You must log in or # to comment.
This is legit why I have like two male friends left tbh. After 2016 I stopped giving a fuck. The problem… or maybe the cause in a way… is that I’m an oddly assertive introvert so it’s very easy for me to end up in a situation where I’m doing nothing but going off on people and making drama.
Weird… as a cis heterosexual white male, I don’t find myself hanging around people that I need to censor or correct at all. I’ve proactively cut all of those people out of my life within the past 8 years. My friends are the folks you don’t need to tell stuff like this to.
I will say, in the process of removing people that were awful, they tend to just laugh when they are “corrected,” as they find amusement in the antagonization. Once you separate yourself from them, it’s just 2-3 confused text messages and that’s the end of it.
I do (cuz family). Calling them out like this is one of my favorite pastimes since they think I’m 100% with them. Stopping them in their tracks can be really entertaining
My family is conservative and I’m still dependant on them for healthcare, so calling them out usually isn’t worth it although sometimes I still do.
Please do what’s safest for you! The family I mentioned is actually my cousins’ in-laws, so there’s no real consequence
Not saying cutting people out is wrong, you do you. But don’t you think all of this alienation we are collectively doing is leading to the echo chambers that reinforce bad behaviors?
I do, but I don’t want to be around those people. I don’t think being around them (and trying to influence) changes anything for the better either.
I can only control my own behavior. I cannot force another to change, they have to want to. The only thing I can do is draw the lines I’m willing to live within and live by them. And if not associating with bad people, even if they are family, is what I need to live in a healthy way, so be it.
I hear you, but idk what to do. I can’t engage with someone who says out loud things like “I want trump to become a dictator” and “democracy is overrated” and “your body my choice” and don’t seem to care at all that mass deporting 10+million people WILL lead to mass murder. It’s impossible to have a discussion in good faith with these people. They’ve just demonstrated that the last 8-9 years is a feature, not a bug, and let the mask off about who they really are. They’ve alienated themselves by leaving the realm of reality.
I’m not really sure. One of the most common complaints among the less extreme portions of the right is that the left is too intolerant and strict and not fun to be around. And being more welcoming of the person themselves, even while acknowledging to yourself that their beliefs are severely flawed (possibly due to factors such as propaganda, peer pressure, religious beliefs), might be a way to help capture that crowd and work to win them over.
At the same time, there needs to be a line drawn somewhere where the person is clearly being malicious and possibly dangerous and is a lost cause. Stuff like “your body my choice”, using slurs, praising suicides of marginalized people, etc isn’t worth tolerating. Also when it comes to group activities, allowing these sort of people and ideas makes minorities uncomfortable, so when they leave to someplace more comfortable now your group is just full of Nazis. I seen no problem with cutting these sort of people out.
They think this is a culture war. They believe they are at war with ideas they do not like.
They will not give ground until forced to do so. They will only do so begrudgingly, and insincerely, waiting for the day they can claw it back.
They see you as an enemy, and they give themselves rage chubbies at the thought of refusing to negotiate.
Absolutely, if you hear this nonsense, call it out, but be prepared for it to escalate.
Let’s return to a time when saying that crap out loud was enough to end a career. Make them afraid to be bigoted in public again.
Nah, there’s nothing louder than silence.
Wipe all expression from your face, and stare at them. Maybe just an expression of incredulity if this is out of character for them. That’s all it takes.
Bystanders will literally stop what they’re doing and watch. Their brains will scream “I’m about to be excluded from the group”, and they’ll start babbling. They’ll confess their sins and be harsher on themselves than anything you could say
If you don’t like their next words, give them nothing. Literally don’t respond, anything you give them is closure. Don’t give them closure, move on with your life - they can’t.
Don’t give them judgement, give them nothing. If you judge them, they can turn themselves into a victim or you into an enemy… Without a response, the only enemy is themselves, because they will crave your approval.
It’s like a teacher staring down a student who keeps talking until the whole class is looking at them, except they don’t know what to do to make it stop. So they try anything and wrack their brain for a solution. It seriously freaks people out
Note: this is less likely to work against neurodivergent people, they’ll just be confused. That’s how I learned to do this - I got annoyed and straight up asked a therapist why they kept staring at me when I was done talking. They explained the concept of a pregnant pause, and so I started using it.
And acquaintances started telling me how they were abused to explain their behavior and strangers started confessing how they cheated on their partners out of nowhere.
I get a lot of long apology emails the day after someone wrongs me, I now make an effort to give closure to everyone I like early and often.
Humans are tortured by this
I’m mostly onboard here, but there’s some nuance to consider.
Wipe all expression from your face, and stare at them. […] Bystanders will literally stop what they’re doing and watch.
Fact. Monkey see, monkey do. If you physically pass as someone older and wiser, this works even better.
Their brains will scream “I’m about to be excluded from the group”, and they’ll start babbling. They’ll confess their sins and be harsher on themselves than anything you could say
Plausible, but I think this outcome is one of many possible. Pressing on an individual’s psychological weak-spots can trigger a fight/flight/freeze/fawn reflex; your anecdotes are centered on the “fawn” response. I would caution the reader that, unless you know that person well, you really can’t predict which of the four you will get in this situation. If doing this you MUST be prepared for that fight reflex to kick in; they may get mouthy and/or physical. Social justice is important, but do take your opponent’s height, weight, build, and if they are armed into account, before proceeding.
Nah, that’s the beauty of it. You’re not the enemy. You’re not attacking them. You’re giving them absolute attention, but giving nothing back
It’s pure judgement. And they don’t know the verdict yet
Their fight response won’t be aimed at you, but they’ll certainly throw others under the bus. They might lash out at you, but they’ll quickly wilt when you still give with nothing. It’s just angry human noises, ignore them
Their flight response won’t kick in, because it overrides human instincts. Walking away is a conscious decision in this case, and most humans aren’t self aware enough to choose it
It’s the third path. You take all the power in the interaction, you cut off the other roads, and you engineer a choice that is only fawn or slink away quietly in defeat
Ah, so that’s the key. I’m not eager to try this, but I’ll absolutely keep it in mind should I need it. Thank you.
You’re very welcome, this is exactly the kind of tool I want to put in the right hands
But I do hope you don’t need it, so there’s also variants I hope you will use
The pregnant pause is the version I derived it from - instead of blanking your body language, you project encouragement and full attention. It makes people feel awkward, but it gives them the urge to keep talking to fill the silence
It’s a therapy tool, but great for any kind of teaching - for example, I have a friend with bad imposter syndrome who I’ve been mentoring in software development for the last few years. When I help him, he has a bad habit of shutting off his brain and second guessing himself. I’ve been telling him for a decade he has an aptitude for it, but all he saw was how I could glance at his code and zero in on the problem… But I’ve been doing this for almost 2 decades and I also have an aptitude for it, and no matter how much I tell him “it’s just experience, and you’re genuinely good at this” or “I only know because I’ve been in your situation before” he would shut down
So I’d hit him with the pregnant pause after asking a leading question to get him thinking along the correct lines. Sometimes he’s already too frazzled to think and I’ll just tell him the answer before it drags on uncomfortably long and he feels stupid, but usually he knows and I’ll give him validation before expanding on the topic
Last week, he called me to tell me he did the same thing for someone else. The week before, someone accused him of causing a bug and he stood his ground without rereading his code (correctly). He regularly calls me to tell me about a lesson of mine that has helped him, and more and more I have nothing more to add, I’m looking forward to the day when he pushes back against me
The key here is lack of judgement - you have to find a reason to give them validation immediately. From there you can break it down or correct them, but they need to feel good at the moment you give your verdict, even if what they said is wrong. Only then you correct them or expound on the topic
It’s good for any time you want to get someone talking or make them feel awkward - you can use it for jokes, teaching, or encouraging them to get something off their chest. So long as you do it right, it builds trust and deepens relationships - and again, the important bit is they must walk away feeling like you didn’t judge them when they opened up
Just be sure you want that deeper relationship with that person - everyone has horrible intrusive thoughts sometimes, and if you don’t fully believe in their fundamental goodness you might end up hearing things you aren’t equipped to deal with
Despite being LGBT+ that friend repeats shit blasted at him from far right social media, and I know he’s not that person so I help him unpack it and get to the core truths behind it (and he’s come a long way). I know my sister and closest brother are very empathic people, so when they say shit out of left field I know to break it down instead of taking it at face value
People often don’t know what they’re saying, because propaganda works - if you encourage people to open up to you unfiltered, you’ll cut deep if you don’t come from a place of understanding. But there’s great power there - people will tell you exactly what’s going on with them, and they’ll listen when you dive into it
“I won’t let you talk to them that way” is a bad one that doesn’t belong on this list. It implies you’re in control of them, which you’re not. It’s essentially a bluff, and if they call it, you need to be able to beat them up.
To add more good phrases to this list, the phrases need to imply that the person still has their own agency (because they do), and that it’s just a dipshit way to use that agency. The other phrases are great.
Ask them to explain the “joke” then once they finish say I didn’t find the joke funny.
I do this, but then I pick it apart to make it really painful.
“Oh, jokes just normally have a punchline and aren’t just stating something really backwards”
what’s the counter to “whatever you just dont get it 🙄”??
“it’s just not funny.”
What’s there to get? Why can’t you explain it? Feeling uncomfortable?
They can’t ever explain the joke, though.
That’s half the fun. Watching them squirm and try to figure out how to explain the joke without saying the -ism out loud when they realize they’re not in “safe” company.
This one’s my go-to.
As long as 1 singular person finds the joke funny it still counts as a joke.
I have a lot of jokes where my friends don’t find them funny. But there’s always a punch line, some smart wordplay, terrible pun, even if they feel like it’s too forced (smh).
Racists do know that openly saying that “minorities being abused is funny” sounds racist as fuck, so they try to avoid explaining their jokes.
You don’t need to be cisgender, heterosexual, male or white to call people out on their bigoted beliefs.
Edit: if you are in those categories you’re more likely to be taken more seriously by other cishet white men. I think I understand the point of the original post now.
No, but bigoted, cisgendered, heterosexual white men are probably more likely to listen to other cisgendered heterosexual white men due to their bigotry.
Someone disagreeing within Chad Junior’s very narrow social circle will mean more to him than someone outside of the circle, especially if that person is also unlike Chad Junior in several ways. Unfortunate as it is.
In my experience that is almost never the case. They’ll just call you a liberal soyboy or something and never think on it further.
Definitely. It’s just an amplifier. Imagine a protestor saying “too many cops are violent and need to cool it”, as opposed to a cop saying “too many cops are violent and need to cool it”
Exactly. Also some of us have learned to fear pushing back against cishet men who are being aggressive. As a trans lesbian I’m not going to improve the situation with confrontation, I’ll just get shouted at, called a snowflake, or otherwise dismissed. But when say, my girlfriend’s husband, a very large extremely masculine cishet guy challenges it, it may not always go well, but it’s perceived as peer disapproval as opposed to “triggering the enemy”.
Oh, I got it. Thanks
It’s like you missed the point entirely
ITT: a lot of people reading this to be specifically and only for cis white men, but they’re talking about the power any in-group member has to shut down bigoted shit and that’s what we should be focusing on. In a space where the biggest in-group is black women this post would be about them, but the most common “in-group” (disproportionately so) is white cis men so that’s who they mention. If this is making you feel attacked or targeted then please set aside that part of it and don’t discard the actual message, because this is honestly something everyone should think about.
Anytime you’re accepted somewhere, whether in public or among strangers, you have a lot of social power when it comes to setting the tone of conversation - one loud idiot can make a space feel extremely hostile to an outsider, and if everybody gives a polite laugh instead of speaking up that idiot learns saying things like that is okay and the “outsider” learns they’re not truly welcome. Literally one person who speaks up instead of letting it fly can solve this - the message is to be that person, not to attack anyone in particular.
If this is making you feel attacked or targeted
As a “cis het white man”, I wouldn’t dream to feel attacked by this and find it mind-boggling how anyone could be so fucking braindead and/or tone-deaf that they would feel attacked. But here we are, in a world where there is a “soon to be Nazi-America” where there was once the united states of America.
Look at you, with the hemispheres of your brain actually somewhat separate from one another.
It’s really refreshing to have someone actually get the meaning behind this meme instead of say ‘not all men’ or the equivalent.
I want to know why you, and so many others apparently, cannot grasp the idea of pointing out why one aspect of something is problematic without, by default, being an implication that the entire thing is wrong or that they hate all of it etc etc.
I’m not even offended by it, but I get why someone would be, but that doesn’t take away from the point of the post either. It’s really fucking weird and feels intellectually dishonest.
-
Slight lean back
-
Expression of baffled disgust
-
Quietly: “The fuck?”
Cuts deep
“Bruh”
If you’re especially non-confrontational, then even the first one, or 0 reaction, can do. Just don’t do the polite chuckle. They’ll think it landed.
I have to work really hard not to laugh myself, and instead let it be awkward.
yes. Relish the beautiful silence.
-
These comments, yeesh. I am a cis white dude, and I don’t see how this post is offensive. As I’ve gotten older and more self-confident, I absolutely call people out for their garbage opinions/statements. Being a cis/straight/white dude it happens all the time that somebody says something racist/sexist/homophobic in front of me assuming I’ll be sympathetic. I’ve used all these “scripts” and encourage you all to use them also.
Do you hear yourself right now?
'Cause you’re spot on!
Yeah I’m not cis, het, or a dude, but I do this stuff when people assume I’ll join in racism. I’ll challenge that shit and attempt to help lead them to the truth
If I know I’ll have to talk to them again soon I’ll just awkwardly look away, hoping they figure it out themselves but other than that I try to be the exact same.
This is the way
“Bro, not cool.” With a stern look always sets the homies straight.
But what if want to set them gay?
Honestly I haven’t had to say something in almost a decade
You’re hanging out with the right people
It’s all about where you live and what you look like.
I’m a huge white dude in a red state, I’ve been getting hit on by nazis since before I was a teenager because I look like their “ideal”.
Like, when they picture their “master race” it’s what I look like, so they always fucking assume I’ll agree with any side comment they make.
If you’re not in a super blue area, you’re not hearing stuff because something identifies you as “them” and not “us”. But even in blue areas I’ll hear shit.
I’m a white American immigrant in Germany. The shit people say to me about immigrants, which they then walk back with “but not you, you’re one of the good ones,” is infuriating.
The “do you hear yourself right now?” is a good one, gonna use it well
I’m going to use all of these except the “I won’t let you” because that could trigger the right wing persecution complex, and/or sound like fighting words.
I want them to think normal people (not me tbh) are put off by their weird shit.
it also reminds me of the whiteknighting “alpha” cliche; “i will protect u, my princess”. maybe thats just me.
Oh hey it’s that mean voice in my head
My personal go-to is, “They’re a human being, just like you.”
Sadly, they often disagree. The whole basis of bigotry is the idea that I’m human and you’re less than.
“… aren’t.”
Being human doesn’t make you good. Plenty of humans are monsters. They’re not some eldritch evil that simply started existing hating, they chose this.
That makes them worse, of course… but still very very human.
Yeah, humans are fucking awful, by and large. Just look at the entirety of human history.
In drag’s experience, calling someone a human is a tremendously vicious insult if you have cool enough friends.
