Ah yeah, 90% support for the government policy in a county where all the opposition is banned and the secret service disappears people who have wrong opinions.
It wouldn’t be out of line if we assume the Donbass region was not included. After all, the average Ukrainian has had their life turned upside down by the Russian invasion and occupation. Like with Sweden and Finland, it would be natural to be attracted to inclusion in a treaty organization that would provide protection going forward.
Regarding the opposition, even the supposedly “pro-Russian” parties had turned pretty anti-Russia once the invasion started. I’m still mystified why there isn’t more pressure from the nations backing the Ukrainian government to return to the principals of a liberal democracy. This is no time to resort to authoritarianism.
Literally about everything. Your claim that Ukrainians outside of Donbass are uniformly pro regime is not based in reality. This is likely true for parts of western Ukraine, but certainly not true for Ukraine as a whole. Especially places like Odessa or Kharkov.
Sweden and Finland are not gaining any actual protection going forward. In fact, they’ve put themselves in a much more dangerous position by renouncing neutrality. As many experts have repeatedly explained, the reason Ukraine is in the situation that it’s in is precisely because of its ambitions to integrate into NATO.
I strongly encourage you to read this report from the Royal United Services Institute in UK that clearly explains why NATO cannot offer any real protection to countries.
The reason there isn’t any pressure from the governments backing Ukraine to return to “freedom and democracy” is because those governments do not give a shit about these things. The west has consistently propped up some of the most heinous regimes known to man.
The basic facts are entirely contrary to the statements you make.
Your claim that Ukrainians outside of Donbass are uniformly pro regime is not based in reality.
I claimed that it’s probable that the average Ukrainian, whose life has been put into turmoil by Russia’s invasion, may not have many warm fuzzy feelings towards the government attacking their country and may be in favor joining NATO to prevent future attacks.
Especially places like Odessa or Kharkov.
Those cities have been bombed extensively by Russia as part of the invasion. Even if there was once much interest in those cities to chart a more pro-Russia course, I doubt there is much anymore. Just because a city has primarily Russian speakers doesn’t mean they will love Russia when Russia rains bombs on their homes.
I strongly encourage you to read this report from the Royal United Services Institute in UK that clearly explains why NATO cannot offer any real protection to countries.
It’s a good report, but it doesn’t say that. It just says that for a longer haul war, the US especially is going to need to change its strategy around ammunition
I claimed that it’s probable that the average Ukrainian, whose life has been put into turmoil by Russia’s invasion, may not have many warm fuzzy feelings towards the government attacking their country and may be in favor joining NATO to prevent future attacks.
You assume that out of ignorance.
Those cities have been bombed extensively by Russia as part of the invasion. Even if there was once much interest in those cities to chart a more pro-Russia course, I doubt there is much anymore. Just because a city has primarily Russian speakers doesn’t mean they will love Russia when Russia rains bombs on their homes.
It’s a good report, but it doesn’t say that. It just says that for a longer haul war, the US especially is going to need to change its strategy around ammunition
What it very plainly says is that the west lacks industrial capacity for the kind of war that Russia is currently waging. If you don’t understand that, then read the report again.
What it very plainly says is that the west lacks industrial capacity for the kind of war that Russia is currently waging.
The West currently lacks that specific industrial capacity. It could definitely shift production to counter Russia, especially as part of a longer war.
Then explain to me why Ukrainians would like being invaded and bombed relentlessly. Please, I’m all ears.
The people themselves explain it in the video I linked. Here’s the ethnic breakdown of Ukraine for you. People in the east consider themselves to be occupied
That guy is embedded with the the Russia army and goes on Infowars. He is simply an untrustworthy source, a propagandist.
The interview is just the people telling what they think. Imagine thinking that’s propaganda as opposed to whatever you’re guzzling.
The West currently lacks that specific industrial capacity. It could definitely shift production to counter Russia, especially as part of a longer war.
No it can’t, you can’t create an industrial base overnight and anybody who’s not an utter imbecile understands that.
Trying to homogenize a diverse country with millions of people that’s been in a civil war for the past 8 years is the only propaganda tactic here.
Again, literally no neutral country has been attacked. In fact, NATO has been the one attacking countries in the past 30 years, including Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, and Libya. You’re a shameless liar.
You tried to homogenize Ukraine, and you can bleat all you want here, but everybody with a couple of brain cells to bang together understands you’re full of shit.
Meanwhile, not joining an aggressive military alliance is literally what being neutral means. You’re so bad at doing propaganda.
Ah yeah, 90% support for the government policy in a county where all the opposition is banned and the secret service disappears people who have wrong opinions.
I thought your camp was all about secret police
Not much of a counterpoint is it?
Counterpoint to what?
To the fact that opinion polls in a country where nazis hold power and disappear people aren’t worth the paper they’re written on.
It wouldn’t be out of line if we assume the Donbass region was not included. After all, the average Ukrainian has had their life turned upside down by the Russian invasion and occupation. Like with Sweden and Finland, it would be natural to be attracted to inclusion in a treaty organization that would provide protection going forward.
Regarding the opposition, even the supposedly “pro-Russian” parties had turned pretty anti-Russia once the invasion started. I’m still mystified why there isn’t more pressure from the nations backing the Ukrainian government to return to the principals of a liberal democracy. This is no time to resort to authoritarianism.
You don’t know anything about Ukraine. Full stop.
What am I wrong about here? I’ve got a few basic facts that I’m using to make guesses that would explain how this outcome would be arrived at.
Literally about everything. Your claim that Ukrainians outside of Donbass are uniformly pro regime is not based in reality. This is likely true for parts of western Ukraine, but certainly not true for Ukraine as a whole. Especially places like Odessa or Kharkov.
Sweden and Finland are not gaining any actual protection going forward. In fact, they’ve put themselves in a much more dangerous position by renouncing neutrality. As many experts have repeatedly explained, the reason Ukraine is in the situation that it’s in is precisely because of its ambitions to integrate into NATO.
I strongly encourage you to read this report from the Royal United Services Institute in UK that clearly explains why NATO cannot offer any real protection to countries.
The reason there isn’t any pressure from the governments backing Ukraine to return to “freedom and democracy” is because those governments do not give a shit about these things. The west has consistently propped up some of the most heinous regimes known to man.
The basic facts are entirely contrary to the statements you make.
I claimed that it’s probable that the average Ukrainian, whose life has been put into turmoil by Russia’s invasion, may not have many warm fuzzy feelings towards the government attacking their country and may be in favor joining NATO to prevent future attacks.
Those cities have been bombed extensively by Russia as part of the invasion. Even if there was once much interest in those cities to chart a more pro-Russia course, I doubt there is much anymore. Just because a city has primarily Russian speakers doesn’t mean they will love Russia when Russia rains bombs on their homes.
It’s a good report, but it doesn’t say that. It just says that for a longer haul war, the US especially is going to need to change its strategy around ammunition
You assume that out of ignorance.
Here’s what people as they themselves put it.
What it very plainly says is that the west lacks industrial capacity for the kind of war that Russia is currently waging. If you don’t understand that, then read the report again.
Then explain to me why Ukrainians would like being invaded and bombed relentlessly. Please, I’m all ears.
That guy is embedded with the the Russia army and goes on Infowars. He is simply an untrustworthy source, a propagandist.
Edit: More from this video.
The West currently lacks that specific industrial capacity. It could definitely shift production to counter Russia, especially as part of a longer war.
The people themselves explain it in the video I linked. Here’s the ethnic breakdown of Ukraine for you. People in the east consider themselves to be occupied
The interview is just the people telling what they think. Imagine thinking that’s propaganda as opposed to whatever you’re guzzling.
No it can’t, you can’t create an industrial base overnight and anybody who’s not an utter imbecile understands that.
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Trying to homogenize a diverse country with millions of people that’s been in a civil war for the past 8 years is the only propaganda tactic here.
Again, literally no neutral country has been attacked. In fact, NATO has been the one attacking countries in the past 30 years, including Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, and Libya. You’re a shameless liar.
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You tried to homogenize Ukraine, and you can bleat all you want here, but everybody with a couple of brain cells to bang together understands you’re full of shit.
Meanwhile, not joining an aggressive military alliance is literally what being neutral means. You’re so bad at doing propaganda.
This is right after Ukraine banned the main opposition party and seized all their assets. Democracy!
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Looks like nobody is buying your bullshit here.
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Yeah that must be it.