A prolonged incursion into Russia could escalate the conflict, drawing in other nations and potentially leading to a catastrophic global confrontation.
Bit of a joke to write this, isn’t it. The one country that is escalating things is Russia. They could have always moved back and have given up and this would all be over. Maybe Ukraine would leave the Russian territory if Russia leaves Ukrainian territory? Not sure that’s on the table.
Edit: coming back to all the reactions. Just wow, hilarious.
Edit2: haha, they even come back to monitor edits. Fun times.
that is the point you mental child, “they could just give up though” is the dumbest shit that anybody’s wasted time typing out in this thread
particularly when Ukraine has been losing since Russia invaded in 2022. You get how conflicts work, right? The guys winning never surrender, because they’re fucking winning
You have a child’s understanding of politics and conflict, maybe even less so. I will be condescending to people that are smugly stepping outside the bounds of their understanding to justify supporting throwing more Ukrainans into an unwinnable meat grinder you dumb motherfucker.
What does it tell you that they hate Russia so much (everyone does), that they’re happy to run to Russia’s worst enemy?
None of this matters, Russia won’t be a country in 10-15 years anyway, between us supporting all their internal ethnic groups which will break away into their own “stans” and otherwise arming everyone who hates them, they’ll be shattered just like in the 90s, and this time we’ll keep them that way.
We should give Ukraine their nukes back just so they don’t have to suffer through this period.
What does it tell you that they hate Russia so much (everyone does), that they’re happy to run to Russia’s worst enemy?
They didn’t hate Russia. They voted to align with Russia as opposed to the IMF/WB deal with the west. But since Ukraine belongs to the west, they weren’t allowed to have a democratic election. You should know about a subject before you spout off about it.
It’s not genocide, freeing all those poor, oppressed minorities under the Russian Empire.
It’s liberation, the freedom they deserve.
You must be too young to remember when gorbechev offered Ukraine to stay in the new federation and they clearly said no.
Who in their right mind would voluntarily want to be Russian?
Most countries have something in their past to be proud of, Russia just has humiliation after humiliation after humiliation, all self_inflicted.
Or inflicted on others, like the holodomor or all the purges.
But seriously though, we owe them. They managed to unite the west with their invasion, they grew NATO and made Xi give up on taking Taiwan. Without their help we might have actually had to do something.
Russia as an enemy is the greatest ally anyone can have.
They elected Yanukovych. Then the west performed a coup on them. Then the definition of “they” changed when you and your nazi friends started doing ethnic cleansing in the east against the people who made up the majority of that election. After that calling anything later an ‘election’ is trash.
The only ethnic cleansing Ukraine did was clearing all the Russian scrap trash from the Black Sea.
Not that it needed much help, the Russian navy is famous for turning their cruisers into submarines and their submarines into permanent submarines themselves.
The Ukrainians were always the intelligent ones in the Russian empire and later the Soviet Union, without them Russia can’t keep lost of their tech going.
The west needs to move further though, Finland and Sweden simply isn’t enough, we need to build up Georgia as well, and Armenia now that they’ve realized how useless an ally Russia is.
We let russia go too far for too long, it’s finally time to end this nuisance so we can focus on problems that actually matter.
Do you know what escalation means? Russia hasn’t escalated shit since it launched the invasion. Each thing Russia has done since the invasion is part of the invasion. They haven’t attacked other nations, they haven’t embargoed or disrupted trade beyond their own borders, they haven’t introduced new weapons platforms, they haven’t made attempts to decapitate Ukrainian leadership.
Ukraine and the West are escalating. They’ve been escalating literally since the end of the Cold War. Each country on the border of Russia that got NATO nuclear sites was an escalation. Each color revolution was an escalation. Each sanction was an escalation. Each call for a no fly zone was an escalation. Each new weapons platform sent to Ukraine was an escalation. Each use of Western military intelligence to coordinate Ukrainian strikes was an escalation. Each time Ukraine struck civilian infrastructure inside Russia was an escalation.
You are using words you hear people say but you don’t understand them.
Russia has had one demand since the USSR was dismantled - no NATO operations in Ukraine. When the USA escalated and supported the coup in 2014, Russia escalated and took Crimea. When the fascists in Ukraine escalated and sent paramilitary forces to terrorize and mass murder ethnic Russians, Russia escalated with paramilitary of its own in the region. When Ukraine escalated by pursuing NATO operations in its country and NATO made noise like it might, like when Trump escalated and approved the first weapons shipment to Ukraine in US history, Russia escalated by invading the border region. That’s all of Russia’s escalatory moves - 1 every 5 years or so. It’s Ukraine and the West that have escalated since then. Sanctioning Russia was an escalation. Seizing Russian assets in violation of international law was an escalation. Sending lethal aid each year totalling more than the entire Russian military budget was an escalation. Sending Western intelligence, trainers, and even combatants to harm Russia are all escalatory moves.
The one country that is escalating things is Russia. They could have always moved back and have given up and this would all be over.
Are you fucking serious
What do you call expanding NATO? You think that isn’t escalation because, what, “it’s a defensive pact”? You really don’t see how a country like Russia could view an encirclement of “defensive” pacts as aggressive, when it has constantly stated that Ukraine joining NATO is a red line?
You don’t think NATO discussing sending NUKES TO UKRAINE, putting them within MINUTES OF MOSCOW, is in any way an escalation?
What the FUCK is wrong with you fucking people
NATO could have simply not attempted to expand, Ukraine could have simply honored the Minsk agreement and stopped genociding Russians in the Donbas, but you don’t say shit like that, you think it’s entirely on Russia. Brainwashed ass motherfucker
Your attempt to communicate through memes reveals your surface level understanding of the conflict. Congratulations, like all the other NATO lovers you are impossibly ignorant of world events.
I know personally I think the winning side is the one that’s lost all important strategic territory, has lost most of its male population, literally has to kidnap people to conscript them, and has recently spent buckets of its own blood taking territory that not only doesn’t matter but would be impossible to hold if they wanted to
NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev HeardU.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University.
The Ukraine Mess That Nuland MadeAssistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences.
The West’s Sabotage of Peace in UkraineIn May of [2022] Ukrainian media reported that then-British prime minister Boris Johnson had flown to Kiev the previous month to pass on the message on behalf of the western empire that “Putin is a war criminal, he should be pressured, not negotiated with,” and that “even if Ukraine is ready to sign some agreements on guarantees with Putin, they are not.”
Russia is so terrified of Nato encroachment that they stripped their defenses along the Finnish boarder shortly after Finland joined Nato, and they’ve moved all the defenses at this point (first weapons, now troops) out of Kaliningrad.
Ok I get it now. You guys are living (or LARPing in) a fantasy world where the Soviet Union still exists and Russia isn’t a right-wing revanchist kleptocratic dictatorship.
Nobody here is confusing contemporary capitalist Russia with communist Russia. And this war isn’t about revanchism, it’s about a decade of ethnic cleaning in eastern Ukraine and two and a half decades of US/NATO military expansion toward Russia’s borders.
The one country that is escalating things is Russia.
This war is literally only happening because of the US and the other countries in NATO. Don’t think you should be writing such pithy statements if your understanding of the war is equivalent to a Star Wars plotline.
At least in Star Wars they explain the context with the scroll at the start of the movie, libs think that Ukraine literally popped into existence in 2022.
Yeah I’m on the verge of blocking ml as well as hexbear, it’s insane the level of mental gymnastics that’s happening. Like what do they think Russia is going to do any less damage to the world than America if they get the chance?
do they think Russia is going to do any less damage to the world than America if they get the chance
Very probably, yes.
Around 20 years ago Russia—at the time lead by Putin—wanted to join the imperialism club, but the US rejected them. Ex-Nato head says Putin wanted to join alliance early on in his rule. Since then Russia, rejected by the Global North, has had no choice but to join with the Global South as allies instead of neocolonizers. Hence BRICS+ and the larger developing multipolar bloc that’s going its own way, ignoring the US’ “rules-based international order” sanctions, developing its own international balance of payments outside of US dollar hegemony, and working to get out from under the boot of the IMF’s & World Bank’s debt traps.
Why did the US reject Russia from joining NATO? Because the US doesn’t want Europe and Russia to develop closer ties, because it doesn’t want the “Eurasian landmass” to ever cohere, because then it would become too self-sufficient and powerful for the US to control. Zbigniew Brzezinski laid this theory out when the Soviet Union fell. That’s why the US tried to convince Europe not to build Nord Stream 2 and then later not to turn it on, why Biden said he would “bring an end to it” if Russia invaded, and why they ultimately did bring an end to it.
The US also very much wants regime change or balkanization in Russia so it can resume its neocolonial “shock therapy” plundering of it, which started under Yeltsin and ended under Putin. That’s why the US has a special hate-on for Putin.
Compare what Russia has done in the last 80 years to the US:
As for the US’ actions against post-Soviet Russia in particular:
The US has wanted to break up or otherwise weaken/isolate Russia ever since almost immediately after the break-up of the USSR. That’s why it’s been expanding NATO ever-closer to Russia despite originally having sworn up & down never to move one inch eastward. The US couldn’t allow a Ukrainian government to stand that was friendly with Russia. That’s why it couped Ukraine’s government in 2014.
Bit of a joke to write this, isn’t it. The one country that is escalating things is Russia. They could have always moved back and have given up and this would all be over. Maybe Ukraine would leave the Russian territory if Russia leaves Ukrainian territory? Not sure that’s on the table.
Edit: coming back to all the reactions. Just wow, hilarious.
Edit2: haha, they even come back to monitor edits. Fun times.
Ukraine could surrender at any time and this would all be over
So could Russia, whats your point?
that is the point you mental child, “they could just give up though” is the dumbest shit that anybody’s wasted time typing out in this thread
particularly when Ukraine has been losing since Russia invaded in 2022. You get how conflicts work, right? The guys winning never surrender, because they’re fucking winning
liberals are so stupid
oh wow be careful to not cut yourself on all that edge.
This is why people hate liberals. Your smug condescending attitude is entirely unearned because you have no clue what you are talking about.
lol as if the comment above wasn’t condescending too.
You forgot the operative word “unearned”.
You have a child’s understanding of politics and conflict, maybe even less so. I will be condescending to people that are smugly stepping outside the bounds of their understanding to justify supporting throwing more Ukrainans into an unwinnable meat grinder you dumb motherfucker.
Give condescension, get it back. You know, like a military response to an invasion or something
Basic analysis of a military conflict is… Edgy?!!
you know that’s not the part I’m referring to.
So the edgy part was when they called you dumb?
I legitimately don’t know what part you were calling edgy??
Like for real though what was edgy about it, you have to tell us
@FiskFisk33@startrek.website Please?
Are you ever planning to share which part of the comment you found edgy?
Be careful not to choke to death next time you try to eat and do anything else at the same time, don’t want to overload that brain cell
Hexbear living up to the expectations as usual :D
Yes, you should expect to get dunked on mercilessly when you parade your embarrassingly stupid ideas around in leftist spaces
cool story
Which part was edgy, the part where I called you a fucking moron because you think the world works like a child’s cartoon?
This is the most “Error: No comeback found, default to 2015-era 9gag joke” shit I’ve seen in a minute
bot ass reply
(The point was to illustrate how stupid your comment was)
Since you apparently like Star Trek, here’s a video clip describing your situation
It’s their country.
Russia could surrender Moscow too.
Would actually turn out better for Russians, liberate them from their gangster kakistocracy.
No it isn’t. It belongs to the US. If it were their country they would have been allowed to have a democratic election. They weren’t.
What does it tell you that they hate Russia so much (everyone does), that they’re happy to run to Russia’s worst enemy?
None of this matters, Russia won’t be a country in 10-15 years anyway, between us supporting all their internal ethnic groups which will break away into their own “stans” and otherwise arming everyone who hates them, they’ll be shattered just like in the 90s, and this time we’ll keep them that way.
We should give Ukraine their nukes back just so they don’t have to suffer through this period.
They didn’t hate Russia. They voted to align with Russia as opposed to the IMF/WB deal with the west. But since Ukraine belongs to the west, they weren’t allowed to have a democratic election. You should know about a subject before you spout off about it.
lol @ all the delusional genocidal dumb shit
They had one, they elected zelensky.
It’s not genocide, freeing all those poor, oppressed minorities under the Russian Empire.
It’s liberation, the freedom they deserve.
You must be too young to remember when gorbechev offered Ukraine to stay in the new federation and they clearly said no.
Who in their right mind would voluntarily want to be Russian?
Most countries have something in their past to be proud of, Russia just has humiliation after humiliation after humiliation, all self_inflicted.
Or inflicted on others, like the holodomor or all the purges.
But seriously though, we owe them. They managed to unite the west with their invasion, they grew NATO and made Xi give up on taking Taiwan. Without their help we might have actually had to do something.
Russia as an enemy is the greatest ally anyone can have.
They elected Yanukovych. Then the west performed a coup on them. Then the definition of “they” changed when you and your nazi friends started doing ethnic cleansing in the east against the people who made up the majority of that election. After that calling anything later an ‘election’ is trash.
You come off like a legit psycho.
Yeah ok, this is just sad.
The only ethnic cleansing Ukraine did was clearing all the Russian scrap trash from the Black Sea.
Not that it needed much help, the Russian navy is famous for turning their cruisers into submarines and their submarines into permanent submarines themselves.
The Ukrainians were always the intelligent ones in the Russian empire and later the Soviet Union, without them Russia can’t keep lost of their tech going.
The west needs to move further though, Finland and Sweden simply isn’t enough, we need to build up Georgia as well, and Armenia now that they’ve realized how useless an ally Russia is.
We let russia go too far for too long, it’s finally time to end this nuisance so we can focus on problems that actually matter.
Lmao what? Eeww dude, gross, your brain is leaking onto my shoe
Do you know what escalation means? Russia hasn’t escalated shit since it launched the invasion. Each thing Russia has done since the invasion is part of the invasion. They haven’t attacked other nations, they haven’t embargoed or disrupted trade beyond their own borders, they haven’t introduced new weapons platforms, they haven’t made attempts to decapitate Ukrainian leadership.
Ukraine and the West are escalating. They’ve been escalating literally since the end of the Cold War. Each country on the border of Russia that got NATO nuclear sites was an escalation. Each color revolution was an escalation. Each sanction was an escalation. Each call for a no fly zone was an escalation. Each new weapons platform sent to Ukraine was an escalation. Each use of Western military intelligence to coordinate Ukrainian strikes was an escalation. Each time Ukraine struck civilian infrastructure inside Russia was an escalation.
You are using words you hear people say but you don’t understand them.
Russia has had one demand since the USSR was dismantled - no NATO operations in Ukraine. When the USA escalated and supported the coup in 2014, Russia escalated and took Crimea. When the fascists in Ukraine escalated and sent paramilitary forces to terrorize and mass murder ethnic Russians, Russia escalated with paramilitary of its own in the region. When Ukraine escalated by pursuing NATO operations in its country and NATO made noise like it might, like when Trump escalated and approved the first weapons shipment to Ukraine in US history, Russia escalated by invading the border region. That’s all of Russia’s escalatory moves - 1 every 5 years or so. It’s Ukraine and the West that have escalated since then. Sanctioning Russia was an escalation. Seizing Russian assets in violation of international law was an escalation. Sending lethal aid each year totalling more than the entire Russian military budget was an escalation. Sending Western intelligence, trainers, and even combatants to harm Russia are all escalatory moves.
They also could have done to Ukraine what Israel has done to Palestine, destroy all vital infrastructure and plunge the population into the stone age
But no, the libs are right, putin just keeps escalating omg the escalator is reaching into space!
Are you fucking serious
What do you call expanding NATO? You think that isn’t escalation because, what, “it’s a defensive pact”? You really don’t see how a country like Russia could view an encirclement of “defensive” pacts as aggressive, when it has constantly stated that Ukraine joining NATO is a red line?
You don’t think NATO discussing sending NUKES TO UKRAINE, putting them within MINUTES OF MOSCOW, is in any way an escalation?
What the FUCK is wrong with you fucking people
NATO could have simply not attempted to expand, Ukraine could have simply honored the Minsk agreement and stopped genociding Russians in the Donbas, but you don’t say shit like that, you think it’s entirely on Russia. Brainwashed ass motherfucker
This is fucking stupid on so many levels lmao
If your political meme has to reverse the flow of time and causality to make any sense, maybe your politics are stupid?
Your attempt to communicate through memes reveals your surface level understanding of the conflict. Congratulations, like all the other NATO lovers you are impossibly ignorant of world events.
“The winning side could simply surrender and give everything back”
I am a geopolitical mastermind
Winning side 🤔
Edit: misread lol, yeah Russia absolutely is winning
I know personally I think the winning side is the one that’s lost all important strategic territory, has lost most of its male population, literally has to kidnap people to conscript them, and has recently spent buckets of its own blood taking territory that not only doesn’t matter but would be impossible to hold if they wanted to
#winning
Why would the Murican give such assurance to a failing empire? What would the Russians do ? Not collapse ? Kill a bunch of people as they retreat ?
Russia is so terrified of Nato encroachment that they stripped their defenses along the Finnish boarder shortly after Finland joined Nato, and they’ve moved all the defenses at this point (first weapons, now troops) out of Kaliningrad.
.
That’s a rude way to describe Saint Petersburg.
Is it hard to post on Lemmy from inside a locker?
Where’s that? Is it near Leningrad?
Ok I get it now. You guys are living (or LARPing in) a fantasy world where the Soviet Union still exists and Russia isn’t a right-wing revanchist kleptocratic dictatorship.
Nobody here is confusing contemporary capitalist Russia with communist Russia. And this war isn’t about revanchism, it’s about a decade of ethnic cleaning in eastern Ukraine and two and a half decades of US/NATO military expansion toward Russia’s borders.
A swing and a miss. You asked a dumb question so somebody else asked you a dumb question. You’re being made fun of.
Why is it that you liberals consistently cannot understand when they’re being made fun of? It’s pathological.
It was a joke…
It’s okay to admit you’re incapable of grappling with reality and prefer to stay inside your NATO mind palace
This war is literally only happening because of the US and the other countries in NATO. Don’t think you should be writing such pithy statements if your understanding of the war is equivalent to a Star Wars plotline.
At least in Star Wars they explain the context with the scroll at the start of the movie, libs think that Ukraine literally popped into existence in 2022.
They don’t even remember what Trump’s first impeachment was about
They’re out there watching you 👀
It’s a .ml community. What did you expect?
Yeah I’m on the verge of blocking ml as well as hexbear, it’s insane the level of mental gymnastics that’s happening. Like what do they think Russia is going to do any less damage to the world than America if they get the chance?
Very probably, yes.
Around 20 years ago Russia—at the time lead by Putin—wanted to join the imperialism club, but the US rejected them. Ex-Nato head says Putin wanted to join alliance early on in his rule. Since then Russia, rejected by the Global North, has had no choice but to join with the Global South as allies instead of neocolonizers. Hence BRICS+ and the larger developing multipolar bloc that’s going its own way, ignoring the US’ “rules-based international order” sanctions, developing its own international balance of payments outside of US dollar hegemony, and working to get out from under the boot of the IMF’s & World Bank’s debt traps.
Why did the US reject Russia from joining NATO? Because the US doesn’t want Europe and Russia to develop closer ties, because it doesn’t want the “Eurasian landmass” to ever cohere, because then it would become too self-sufficient and powerful for the US to control. Zbigniew Brzezinski laid this theory out when the Soviet Union fell. That’s why the US tried to convince Europe not to build Nord Stream 2 and then later not to turn it on, why Biden said he would “bring an end to it” if Russia invaded, and why they ultimately did bring an end to it.
The US also very much wants regime change or balkanization in Russia so it can resume its neocolonial “shock therapy” plundering of it, which started under Yeltsin and ended under Putin. That’s why the US has a special hate-on for Putin.
Compare what Russia has done in the last 80 years to the US:
As for the US’ actions against post-Soviet Russia in particular:
The US has wanted to break up or otherwise weaken/isolate Russia ever since almost immediately after the break-up of the USSR. That’s why it’s been expanding NATO ever-closer to Russia despite originally having sworn up & down never to move one inch eastward. The US couldn’t allow a Ukrainian government to stand that was friendly with Russia. That’s why it couped Ukraine’s government in 2014.
Not about that. They have some misguided notion that Russia stands for some imaginary form of communism that is the answer to everything.
And everything bad in the world is because of Capitalism. And also, everything west of Russia is “The west” and the entire “the west” is one entity.
That’s a shit strawman. Literally no one thinks that.
Unfortunately, I’ve had plenty of conversations here with people who think exactly this.
So yes, there are people who literally think this.
Show me a Lemmy conversation where someone thought that Russia stands for communism in any way. Only right-wing doofuses ever make such claims.
No, that’s just what you put in their mouths because you’re stupid and intransigent