This may sound a bit dumb, but eh.

So when that WhatsApp privacy policy change thing happened in early 2021, I tried switching from WhatsApp to Signal and Telegram. Telegram kinda stuck with me since i still get news from there, but Signal… not really because I didn’t care about privacy back then. Now, I want to make the switch from WhatsApp to Signal, and I have a few plans on how to do that. But, is it worth it, since most people in Türkiye use Whatsapp and even if I switch my family and friends over to Signal, they’ll still use WhatsApp since most people are on there.

So, yeah. Should i try, or is it not worth doing? Let me know, also, thanks in advance!

(Note: Most of my family and friends don’t really care about privacy.)

(Note 2: This was also posted in r/signal and r/privacy subreddits.)

  • mtchristo@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    You don’t need to, as facebook, messenger , whatsapp, imessage, and Telegram will be forced by the EU to interoperate with Signal and other messengers in about six months. (for now only text chat no voip in sight)

  • CrypticCoffee
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    1 year ago

    If the people you know and care about use it, you don’t need WA. Plus, it trains them in it. You cannot always change the world, but you can change your part of it.

    I got my family and partner on Signal. I don’t care if they use WA. I don’t have to. They seem confident with it now.

    • FarLine99@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Harsh, but effective. I chose a slightly softer strategy. I communicate with family/friends on Signal, and for work/with strangers on Telegram. WhatsApp is a thing of the past. Quit there and told everyone that I won’t answer there anymore. Trash.

      • Im28xwa@lemdro.id
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        1 year ago

        I second this, highly effective method that I strongly recommend, deleted WA and I’m now only on TG

        • FarLine99@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          WhatsApp is such garbage. No normal privacy, no convenience, no normal backups, no features. Just such a mmmeeehhhhh

          • Im28xwa@lemdro.id
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            1 year ago

            Indeed and they have been slowly copying TG, that’s good but it won’t make it a privacy-respecting IM app, also on the topic of backups unlike TG WA offers the option to E2E encrypt the backups but IMO they should enable it by default with no option to disable it, it won’t push users away and if TG were to make E2EE the default this would make the backup process less convenient not as “seamless” as TG want it to be, we would have to save the password of our backups or maybe we could use our fingerprint instead something like passkeys but this is a very minor inconvenience for us privacy advocates

  • Goldmaster
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    1 year ago

    I think it’s worth it.

    Just simply send a link along with that’s generally better and that lots of people are moving over. Watomatic could be looked into as a way to automatically remind people you are on signal when they go to Facebook you. It would then prompt then to install signal.

    I take the attitude if they want to contact me either, phone, email or text.

  • Tatar_Nobility
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    1 year ago

    I was in a similar spot and gave up before starting. This is due to several reasons: 1) My circle of relatives and friends, like yours, neglect their privacy and would not engage with me in a serious conversation regarding it; 2) educational institutions, businesses, organisations and even governmental bodies may rely on WhatsApp for communications; and 3) the two big telecom monopolies offer enticing mobile data deals for using WhatsApp.

    While I am not saying you should give up, you should go for modest goals (e.g. converting your close family to signal when chatting together) and eliminate optimistic expectations so you don’t get crushed.

      • Em Adespoton@lemmy.ca
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        1 year ago

        The few people I had using it won’t use it anymore since Signal dropped sms. Best I have been able to do now is talk to people with iMessage.

        Well that’s odd, as iOS Signal never supported SMS, and Android phones don’t support iMessage, only SMS.

  • GNU Dude@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    I see a lot of people in this thread talking about an EU regulation that will allow interoperability between messengers. I’m an EU citizen living here and this is, on one hand, amazing, because we can finally ditch proprietary apps and still keep in touch with people that still use them.

    On the other hand, I’m concerned about the privacy implications of this. Converting people to Signal is pretty difficult in most cases, however, once they download it and start using it, Facebook gets no messages and metadata from our chats. If this interoperability comes into play, most people will see no reason in downloading Signal, since they can chat with people on Signal anyway. This would mean, that Facebook would still get the chats.

    To me, this looks like a desperate way for Big Tech to keep profiting off user data even though better alternatives exist, while making it even more difficult to get people on these better platforms.

    What do you guys think about this?

    • Gush
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      1 year ago

      I think that this danger will exist but it will be easyier to convince people to switch to other privacy-friendly alternatives because they don’t have to ditch all of their friends still using the garbage shit

    • mtchristo@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      These are valid concerns. But I doubt Big Tech is joyfully opening up their userbase to third parties to harvet more metadata. they would rather keep their walled gardens intact, add to that smaller players are insignificant compared the billion users these companies already serve. question mark is what other shenanigans are they going to inact once this legislation in enforced.

      • Sucuk@kbin.socialOP
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        1 year ago

        “ah yes, sweet metadata of other people who don’t even use our products.”

        I knew they were very data-hungry, but NOT THAT MUCH.

          • Sucuk@kbin.socialOP
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            1 year ago

            Yeah, they are in alot of websites. Buat now, even if you block trackers on your browser aggresively and use apps without fb tracking etc. etc. your data will still be collected by fb with this thing.

            One alternative is going offline :D

    • QuazarOmega@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Conversely they could more easily be convinced to make the switch, since they could still communicate with their contacts without forcing them (and in turn the entire social graph) to change app too.
      If it’s implemented well I think it will be mostly beneficial and it could actually end up slowly transitioning a lot of people to privacy respecting apps whereas before it seemed so impossible, due to this chicken and egg problem

  • electric_nan
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    1 year ago

    I was a very early adopter of Signal. I was using it before it was called Signal, and the voice calls used a separate app. I had also been following Moxies’s work for some years prior on a Firefox extension. I got almost all my friends and family to use it, and I use it everyday.

    Now though, I’m looking for a good alternative and no longer evangelize it. I don’t believe conspiracy theories about Signal, but the persistent phone number requirement and the recent dropping of support for SMS in android has me looking towards a future with a different protocol.

    Unfortunately, I don’t think there exists yet the perfect alternative. The closest I’ve found for my needs is Matrix, but it isn’t smooth enough for me to pressure my contacts into using it.

      • electric_nan
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        1 year ago

        I have it. Seems like the best of the bunch so far. I don’t use it much since I haven’t got any friends on it. I like that it’s getting updated on fdroid all the time!

      • electric_nan
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        1 year ago

        Huh? I don’t get spam on xmpp or on matrix, neither of which require phone numbers. I’m pretty sure Signal’s main argument for phone numbers is to make it easier for people to find each other.

        • ExLisper@linux.community
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          1 year ago

          Great but just like with mastodon you have to find a public server that you trust and this will stop a lot of users from using yet. To stop spam you can do two things: make sing up more complicated or tie accounts to something that’s not free, like a phone number. One is better for privacy the other is better for discoverability. Matrix is good for technically aware people but for general public you need something simple, like Signal.

          • electric_nan
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            1 year ago

            I hear you. I still think Signal is a great project, and I use it daily. It has flaws, and the alternatives mentioned have flaws. As I said, I’m not recommending the alternatives (yet) for general public, but I am actively looking for something that is polished enough for non-technical people, but addresses my concerns with Signal. Like I said, I also haven’t seen spam being much of an issue on xmpp or matrix, despite pretty easy signups. As far as trusting a server, lots of people don’t trust the closed, centralized Signal server. At least with xmpp/matrix you have choices which include some cool organizations— or you could run it yourself.

  • sio
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    1 year ago

    I am using signal with my wife and 2-3 closed friends for 3 years now. The problem with signal is that you need a phone number. Now i am using SimpleXchat which is a decentralized messenger and i believe is the future of privacy chats. Its hard to convience people to switch their daily chat app, but if tou do it i would say go with SimpleXchat.

    • Sucuk@kbin.socialOP
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      1 year ago

      Tried it about a month ago, it felt barebones so I deleted it but it’s quickly updating, might check it again!

  • FarLine99@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    Your main concern I believe is to move your relatives/friends there. And for work, communication with strangers you can use your usual messengers. This way you don’t lose opportunities in your career, but you protect the most sensitive information. You can tell your relatives/friends that you will not talk to them on the phone in other messengers. It is also an effective tactic.

  • Sume@reddthat.com
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    1 year ago

    I got my mom to switch. Well, made her to. Sent her a link to install it and just said “It’s like Whatsapp, but no Facebook” along with “Keep Whatsapp for your old contacts”.

  • dan1101@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    If they don’t care about privacy you don’t have any argument for them to switch. I don’t think you can argue that Signal is better functionally than WhatsApp, it just has better privacy.

    • hypelightfly@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      They do still have an argument for them to switch. “if you want to message me here is how you can do it. I don’t use whatsapp”. No need to convince them, they can either switch or not send you messages.

    • Sucuk@kbin.socialOP
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      1 year ago

      Well, it’s more privacy-focused, feels like home, and it’s not hard to get used to and it’s not a data-hungry company like Meta or Google. Also Other platforms i tested didn’t really fit right with me.

      • anon5621
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        1 year ago

        Well,I am quite suspicious just about signal as company.And have some reasons for that.

        • jet@hackertalks.com
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          1 year ago

          Signal is not perfect, but it’s still the best option we have for mainstream consumption.

          The points you illustrate demonstrate that signal will not be the final form of private communication. They are poor stewards of federation, and open source, so somebody’s going to eat their lunch. Sooner rather than later.

          I want signal to be great, but they’re too focused on control so I don’t think they can let themselves be great

          • BorvorRav
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            1 year ago

            SimpleX, briar, session, Jami, Cwtch, … There are plenty of alternatives these days.

            • Sucuk@kbin.socialOP
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              1 year ago

              I do not have the knowledge, time or money to set up my own servers for those sadly. And it would probably take time for my family to adjust to those.

        • Sucuk@kbin.socialOP
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          1 year ago

          Hmm, good points.
          Most of these have some kind of (strong or weak) counter-arguments.
          I have mixed thoughts about the first point, they kinda have some good points though.2 and 4 got resolved, very critical issues nonetheless, shouldn’t have happened. The 3rd point seems kinda OK, I’m sure they would like the idea of making that open-source, but that would probably make it bypassable, correct me if im wrong. I didn’t know about the fifth! The reason they gave also seems defenseless.

          Concerning situations for all of the points.

          Not trying to hate or back up Signal here, just my opinions.

          • southsamurai@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            There’s no reason you can’t open source anti spam. The only reasons not to do so are that it’s either absurdly to bypass if it’s known, which makes it useless, or if they don’t want it visible.

            Why wouldn’t they want extra eyes on it? That’s how a lot of vulnerabilities get found, people actually checking the code and testing it.

            That suggests some other reason, and they haven’t said (that I’m aware of). Since that means that part can’t be trusted, you can’t trust the rest of it either. That isn’t to say you can’t choose to use it, but you’re using it blind, which makes it no more secure or private than telegram or any other options.

            • Sucuk@kbin.socialOP
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              1 year ago

              Hmm, yeah true. More people can take a look at the code, find vulnarabilities and fix it. Then it should be open-source too, since it would also be hard to bypass even if that happened. So there’s not really an argument to not make it open-source.

        • TCB13@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          And… people are gonna say you’re spreading false information in 3,2,1…

  • wolre@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    As others have already mentioned, there will be EU regulation that comes into effect soon that will force messengers to be interoperable. Despite following the topic quite actively, it still seems to be quite uncertain how this interoperability will look like. I also have some concerns about companies making interoperability opt-in, requiring users to go to the app settings and manually turning it on or presenting them with a popup that makes it seem like interoperability is a security risk (a Meta spokesperson revealed that they were pushing for a solution like that pretty heavily). Either way, before trying to get other people to migrate to another platform I would first wait and see what the implications of this regulation are.

  • Elise@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    Here in the NL it’s almost like some kind of privatized utility. It’s used for sensitive things too.

    A while ago there was an audit: Lo and behold the backups weren’t e2ee. What ever happened to warrants?

    Well I just told everyone I’m switching a few years back and that’s that. And actually a lot of people switched because they preferred it over email and SMS.

    It’s best to avoid trying to persuade others. Just say how they can contact you and leave it at that.

    • hypelightfly@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Exactly, just stop using it yourself and let others know how they can still contact you. If they aren’t willing to do that they aren’t worth talking to in the first place.

      • Elise@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        To be fair I did have to install discord to stay in contact with a good friend. It’s such a piece of junk I don’t see what she likes about it, but ahh well.

        • hypelightfly@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          “I will only talk to you if you use discord” doesn’t sound like a good friend to me but if that works for you go for it.

          • Elise@beehaw.org
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            1 year ago

            Haha yea people can be all up in arms about nothing. And I’m sure my behavior appears the same to them. She’s one of the most amazing people I know, incredibly kind and patient, and has always supported me in many ways.