What is the point of this community, if we can’t have a discussion? I’ve been really disappointed with the ML stance on this war, and am not even allowed to publicly discuss my opinion in any existing ML community without my comment getting deleted.
This Rule : “No support nor defence of Ukraine, NATO or Western Imperialism” just encourages an echo chamber.
Really getting discouraged comrades. Do better.
There’s not much good to support as far as Ukraine, NATO, or Western Imperialism goes. Obviously the fewer Ukrainians die the better. I’m not pro-Russia, but the rule doesn’t forbid that. What opinions in defence of NATO / Ukraine do you have that you think would get you banned?
in the end im worried that this war will only accomplish these things: many innocent dead, my birth country completely destroyed, neo-nazi groups all over the world (in the West and in the East) will become stronger, the suffering of Russian citizens due to sanctions and due to government actions such as (censorship, violence, jail time, cover ups via murder), increased Russian xenophobia, increased homelessness in Europe, increased prices in Europe, NATO getting stronger, broken Ukrainian families, broken Russian families, increased imperialism
i also think Russia is very against the marxist viewpoint in general, and the censorship happening along with the threat of prison time for speaking against the state is troubling to me, many of my Russian friends are trying to figure out how to leave right now before its completely impossible (even though it already is nearly impossible to leave)
also the language thing is not true, I do not know Ukrainian so I only speak Russian every time I visit and it’s never been an issue, in fact most people speak it back to me.
i also do not like that there are people who are virtue signaling by ignoring what is happening in Ukraine and instead start saying “lets save palestine, syria, etc.” …especially because a lot of these people have never before spoken up that much about these conflicts in the middle east/asia…this does not benefit those people in the countries in the middle east, these keyboard warriors as they are sometimes called are creating cognitive dissonance and pretending to be activists, only benefiting themselves to appear more moral than the rest of their peers. I think the best resources on this conflict are independent journalists who are right there on the frontlines or people like me with family in the country who are getting a direct POV of what is going on. Unfortunately, I’m not seeing a lot of that on most left-leaning forums right now, instead many sources are from large organizations that are biased towards one or the other
my homeland Crimea has been under sanctions for 8 years now. I will never forget February 22, 2014 when Putin marched his army into Crimea. It was Putin who brought Igor Gurkin’s army into Donbass, it was Putin who stealthily sent the Russian forces to Donbass in 2014. NATO is definitely to blame, but the bigger person to blame is Putin and his imperialistic ambitions. Ukrainians have spoken out again and again saying that WE DON’T WANT THIS, and Putin keep shutting everyone up and calling it a peace operation. Instead cities are burning, and my family that is still there has grown used to the air raid sirens
I am from Crimea and am pro-Ukraine and think that some facts here are being dismissed as ‘Western propaganda’. News are biased, but not everything is propaganda. I do not have any defense for NATO. But I do think Ukraine has a right to sovereignty.
So which leftist viewpoint upholds the concept of a capitalist state’s right to sovereignty?
Anarchists and MLs alike should support the people of Ukraine and Russia in resisting occupation by either state as both care not for their war dead and wounded but only for control of resources and power.
Btw I don’t think you should be banned for arguing this, it is important we critically listen to the ppl most directly affected by this, while being careful not to uncritically absorb ultranationalist or capitalist propaganda.
Ukraine lost its right to sovereignty with the 2014 Maidan coup d’etat. The leaked phone call between Victoria Nuland and Pyatt tells us this. Yanukovich was forced to flee, Porochenko was never elected.
the Maidan revolution was a good thing, im v confused what you mean, we stood up and overthrew our corrupt president and our country is very proud of this. This is what the Russian people need to do. Putin has served too many terms, nearly my whole life. I don’t know where you live, but I’m sure if someone said that your contry lost its right to sovereignty, you too would disagree.
What the actual fuck? Elected Yanukovich was forced to flee, whereas Porochenko was never elected… you prefer some unelected puppet?
I’m not sure you, as a non-Ukrainian, get to decide the sovereignty status of Ukrainians.
No, I have not decided it. Victoria Nuland decided it over a phone call from USA. She did it in 2014 with Pyatt.