism is not the same as Islam, Islamism is political Islam. At its worst (e.g., some forms of Salafism), it’s fundamentalist, socially conservative, and aims to wipe out or replace all other cultural expressions under its rule. ISIS is an example of the worst of Islamism. People who mean Islam by itself tend to just refer to it as Islam, but adjectival forms include Islamic or Muslim as opposed to Islamist (which has the specific meaning laid out above).
Islamism is new to Uyghur culture and has made attempts at changing it. This is what the person you are replying to is highlighting.
Also, and this is mostly just an aside, but the reference to Christianity being so powerful ignores how Islam is the fastest growing and second largest religion in the world. Protecting Muslim minorities in the Western World and protecting Muslims and Muslim countries abroad from imperialism and hate are both admirable and necessary actions, but Islam is not helpless nor does it lack power. I mainly point this out because the last statement in your post strikes me as symptomatic of the same paternalism that is making liberals upset about the news of other Muslims finding China’s treatment of the Uyghurs to not be problematic. It’s not a huge deal, but it’s a thing of perspective I think is worth pointing out to make this a constructive conversation.
the last statement in your post strikes me as symptomatic of the same paternalism that is making liberals upset about the news of other Muslims finding China’s treatment of the Uyghurs to not be problematic.
I’m not sure how you’re getting paternalism from my comment. You must mean the last sentence of the first paragraph. I’ll quote it here for context:
The same could be said of Christianity, and I would still not like it; however, Christianity is so powerful in the world that I probably wouldn’t come to its defense.
This isn’t paternalism, in my opinion. I merely don’t think Christianity needs more people coming to its defense in English speaking circles, whereas Islam, in English speaking circles, is demonized by a lot of reactionaries, including those reactionaries on the left who are still going through their new-atheism phase.
If the OP was indeed referring to groups which are “political Islam” and seeking to push conservative and regressive changes rather than groups that are simply Islamic, it would indeed be a misunderstanding on my part. If you re-read my comment, I was careful to say that I was interpreting Islamophobia.
I think more careful language is warranted in the OP’s post, personally. I’m no expert on this distinction between “Political Islam” and “Islam” by using the term “Islamist”, but I’d guess neither are a lot of other leftists. I would be worried, though I do not know with any certainty, for our Islam-practicing comrades to come into this space and feel attacked by that post, not because they believe in the regressive ideas described, but because they might not understand the distinction that is attempting to be made.
To reiterate, though, I may just be more ignorant than most on this particular topic, in which case I think anyone could safely disregard my thoughts.
I’m sorry if my post seemed anti-Islam, I made the assumption people would understand the difference between Islamic and Islamist, I will add a note so people do not misunderstand.
The word ‘Islamist’ only has the meaning of political Islam and is incredibly commonly used, even in liberal media. The idea that ‘not a lot of other leftists’ would know it is… kinda baffling, given how much actually obscure terminology we bandy about casually.
BlackLotus’ posts do seem ignorant rather than malicious (giving the benefit of the doubt and presuming that it’s not a case of concern trolling)
+1
Mfw the brown people disobey my propaganda
‘I showed you my genocide, please respond’
I feel like we’ve had a similar exchange before
EDIT: apparently it was someone elseI’ve been looking for that image for a long time. I guess it’s OC then
This one?
“Look at this Google maps image”
“look at this blurry satellite photo I found, looks like there are at least five million Uyghurs in there being forcibly sterilized”
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LMAO
Sure Islamic envoys say that, but what does John Oliver say? I need to hear what some asshole from the bloodiest entity that has ever existed has to say in a funny accent.
Two of the bloodiest entities that have ever existed (He’s officially USonian now iirc). In a variety of accents and using non-sequitur absurdist humour as if it makes any point or is actually funny.
He sucks so much. This thing is like a squirrel baking a cake. Squirrels don’t bake cakes. Hashtag squirrel hashtag cake.
Are you ok John? You are not having a stroke are you?
If only he were, then he might be funny.
You have to love the logic of the white liberal, they hate Muslims, they hate the Chinese, but they care ever so much about the Chinese Muslims.
On point! 👈
this will convince 0 white people
I hate white people
Theyll claim to not be racist then immediately say that these envoys dont count because muslims in these countries are all paid off or brainwashed.
they actually do not think that they’re racist for thinking that, for some reason
Speaking as white people. I hate white people too.
Same tovarisch
That’s exactly what I thought instantly. Lmao.
Yeesh. I’m willing to listen lol.
I think there’s a lot of “white people” in America or the EU that don’t feel mainstream media should be consumed in whole or taken at face value. I’d say the same for anywhere is true.
I just wish I could see first hand what is happening in China sometimes and make my own bias. I know that if I see something on the news in the US I can usually guess if it’s exaggerated or not. For example racist cops right
There is a problem with all media in the West, though. We are constantly told that there is a ‘marketplace of ideas’ as if this is sufficient to counter the overbearing presence of a single viewpoint. It is not.
Alternative media, of the ‘left’ and right, still relies on the mainstream (curated) news cycle for it’s stories and rarely if ever escapes the paradigms set up by that mainstream news cycle. (This largely includes social media, whether classed as mainstream or alternative media.)
If one person does manage to avoid these stories from ‘news’ sources, they see the same stories, anyway, in entertainment media (movies, series, books, music, theatre, games, etc), or hear the same in everyday conversation. So it is not enough to be wary of mainstream (news) media.
In all these realms, Michael Parenti argues, the ‘anti-communist impulse’ kicks in. A negative spin is put on every event. If there are churches or mosques, the citizens must be forced to attend and be religious. If there are no churches or mosques, it’s evidence of religious oppression. This impulse is wired in over a lifetime of living in the West, and regularly topped up even (especially, maybe) by voices that are sold as ‘critical’ or ‘alternative’.
What seems to be required is a critical framework that allows people to challenge the very premises of any given story or idea. Unfortunately most people are uninterested in developing this framework or do not know that they need to.
If you are willing to listen, you may want to watch some Michael Parenti lectures on YouTube. In particular, search for ‘inventing reality’, ‘wagon trains’, ‘swarthy hordes’, or ‘media’ with his name.
If you’ve heard of Chomsky and Herman’s idea of manufacturing consent, some of Parenti will be familiar. Parenti wrote about a similar idea but in a much more rigorous and entertaining way at least a year before Manufacturing Consent was published. Chomsky and Herman did not cite Parenti and have never since acknowledged his work (to my knowledge). The fact that most people have heard of manufacturing consent but not inventing reality is just another example of the problem with news production and distribution.
You can see, there’s literally hundreds of videos from visitors to the region on youtube. The problem is that nobody seeks them out, and the other problem is the rampant mindset of anglos that it’s all some big pretend show because everyone’s secretly super scared of being disappeared by the CPC that solely exists inside the incredibly propagandised anglo mind.
If you want to see first hand proper then pay to go see. Nothing is stopping you other than the cost of going there. It’s not a magically sealed of place that nobody can visit.
I’m reasonable sure that they don’t actually hate all white people. It’s a generalization because the vast majority of colonizers have historically been light-skinned, and that still applies today
I hate white people who have the white ideology
and just a general distaste for white people
as a White™ and also a wanted criminal, I can confirm that we don’t taste good
wanted criminal,
don’t taste good
No relation whatsoever
for legal reasons, they are unrelated
obviously
I do not care about the single whitey being okay.
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please bestow upon my unworthy self the definition of “umpas”
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brilliant
Short for Oompah Loompa obvi, didn’t you know the chinese were genociding them too?
that was exactly my first thought
Fun fact, Oompa loompas were black people that willie wonka enslaved in the first edition of the book
that wasn’t a fun fact how could you trick me like this
Yep! It was just racism!
Holy shit really? Is that book worth reading btw?
Yep, they were “Black Pygmies from the forests of africa” that he enslaved. Do not read it.
😂
yall are literally doing this meme in this thread but for Saudi Arabia
yall believe diplomats from fucking Saudi Arabia, a government run by brutal fascists who give no fucks about human rights and keep women as property just cuz they’re saying there is no war in ba sing se and yall desperately want to believe its true?
the amount of hopium in here makes me believe yall would get along so great with MAGA chuds aslong as none of you mention china. you pride yourself so much on “owning the libs” you will wear blinders so big youll ignore your core beliefs as long as it makes your “enemies” feel bad.
but but i saw so many youtube videos of happy white people visiting xinjiang and its so beautiful there is no way there is genocide happening there or that nike is using slave labor to make their products. yall are once again simping for billionaires just because they wave your preferred flag.
the amount of hopium in here makes me believe yall would get along so great with MAGA chuds aslong as none of you mention china
Okay, both our faction and the MAGA one would kill you for saying this. Do you know what the cold war was, or you somehow more ignorant than I thought you could be.
